Alphonso Davies shames Owen Hargreaves.

[ted]

21 hours ago, Ed_S said:

I know for a fact that actions by senior CSA folks were a major factor in his turning his back on Canada. Some fucking suit enraged him with ridiculous threats when he turned down a U20 invite as he was just coming off a major injury. Being cut from the U17 team a couple of years earlier (along with Julian deGuzman and Mike Klukowski - arguably the most successful trio of that age group) didn't help either.

Oh FFS, this was bullshit then and it remains bullshit now. 

If you get cut form a youth team you work harder and fight for your spot. You prove your detractors wrong and become a better player and force them to select you. 

That's how soccer works and that is how the best nations win at the international level.

 

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What sort of signal does it send to a young Canadian player who holds a second passport when a guy that has never lived in Canada gets drafted in like that though? 

It says get better, practice more and you can EARN your spot over some guy with a tenuous connection to Canada who happens to be playing better than you at that moment.

 

[Rheo]

The bottom line on this according to the mob mentality element here is that if you don't play for Canada you're evil and deserve to burn in hell

Now I will go back to ignoring these threads lol.

[rightback]

28 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

So, just to clarify, the fact that OH chose to play for a country other than the one where he was born and raised (at least until he went to Germany to learn the skills that made him an elite player) is not part of the case against OH?

As far as I'm concerned, there are circumstances where it's OK to play for a different country than the one you're born and raised in, sure. 

[mrstepp817]

OH takes a ton of grief here....way more than DeGuzman has from what I can tell (although I've seen some lol)...can anyone enlighten a dumb Texan like myself as to the differences in the two?? I am sure there are some details I'm not aware of...

[jpg75]

3 hours ago, dsqpr said:

And the OH haterz had better start posting about how much they hate SA or they are just a bunch of hypocrites!

Nope, but if the Scots want to hate on him i'd understand where they're coming from.

[rightback]

1 minute ago, jpg75 said:

Nope, but if the Scots want to hate on him i'd understand where they're coming from.

The Scots I talked to just have a disgust for the people running their team.

[Blackdude]

Why isn't there a ********* screwed ********* thread ?

[Keegan]

I stilL can't believe Scotland passed on arfield.. it's like they're trying to prove something.  Imagine Canada never capping a guy who is a regular in mls? That still wouldn't compare to Scotland refusing an epl regular.. even Ireland or wales would call him up. 

At the Scotland match in march there was zero hate to arfield, just toward their own fa for letting him go. 

[theaub]

4 minutes ago, mrstepp817 said:

OH takes a ton of grief here....way more than DeGuzman has from what I can tell (although I've seen some lol)...can anyone enlighten a dumb Texan like myself as to the differences in the two?? I am sure there are some details I'm not aware of...

Well, a Canadian starting for Manchester United (of course "starting" or even "playing" may be a bit of a misnomer here) would've done more to legitimize Canadian soccer than 11 De Guzman's toiling away at Swansea.

However, the correct answer is everything contained in the link below.

https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2009/04/pm-visits-canadian-born-international-soccer-star-owen-hargreaves.html

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Why isn't there a ********* screwed ********* thread ?

Bret screwed Bret?

[BuzzAndSting]

I hate everyone who doesn't play for Canada and love everyone who does. Simple as that.

[rightback]

1 minute ago, dsqpr said:

So, what is your personal case against OH then, if not that?

The other thing I have seen mentioned is that he said he was going to play for Canada then changed his mind. Anything else?

Personally, if I had the good fortune to be able to represent my country in a sport, I'd consider it the proudest moment (except for my kids achievements, in case they ever read this comment) of my life. And if my contribution gave something worthwhile (like raising interest in the sport) back to the society that raised and educated me, that would be tremendous.

So when I see the likes of OH wipe his arse with that same opportunity that I would cherish, I feel some animosity towards him and don't approve of him being involved in any way with Canadian soccer. 

[beachesl]

It was more than simply choosing to play for another country. Lest we forget:

1. He promised to play for his country several times, publicly, to Canadian coaches, and to the CSA. An outright liar besides a traitor.

2. The same year he jumped to England, he promised to play for Wales because his mother happened to be born there, and even attended a Wales training camp,  

3. He not only was born in Canada, he learned to play football until his late formative years, until he was 16, in Canada. 

4. His attiude towards having been developed in Canada, his fake English accent, his negative comments when talking about Canadian soccer, and his refusal to even acknowledge the negative aspects of his choice. Coming at the particular time , his unequaled deceit  and duplicitousness was the personification of several generations of betrayal that was particularly sickening to the older fans like myself who had to suffer from years of the little Britain, little Italy, little Germany, etc syndrome while playing in, supporting, coaching, reffing and watching Canadian football. 

5. Perhaps more importantly, his country needed him when he abandoned the team. He could have made a substantive difference in WC qualifying, and perhaps more. 

I agree that we dwell too much on this, but some basic facts before I go off of even thinking of OH,  and just watch the matches. Equating the wh&re with any other player anywhere who chose to play for "another" country, not just for Canada, is completely ill-founded and disingenous.

The only thing coming close is the numbing justifications here of the MLS rules penalizing Canadian players, which in any other country would be the subject of national indignation and government action.  

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

So, your feelings towards OH are because he threw away an opportunity you would have cherished. Now to be fair to you, you are not really coming across as one of the psychotic haterz on here, but I certainly think that would be a very weak reason indeed to join their ranks!

I don't see anything wrong with a fan having contempt for a player who has done something the fan dislikes (although in this case your talk is cheap) but have some perspective!

You are posting 100% as the England fan boy you always insist on being on this board.

The same guy who gets his back up about anything, and anybody, that remotely infers that your country (the UK, obviously not Canada) could have any shite floating around its footie.

Just admit your obsessive biases, which have you waving this pathetic curly-headed Owen flag, and we can get on with the real purpose of your (edit, OUR) board.

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, beachesl said:

It was more than simply choosing to play for another country. Lest we forget:

1. He promised to play for his country several times, publicly, to Canadian coaches, and to the CSA. An outright liar besides a traitor.

2. The same year he jumped to England, he promised to play for Wales because his mother happened to be born there, and even attended a Wales training camp,  

3. He not only was born in Canada, he learned to play football until his late formative years, until he was 16, in Canada. 

4. His attiude towards having been developed in Canada, his fake English accent, his negative comments when talking about Canadian soccer, and his refusal to even acknowledge the negative aspects of his choice. Coming at the particular time , his unequaled deceit  and duplicitousness was the personification of several generations of betrayal that was particularly sickening to the older fans like myself who had to suffer from years of the little Britain, little Italy, little Germany, etc syndrome while playing in, supporting, coaching, reffing and watching Canadian football. 

5. Perhaps more importantly, his country needed him when he abandoned the team. He could have made a substantive difference in WC qualifying, and perhaps more. 

I agree that we dwell too much on this, but some basic facts before I go off of even thinking of OH,  and just watch the matches. Equating the wh&re with any other player anywhere who chose to play for "another" country, not just for Canada, is completely ill-founded and disingenous.

The only thing coming close is the numbing justifications here of the MLS rules penalizing Canadian players, which in any other country would be the subject of national indignation and government action.  

Thanks, terrible to have to rehash all these things to the fan-boys, but happens every now and then. Owen was a pathological liar, that fake accent and fake English-ness, when he was at Bayern, and his core dishonesty. Apart from generally being a flake, so spineless, he was not even loved by England fans, though they begrudedly recognized his worth after a while. 

I wonder if any of the guys defending him ever saw him even play for England. I mean, what losers, their hero from the couch. I did see him once for England, and an official match, btw.

No one denies he was a solid player, he was key in very key matches for Bayern (less for Manchester Utd) and, while his new nation did not do that well during his stint, he was often recognized as the best player on the field for them. In retrospect, one player may not have made the difference, because we are such dipshits we probably would have let him skip half his international assignments, we are so lame we can't even get the ones committed out. And clearly, one single player would not have been the game breaker for us. It may have just taken us up another level (making a HEX, for example).

But he is a disgusting person, and deserves no love, and deservedly should be shunned. The others who were equally dishonest and ungrateful, like Begovic, are also appalling (he may be worse in fact). De Guzman was a bit different, as he left age 12. People understood the reasons for Fernandes, because he was screwed over even into his 20s. Another who is also really ugly, sinfully, is Leroux, what a hag.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

And of course there are those who are too thick to even grasp the simple logic so they just insult the poster!

According to you, then, 95% of the people on this Canada board are thick and cannot understand simple logic. Just confirm that for us, before you go back home for the bank holiday.

 

 

 

 

[BrennanFan]

24 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

1. He changed his mind. And we can only speculate why. That does NOT make him a traitor!! Traitors get hanged!!

2. Canada to Wales at that time would have been a sideways move, not a step up. Which lends weight to the argument that he simply didn't want to play for Canada, possibly based on his dealings with the CSA. In the end it is clear that he chose the country that was best for his football career. Many players do that though.

3. Scott Arfield was born in Scotland and learned his football there. Yet he has now ditched them for Canada, presumably because he thinks that is best for his football career. Super Scottie Arfield!

4. Fake English accent?! You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel there. And the rest of your point 4 diatribe is just a pile of arm waving, foot stamping, cry baby, nonsense. By the way, I too am one of those fans to which you refer.

5. Every country always needs good players. And you clearly do not know what "disingenuous" means. I suggest you look it up so that you can use it correctly next time.

1. No, he lied.  There's a difference.  He was not genuine when he spoke and we know this bc of his actions at the time. 

2. Yes he chose selfishly. He put his bank account over his country that needed him.

3.  We've been over why Arfield is a completely different situation, you lose what little credibility you have by failing to grasp the difference.

4. He spoke with a fake English accent while in Germany before he ever lived in England. If you werent aware of that, just say so, but it is a fact obvious to everyone following his story at the time and was pointed out and reported in national media outlets that dont usually cover soccer.  How can you possibly not see that as another aspect of OH's disingenuous personality?

5. Some countries need good players more than others.  

[Califax]

Fuck I'm so sad I missed this thread popping off. Well done to all who quipped so marvelously. 

Someone please text me when the "Ballou Tabla Kicks Teal Bunbury in the dick" thread starts.

[beachesl]

52 minutes ago, Califax said:

Fuck I'm so sad I missed this thread popping off. Well done to all who quipped so marvelously. 

Someone please text me when the "Ballou Tabla Kicks Teal Bunbury in the dick" thread starts.

Haha, I totally agree with this sentiment, but the thread did not pop off, it was a unnecessary pop off by itself ( starting with the inflammatory title), and now I am ashamed to have been sucked into the vortex. (I just do not like clear history to be warped). All we need to wrap up this thread is to talk about hiring someone to put a curse on Sheffield United for their players' physical attacks on Iain Hume.

[Fussball_eh]

Is it time to forgive Owen Hargreaves?

 

Introduction:

 

Owen Lee Hargreaves was born in Calgary, on January 20, 1981. He is the youngest of three children and the only member of his family, who was born in Canada. His two brothers were born in Wales and England respectively. His mother is from Wales originally, while his father is from England. The family moved to Alberta in the eighties.

 

His father played as a midfielder for Bolton Wanderers in the English league, as well as the Calgary Kickers of the Canadian Soccer League. Both of his brothers also played soccer. Young Owen Hargreaves grew up watching mostly American sports like basketball, ice hockey and American Football. While he started playing soccer at the age of five, it is said he only started doing it seriously during his teens.  He played in a number of different positions, primarily though, in attack. He was given a trial for FC Bayern’s junior team at the tender age of 15, after a former FC Bayern Munich youth coach by the name of Harald Hoppe, spotted him. He impressed at this trial and joined Germany’s best soccer club in July of 1997.

 

Hargreaves quickly gained traction in Munich. German soccer legend Franz Beckenbauer once famously exclaimed: “When I see this boy with the ball my heart opens up”. Hargreaves played for the U-19 team for two and a half years before spending six months with the amateur team. His biggest success at that time, was reaching the final of the German Championship against Borussia Dortmund in 1998. Unfortunately, they lost after a penalty-shootout.

 

His days at Bayern Munich

At the beginning of the 2000/2001 seasons, on August 12^th, 2000, Hargreaves played his first Bundesliga game. In the game against Hertha BSC he was subbed on for Carsten Jancker in the 83^rd minute. A little while later, on September 16^th, he played his first game from the start against SpVgg Unterhaching. It was the beginning of a remarkably successful career in professional soccer. Hargreaves would, without a doubt, become the best Canadian to have ever played in the Bundesliga.

 

In his first season with Bayern, he won the Bundesliga title and arguably the highest honour in world football, the UEFA Champions League title. Hargreaves became the first ever Canadian to get a Champions League winner’s medal. What stood out in particular, was his showing against Real Madrid in the semi-final where he lit up the game with fine dribbles and passes against soccer icons of the likes of Roberto Carlos and Luis Figo.

 

In the 2001/2002 season, Hargreaves established himself as a starter in the Bayern team, racking up 46 appearances. The 2002/2003 season, was the first one in which Hargreaves suffered through several injuries. First he tore a thigh muscle, then a calf muscle and later he had adductor problems. Suffering through injuries became a common theme throughout his career. Despite several injuries and not playing as much as he would like to, he signed a contract extension at Bayern for another four years in October 2005.

In the 2006/07 season, Hargreaves broke his leg. He did manage to come back to play and win in the match against Real Madrid in the Champions League, before they lost to Milan and had to exit the tournament. As a result of finishing fourth in the Bundesliga, Bayern would not take part in Champions League soccer in the following season. It was then that he decided to leave Bayern for Manchester United of the Premier League. He signed a four-year contract there and was bought for a price that was thought to be a bargain of only 17 million pounds.

 

He had been remarkably successful at Bayern. He was considered a key player for the club and he had won the Bundesliga title in 2000/01, 2002/03, 2004/05 and 2005/2006. He also won the DFB-Pokal (German Cup) in 2002/03, 2004/05 and 2005/06. In addition, he won the DFB-Ligapokal in 2000. His biggest success, as mentioned before, was winning the UEFA Champions League in 2000/01. He also won the Intercontinental Cup against Boca Juniors in the fall of 2001.

 

Manchester United and an unglorious exit

His first season at Manchester United went very well. He won the Premier League, as well as the UEFA Champions League again. However, this was about the time when his body has had enough of competitive sports and when it was basically shutting down. Hargraves had a knee injury with patellar tendinitis problems that continued to get aggravated. His surgeon Richard Steadman stated that Hargreaves’s knees were in a worse state than any other he had come across in his 35 years experience. In his three remaining years at Manchester United, he had astonishingly few appearances with a total of five.  It was not entirely surprising that Alex Ferguson confirmed on May 22, 2011 that the club would not offer him a new contract. When the legendary Manchester United coach published his autobiography, he called Owen Hargreaves one of his worst signings at the club ever.

 

In a rather unusual turn of events, Hargreaves then decided to post YouTube videos of himself exercising to prove to potential clubs he still had the required fitness level for high-end soccer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMy-qBo0gbw . In a surprise announcement on August 31, 2011 Manchester City confirmed that they offered him a one-year deal, which he gladly took. In theory this would have allowed him to play Champions League soccer, but unfortunately he was left out of Manchester City’s CL squad. On his debut for City he scored a goal in a 2-0 victory over Birmingham City in the League Cup. However, what was a great beginning would not lead to the great heights that Hargreaves had previously achieved. Although City won the 2011/2012 title, he did not receive a winner’s medal, as he only appeared in one league match all season. It was not a shock when Manchester City did not renew his contract.

 

Hargreaves’ national team career

Although Hargreaves had been born in Canada, he had a Welsh mother and an English father, which gave him the choice of playing for one of three national teams. As a youngster he played regularly for the U21 of Wales, but he was later snatched up to play for England by U21 manager Howard Wilkinson, who called Hargreaves into the squad when he was only 19.

 

On August 15, 2001 the key moment came that a majority of Canadian soccer fans were never able to forgive. Owen Hargreaves made the decision to play for England and became cap-tied when he played his first match for the national team against Holland. It was simply unbearable for the long-suffering Canadian soccer fans, whose team had only qualified for the FIFA World Cup once, at the 1986 tournament held in Mexico. Fans simply could not believe that their messiah, the biggest hope for Canadian soccer in decades, had chosen to ‘betray’ his country and play for England instead. Interestingly, he became the only player to have played for England without having previously lived in the United Kingdom and only the second to have done so without having previously played in the English football league system.

 

It is probably with some satisfaction for the Canadian fans that he never achieved to win any major tournaments with England. He did however win the hearts and souls of the English public. After the 2002 World Cup in South Korea and Japan in which he got injured yet again at the time he stated: “The World Cup was a fabulous experience. The build up to the games, the actual tournament, and the huge interest displayed by the English public was pretty moving. I was impressed by the size and import of the tournament itself. My family in Canada, my friends in England; everyone was up for it and wishing me and the rest of the team all the best. The weeks spent preparing for the tournament and then the time in Japan and South Korea have been the biggest things in my fooballing career so far”. In addition, after the 2006 World Cup in Germany, he was voted as England’s best player of the tournament by the fans.

 

Canadian soccer fans’ reactions

Nevertheless, the Canadian fans could not forgive him Hargreaves for his decision to play for England. In 2010 the Vancouver Whitecapes allegedly courted him to play for them and a huge outcry on several fan sites throughout Canada occurred with fans demanding that he should never be signed by any of the three Canadian teams in the MLS. In the Voyageurs forum, the primary online mingling place for Canada’s fans and supporters did not allow you to spell out the word ‘Hargreaves’, instead the word gets displayed as ********** (Since the recent transistion to the new forum, this is no longer the case). This type of censorship is usually reserved for swear swords elsewhere on the internet.  Another indication of the hate that Canadian soccer fans have towards him is the nickname Whoregreaves that has emerged for him all over the place.

 

However, his decision has to be taken into context. He was the only member of his family, who had actually been born in Canada. His parents were of Welsh and English descent and even his brothers had been born in Great Britain. In addition, he left Canada for Europe as a teenager and was closer geographically to his two other nationalities: England and Wales. His choice was very rational and I find it easy to sympathize with it. He was very clear about this himself: “I wanted to play for England, one of the best and historic international teams in the world of football. I have always dreamed of playing in the Finals of the European and world championships”.  He is a player that had made a great name of himself in the German Bundesliga and he should make his Canadian country-men proud. He should be forgiven for making a choice that was perfectly reasonable, although it might have been heart-breaking at the time. I know that my stance is a very controversial one, but I believe that it is now time to forgive Owen Hargreaves for his decision, especially given his sad exit from professional sports that was caught way too short, due to his many injuries.

 

Not too long ago, it was written in the media that never considered playing in the lower leagues to continue his career.  Regarding this subject he has stated: “One thing I won’t consider is going down the leagues. I have played Champions League every year of my career so I am not doing that”.  Officially Owen Hargreaves was just taking a leave of absence of soccer for a year, but this more likely means he is retired. He is expected to continue his career in sports media or coaching.

[Joe MacCarthy]

18 minutes ago, Fussball_eh said:

Is it time to forgive Owen Hargreaves?

In a word, no!

[Acid-Tone]

two words: F*ck no!

[BrennanFan]

@Fussball_eh thats some serious revisionist history.  "He should make his Canadian countrymen proud" what in the hell is that? Please seek help.

I must say I'm shocked that anyone who purports to be a Canadian soccer supporter could have any time at all for Whoregreaves.  

 

[Bison44]

Why are we arguing over and over about someone who broke our hearts 16 years ago and hasn't played in 6-7??  Some of us dont even like saying OHs name, some of us seem to want to let him come over and swap spit with their sister.  WHy let this dominate the board for no good reason while we have an interesting Canadian team doing well in the gold cup??  

[Admin]

It's time to bring back the word replace feature.

Wasn't it ********** for years?