BC Soccer aiming to launch "Regional Tier 3 League"

[Cblake]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Glass City on twitter speculated that U-23 would be in MLS Next Pro and U-19 would be in L1BC.

But I don't think anything is official

That makes sense. The U23 team would really be the pro reserve team and the L1BC will be a academy team. 

[Watchmen]

I don't think the league is aiming to be U19. If the Whitecaps are thinking they'll just put their u19 team in it, they might be in trouble.

[rydermike]

TFC used to have their U19s in League1 Ontario and they did fine. Even this year, they had their U19 and U17 teams in the League1 Ontario short-season. They came 1st and 2nd.

Edited December 9, 2021 by rydermike

[Watchmen]

26 minutes ago, rydermike said:

TFC used to have their U19s in League1 Ontario and they did fine. Even this year, they had their U19 and U17 teams in the League1 Ontario short-season. They came 1st and 2nd.

Good to know. I'd seen the WFC u19 team in the FVSL once and it was a bit rough though I see they're currently 3rd in the league. Is there an age restriction on L1O?

[rydermike]

2 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Good to know. I'd seen the WFC u19 team in the FVSL once and it was a bit rough though I see they're currently 3rd in the league. Is there an age restriction on L1O?

No age restriction, L1O is all ages. 

[CDNFootballer]

New semi-pro soccer team coming to North Vancouver this spring

https://www.nsnews.com/local-sports/new-semi-pro-soccer-team-coming-to-north-vancouver-this-spring-4849270

"Altitude FC was recently announced as one of the seven founding member clubs of League1 BC, an elite semi-pro circuit that will begin play in May. The league is meant to fill a gap between amateur circuits such as the Vancouver Metro Soccer League and the top tier Canadian Premier League. Similar semi-pro leagues are already running in Ontario and Quebec.

The team will play at North Vancouver’s Kinsmen Park, with tickets sold at a modest price.

The team is scheduled for a 12-game regular season – six at home and six away – against the Vancouver Whitecaps Academy, the TSS Rovers, who play out of Burnaby’s Swangard Stadium; the UBC-affiliated Varsity FC, and clubs in Langley, Kamloops and Victoria."

[Big_M]

12 game schedule + saying that its a summer schedule so that it doesnt compete with youth and amateur leagues is not a good look...are you here for semi pro ball or to send out an all-star team of the amateur teams? Of course it was very difficult to get this league off the ground so we gotta give the benefit of the doubt

[ted]

2 hours ago, Big_M said:

12 game schedule + saying that its a summer schedule so that it doesnt compete with youth and amateur leagues is not a good look...are you here for semi pro ball or to send out an all-star team of the amateur teams? Of course it was very difficult to get this league off the ground so we gotta give the benefit of the doubt

So, this is what I said it would be, nothing more than the Pacific Coast League with a marketing budget and delusions of grandeur. Of course it's exactly what we need ATM so I'm not really complaining.

[Watchmen]

Yeah, this doesn't really seem like a proper L1 schedule. Year 1 is fine, but they'll need to expand it (hopefully with more teams) in future years.

[Unnamed Trialist]

League 1 Ontario had a 12-game schedule this year. 

In 2019, before Covid, a 15-game regular season, from May to mid-August; plus playoffs, quarters, semis and final single matches (correct?). It is still designed to allow university kids to come back and play, it's a short summer league. 

No need to diss the brand new BC League when at least they are doing something L1Ontario does not: each team plays each other home and away.

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

League 1 Ontario had a 12-game schedule this year. 

In 2019, before Covid, a 15-game regular season, from May to mid-August; plus playoffs, quarters, semis and final single matches (correct?). It is still designed to allow university kids to come back and play, it's a short summer league. 

No need to diss the brand new BC League when at least they are doing something L1Ontario does not: each team plays each other home and away.

Even if they can get to 10 teams and play an 18-match, home-and-away season between May and September, there's no way that the players won't return to their VMSL, FVSL, etc clubs for the winter season. They simply won't not play for the majority of the year. Therefore, it's always going to have an All-Stars feel unless they either move to a winter season or play a long enough season that their schedule overlaps with the traditional winter season so much that it makes it unfeasible for players to play both. Getting the best players below the fully-pro level to play year round, though, would be a fantastic result, one that could return BC to the pinnacle of player development in the country. As a province, our results, from a player development perspective, have been abysmal since the generation that won the Gold Cup in 2000.

[rydermike]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

No need to diss the brand new BC League when at least they are doing something L1Ontario does not: each team plays each other home and away.

I find it a bit ironic when you say don't diss L1BC, then proceed to diss L1O. It's not like L1O has a choice, with 22 teams, they can't hold a 42 game season (home/away) in 4 months. Although in 2020,with the East/West split they did do home/away for each division at least (well for the East they did, for the West with an extra team, they had to skip two return legs due to scheduling/covid shortened season dates). 

For the record, I agree with how both leagues (and the PLSQ too) currently schedule their number of matches given the number of teams in their respective divisions. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, rydermike said:

I find it a bit ironic when you say don't diss L1BC, then proceed to diss L1O. It's not like L1O has a choice, with 22 teams, they can't hold a 42 game season (home/away) in 4 months. Although in 2020,with the East/West split they did do home/away for each division at least (well for the East they did, for the West with an extra team, they had to skip two return legs due to scheduling/covid shortened season dates). 

For the record, I agree with how both leagues (and the PLSQ too) currently schedule their number of matches given the number of teams in their respective divisions. 

So you think saying a league has an unbalanced schedule is dissing them? Bit oversensitive, and trolling the BC League One thread besides.

Back on point: you can complain about the BC project being a summer league, but in Ontario and Québec, they are basically summer leagues. The difference, if they had any ambition at BC Soccer, who have been butt dragging for years (take their inability to convince the province to get in with a World Cup, amazingly useless), would be that we have the weather to play a long season. Making our League One into a legit D3. 

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So you think saying a league has an unbalanced schedule is dissing them? Bit oversensitive, and trolling the BC League One thread besides.

I don't think stating a league has an unbalanced schedule is dissing them. However, I don't know how the following is meant as anything but a build up/put down combo for L1BC (up) and L1O (down), devoid of context for L1O of course.

"No need to diss the brand new BC League when at least they are doing something L1Ontario does not: each team plays each other home and away."

This is implying that L1BC having a balanced schedule is a plus, and it is a negative that L1O does not have a balanced schedule. How virtuous of L1BC to only have 7 teams while L1O terribly has 22 teams in their league. That's horrible for soccer in Ontario obviously.

BTW - I of course am rooting for L1BC, but I had the same thoughts as @rydermikewhen I read UT's post. I just didn't have the energy to respond at the time, so I'm glad Ridermike did.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Kent said:

I don't think stating a league has an unbalanced schedule is dissing them. However, I don't know how the following is meant as anything but a build up/put down combo for L1BC (up) and L1O (down), devoid of context for L1O of course.

"No need to diss the brand new BC League when at least they are doing something L1Ontario does not: each team plays each other home and away."

This is implying that L1BC having a balanced schedule is a plus, and it is a negative that L1O does not have a balanced schedule. How virtuous of L1BC to only have 7 teams while L1O terribly has 22 teams in their league. That's horrible for soccer in Ontario obviously.

BTW - I of course am rooting for L1BC, but I had the same thoughts as @rydermikewhen I read UT's post. I just didn't have the energy to respond at the time, so I'm glad Ridermike did.

The thread's not about L1 Ontario and I don't care about it much either. I'm happy it "works". It's about what people are saying, negatively, about a league with a 12 match season. When it at least has a balanced schedule. And will play almost as many matches as L1O. In BC we're demanding. 

I appreciate you're not used to not being the Centre of the Universe but the ones decontextualising are you. For us L1O is a mere foil, a peripheral counterpoint, although I get it's hard for some to grasp that. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kent]

10 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The thread's not about L1 Ontario and I don't care about it much either. I'm happy it "works". It's about what people are saying, negatively, about a league with a 12 match season. When it at least has a balanced schedule. And will play almost as many matches as L1O. In BC we're demanding. 

I appreciate you're not used to not being the Centre of the Universe but the ones decontextualising are you. For us L1O is a mere foil, a peripheral counterpoint, although I get it's hard for some to grasp that. 

I will say that I haven't been a fan of L1O reducing their schedule. Their first season was actually very similar to the L1BC proposal. It was home and away, with the teams they had (9 teams, after the 10th team failed almost instantly), so a 16 game schedule. Then it went up to 22 games for a few years. Then it got reduced to 16 before the pandemic, then 15 this year.

Anyways, I think the most important thing is stability and growth. It's great that L1O has grown the number of teams, and it seems the teams are getting more ambitious as well. Hopefully L1BC can do something similar, or even if it stays 7 or 8 teams, as long as it advances players and maybe coaches to the next levels, that's fantastic.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 12/18/2021 at 6:02 AM, ted said:

So, this is what I said it would be, nothing more than the Pacific Coast League with a marketing budget and delusions of grandeur. Of course it's exactly what we need ATM so I'm not really complaining.

Will they even be able to attract all the best players from leagues like the VMSL or will it be the same old story of the mainstream of the soccer community largely ignoring the latest soccer association masterplan?

[MM3/MM2/MM]

2 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Will they even be able to attract all the best players from leagues like the VMSL or will it be the same old story of the mainstream of the soccer community largely ignoring the latest soccer association masterplan?

Sometimes it is the "mainstream of the soccer community" that is holding soccer back in Canada.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Will they even be able to attract all the best players from leagues like the VMSL or will it be the same old story of the mainstream of the soccer community largely ignoring the latest soccer association masterplan?

If they were able to conceive it from March to October then you'd have something resembling a proper semil-pro tier. 

I can understand a shorter season back east, but BC has this incredible possibility to be a full-length, or near, semi-pro league. In fact, as what happens in other sports thanks to the weather and facilities (rowing, say), BC has always been positioned to be a place where players optimise training in paths to excellence. Meaning there is really no excuse, except for a lack of vision from BC Soccer. BC has everything in its favour to be attracting guys from the rest of Canada into a D3 League One-type set-up, but only on one condition: a season at least half a year long.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

...but BC has this incredible possibility to be a full-length, or near, semi-pro league...

Is that not what the VMSL basically is close to being already complete with promotion and relegation so you need to succeed on the field of play to reach the top tier? Think it started off as an earlier soccer association masterplan from the 1970s that slowly morphed into what the mainstream of the soccer community was actually comfortable with.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Is that not what the VMSL basically is close to being already complete with promotion and relegation so you need to succeed on the field of play to reach the top tier? Think it started off as an earlier soccer association masterplan from the 1970s that slowly morphed into what the mainstream of the soccer community was actually comfortable with.

Okay, but what is the level? The fact is, it is not even the best quality of the existing amateur leagues in BC, as that would be the Pacific Coast Soccer League, I'd say. 8 teams last we looked, home and away, May to August, 14 matches. Highlanders included--so I'd say it the closest we had to a League One. 

If the VMSL holds up, then that is a nice league to feed into League One, but not the only one. 

If we look at the new L1 proposal, it more closely ties teams to university structures, so Rivers relies on Thompson Rivers University coaches, and Varsity has Mike Mosher, longtime UBC coach. Too bad the Mid-Island Mariners in Nanaimo, also with ties to Van Isle University, could not field a team (Merriman, assistant at Pacific, was from there, as was Blasco as a player).

So we have a bit of a mess, or crossovers, as we have not included U-Sports and then the lower CCAA, which is PacWest out here. 

That gives BC this soccer structure for adult men:

MLS: Whitecaps, then u-23s MLS and then a team in L1

CPL: Pacific and a future team in "Vancouver" but with no clear academy structure (boo)

L1BC: partially university kids, as well as some new teams we don't know what will do. Semi-pro, meaning they get paid something?

U-Sports: five teams, including UBC, Victoria, Trinity Western, UNBC and UBC Okanagan.

CCAA: 8 schools, but only 4 play soccer: Douglas, Vancouver Island, Capilano and Langara.

PCSL: Parallels to L1, with former coincidence of teams (Highlanders), or to PDL (TSS Rovers).

VMSL: the only one with proper promotion and relegation, but I would say at the lowest tier perhaps with PACWEST.

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

43 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Okay, but what is the level? The fact is, it is not even the best quality of the existing amateur leagues in BC, as that would be the Pacific Coast Soccer League, I'd say....

The PCSL has the highest status on paper but that doesn't mean it necessarily has had the best players. My understanding is most of the top players in lower mainland BC have usually given it a miss and have mainly focused on the VMSL's winter season format. We'll see if it's any different with L1BC or if it's the PCSL with a marketing budget and delusions of grandeur as described above.

In Ontario, the standard of a lot of of the latter day CSL that lost its sanctioning a few years back with the CSA was a joke compared to the best senior amateur teams that played in the Ontario Cup. That may be changing to a significant extent with L1O but they still have the same franchise format when there's no obvious reason why promotion and relegation couldn't be used in a similar way to the NPL in Australia.

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The PCSL has the highest status on paper but that doesn't mean it necessarily has had the best players. My understanding is most of the top players in lower mainland BC have usually given it a miss and have mainly focused on the VMSL's winter season format. We'll see if it's any different with L1BC or if it's the PCSL with a marketing budget and delusions of grandeur as described above.

In Ontario, the standard of a lot of of the latter day CSL that lost its sanctioning a few years back with the CSA was a joke compared to the best senior amateur teams that played in the Ontario Cup. That may be changing to a significant extent with L1O but they still have the same franchise format when there's no obvious reason why promotion and relegation couldn't be used in a similar way to the NPL in Australia.

You keep saying "delusions of grandeur" but what exactly do you think they're trying to build? They're not trying to overtake the CPL or MLS or anything. They're simply trying to build a better Div 3 league on the west coast that integrates in to the Canadian soccer pyramid better than the other leagues. They'll have a couple of key components to that - likely a better marketing budget (which is a good thing so I don't know why you seem to keep thinking it's a negative) and access to the Voyagers Cup. A possible Whitecaps vs BCL1 match up would put the spotlight on the players and league in a way that none of the other leagues you're talking about have access too.  And just as importantly, BCL1 is trying to work with the CSA and other leagues in a manner that the PCSL and VMSL simply have no interest in doing. Those leagues have no interest in bettering soccer in Canada - they're all too concerned with preserving their own little fiefdoms.

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

You keep saying "delusions of grandeur" but what exactly do you think they're trying to build? They're not trying to overtake the CPL or MLS or anything. They're simply trying to build a better Div 3 league on the west coast that integrates in to the Canadian soccer pyramid better than the other leagues. They'll have a couple of key components to that - likely a better marketing budget (which is a good thing so I don't know why you seem to keep thinking it's a negative) and access to the Voyagers Cup. A possible Whitecaps vs BCL1 match up would put the spotlight on the players and league in a way that none of the other leagues you're talking about have access too.  And just as importantly, BCL1 is trying to work with the CSA and other leagues in a manner that the PCSL and VMSL simply have no interest in doing. Those leagues have no interest in bettering soccer in Canada - they're all too concerned with preserving their own little fiefdoms.

I think the point, in part, by @Ozzie_the_parrotis that this is, so far, a modest proposal. It's a summer league with barely pro status (and I'd like to know how, or how much)

I'd add: it is really close to what PCSL was, in fact it is almost identical. Now we are not going to find out because PCSL is apparently inoperative, but not sure, perhaps was closed with Covid or before? League One will poach PCSL level players, some VMSL, some university, but still: I don't think the level will be a lot higher, though I hope I'm wrong. I've seen former and future pros play for PCSL. 

If L1 distills and filters all these feeder possibilities and the rosters are the best of what is out there, then fine. PCSL already did that in part.

The CSA could perfectly well have said a few years ago, great, let's let VMSL and PCSL do a winner's playoff and qualify a team for the Voyageurs Cup. It is merely arbitrary. Now we get a League One, and it is automatic.

What do teams in League One Ontario or in Québec pay?

Edited December 23, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think the point, in part, by @Ozzie_the_parrotis that this is, so far, a modest proposal. It's a summer league with barely pro status (and I'd like to know how, or how much)

I'd add: it is really close to what PCSL was, in fact it is almost identical. Now we are not going to find out because PCSL is apparently inoperative, but not sure, perhaps was closed with Covid or before? League One will poach PCSL level players, some VMSL, some university, but still: I don't think the level will be a lot higher, though I hope I'm wrong. I've seen former and future pros play for PCSL. 

If L1 distills and filters all these feeder possibilities and the rosters are the best of what is out there, then fine. PCSL already did that in part.

The CSA could perfectly well have said a few years ago, great, let's let VMSL and PCSL do a winner's playoff and qualify a team for the Voyageurs Cup. It is merely arbitrary. Now we get a League One, and it is automatic.

What do teams in League One Ontario or in Québec pay?

Oh, it's definitely a modest start. Won't disagree with that and to be a proper Div 3 I think they need to push towards what you've said - a longer season of roughly March/April to October. But I'm not going to criticize it in year one during a pandemic for starting smaller. 

The infighting between VISL, VMSL, and FVSL sounds ridiculous. The leagues were unable to put their differences aside to build something better. Clubs were given the option to join the new league but preferred to stay in their little clubs they already controlled. So, I have no issue with the BC soccer starting a new league from scratch rather than trying to deal with the politics of all these other leagues.