BC Soccer aiming to launch "Regional Tier 3 League"

[SthMelbRed]

2 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Oh, it's definitely a modest start. Won't disagree with that and to be a proper Div 3 I think they need to push towards what you've said - a longer season of roughly March/April to October. But I'm not going to criticize it in year one during a pandemic for starting smaller. 

The infighting between VISL, VMSL, and FVSL sounds ridiculous. The leagues were unable to put their differences aside to build something better. Clubs were given the option to join the new league but preferred to stay in their little clubs they already controlled. So, I have no issue with the BC soccer starting a new league from scratch rather than trying to deal with the politics of all these other leagues.

How many of the VISL, VMSL, and FVSL teams are actually clubs, though? Granted, it's been the best part of 20 years since I've lived in Vancouver, but my recollection from growing up there was that you had a lot of youth clubs for under 18s, then a bunch of men's teams with no associated juniors', women's, or reserve teams, or even proper home grounds with club rooms. I'd like to see every club at the top levels of the game in BC be mandated to run both junior and senior teams, with the ability to play the best kids up age groups, or even get called up to the senior teams when they're ready. Existing men's teams could partner with nearby local youth clubs in the short-term with a deadline for clubs to be fully integrated in order to be licensed to compete at the top levels.

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

How many of the VISL, VMSL, and FVSL teams are actually clubs, though? Granted, it's been the best part of 20 years since I've lived in Vancouver, but my recollection from growing up there was that you had a lot of youth clubs for under 18s, then a bunch of men's teams with no associated juniors', women's, or reserve teams, or even proper home grounds with club rooms. I'd like to see every club at the top levels of the game in BC be mandated to run both junior and senior teams, with the ability to play the best kids up age groups, or even get called up to the senior teams when they're ready. Existing men's teams could partner with nearby local youth clubs in the short-term with a deadline for clubs to be fully integrated in order to be licensed to compete at the top levels.

The League One proposal basically ignores all clubs with academies, any existing club with a deep youth academy. Totally unlike Ontario and Quebec. Perhaps they finally came to think that the game was being stonewalled by some of these clubs, but it is odd, considering BC Soccer has been lagging for at least 2 decades, maybe more, and pandering to this mess of leagues and set-ups, with results flowing into pro that have been only poor to below average for men (while much better to be true for the women).

Great guys, now you are getting on board. What happened?

As I said, the fact they were not able to lobby to get BC Place as a WC venue reflects very poorly on them. They can't get alongside or help the CPL project for Vancouver because they are manipulated (lobbied) by the Whitecaps, some say. They are finally talking about building a new soccer centre in Port Coquitlam, as recently reported, but with no committment to put enough stands in so a semi-pro team or even better CPL might play out there. 

[rydermike]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think the point, in part, by @Ozzie_the_parrotis that this is, so far, a modest proposal. It's a summer league with barely pro status (and I'd like to know how, or how much)

What do teams in League One Ontario or in Québec pay?

Most L1O players aren't paid and same will be true for L1BC (they are capped at six paid players). Heck, some teams will basically be fully amateur. Look at what Colin Elmes of TSS Rovers tweeted (in response to proposals for a fully pro women's league): They have no anticipated wage expense (not sure if that's for both L1BC teams or just women's, but probably both)

https://twitter.com/colinelmes/status/1473705772630659082

Edited December 23, 2021 by rydermike

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 minutes ago, rydermike said:

Most L1O players aren't paid and same will be true for L1BC (they are capped at six paid players). Heck, some teams will basically be fully amateur. Look at what Colin Elmes of TSS Rovers tweeted (in response to proposals for a fully pro women's league): They have no anticipated wage expense (not sure if that's for both L1BC teams or just women's, but probably both)

https://twitter.com/colinelmes/status/1473705772630659082

So why is it called semi-pro again? I'm talking about in Québec and Ontario.

I am not trying to be unrealistic, but semi-pro implies you are pro, but only partially. Meaning the player would have to do something else to complement his semi-pro income. Semi-pro, I guess, means train in the evening after work. 

It'd be more honest to say it is not pro in any way, shape or form. It is amateur, with a couple guys getting a gratuity. It is like Tier 6 in any of the major soccer nations, or maybe 7. 

[rydermike]

40 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So why is it called semi-pro again? I'm talking about in Québec and Ontario.

I am not trying to be unrealistic, but semi-pro implies you are pro, but only partially. Meaning the player would have to do something else to complement his semi-pro income. Semi-pro, I guess, means train in the evening after work. 

It'd be more honest to say it is not pro in any way, shape or form. It is amateur, with a couple guys getting a gratuity. It is like Tier 6 in any of the major soccer nations, or maybe 7. 

It's more "pro-am" than "semi-pro" given its a mixture of some paid players and completely amateur players. Argument could also be made that their "compensation" is having everything paid for them (i.e. transportation, other expenses). In reality, it's nothing different than USL League Two, a high-level amateur league, although there is the option to compensate some players a moderate amount.

[Big_M]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So why is it called semi-pro again? I'm talking about in Québec and Ontario.

I am not trying to be unrealistic, but semi-pro implies you are pro, but only partially. Meaning the player would have to do something else to complement his semi-pro income. Semi-pro, I guess, means train in the evening after work. 

It'd be more honest to say it is not pro in any way, shape or form. It is amateur, with a couple guys getting a gratuity. It is like Tier 6 in any of the major soccer nations, or maybe 7. 

The big point is that semi-pro can have a very different definition from country to country

In tier 4 of countries like Italy, Spain and Germany...where the league status could be non-pro, semi-pro or a mix of pro and semi-pro teams, players are paid

But when you take for example Quebec its very different because at the highest amateur level, players pay large amounts to be on the team (500-1000+ for the season). So what does semi-pro mean? You dont pay to play. Yes the level is higher but its still only two trainings per week so not super interesting. Very different from what is called semi-pro in other parts of the world...

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So why is it called semi-pro again? I'm talking about in Québec and Ontario...

All about image over substance and an ongoing obsession by soccer associations with trying to market the sport in a way that is more culturally accessible for Bob and Doug McKenzie types. That usually revolves around actively sidelining ethnic clubs run by recent immigrant communities that would dominate like they do in the NPL in Australia if you used promotion and relegation.

End result is Bob and Doug McKenzie still stick to hockey, baseball and the CFL but a significant portion of the core soccer community feels alienated and largely tunes out the latest masterplan pushed by the soccer associations and does its own thing. In the ground zero of this sort of approach in the GTA that leads to a team like York United which actually plays to a very high standard having a core home support in low three figures. Plenty of posters on here knew that was going to happen but people who aren't really from a core soccer background like Paul Beirne and Duane Rollins thought they knew better.

This keeps happening decade after decade. The only light at the end of the tunnel in recent times in terms of CSA and provincial soccer association sanctioned structures has been what has unfolded in Halifax.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 hours ago, Big_M said:

The big point is that semi-pro can have a very different definition from country to country

In tier 4 of countries like Italy, Spain and Germany...where the league status could be non-pro, semi-pro or a mix of pro and semi-pro teams, players are paid

But when you take for example Quebec its very different because at the highest amateur level, players pay large amounts to be on the team (500-1000+ for the season). So what does semi-pro mean? You dont pay to play. Yes the level is higher but its still only two trainings per week so not super interesting. Very different from what is called semi-pro in other parts of the world...

2 trainings a week is for veteran leagues or pickup. My son played 3rd tier u-19 in Spain and had 4 training sessions, M-Th and then play weekends. We talked to a club that was 5th tier, with a B team in 7th, but trained twice, but they used it as a strategy to bring in amateurs with quality who couldn't commit to more. And if you wanted you could add a session with the other team.

Still, I suspect it's a question of cost. In Canada, compared to most elsewhere, the cost to run a team is high. 

Our players subsidize the teams they play for. That this should be erased in CPL is part of what the union is about. 

[Watchmen]

 

[Blue and White Army]

On 1/15/2022 at 5:52 PM, Watchmen said:

 

Glad to see supporter-ownership at TSS Rovers, although I would have preferred it to be membership-based rather than equity-based, and in the ideal world it would be majority fan-owned.

[Watchmen]

A little more in depth discussion of it:

https://aftn.ca/tss-rovers-looking-to-build-real-partnership-with-local-community-as-share-issue-affords-opportunity-to-own-part-of-new-league1-bc-sides/

[ted]

14 hours ago, Watchmen said:

A little more in depth discussion of it:

https://aftn.ca/tss-rovers-looking-to-build-real-partnership-with-local-community-as-share-issue-affords-opportunity-to-own-part-of-new-league1-bc-sides/

This is fantastic, Rovers and their supporters have been a class act for years.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Any player signings announced by teams?

[ted]

5 hours ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

Any player signings announced by teams?

At this level you will be lucky to see a game-day team sheet at the game.

[MM3/MM2/MM]

I was hoping they would be like L1O and PLSQ .  You can find game reports and player stats online.  Even player signings are getting press.

[Ruffian]

45 minutes ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

I was hoping they would be like L1O and PLSQ .  You can find game reports and player stats online.  Even player signings are getting press.

Lets hope there is a @Rocket Robin clone out West!

[Watchmen]

 

[Watchmen]

On 2/9/2022 at 1:18 PM, Ruffian said:

Lets hope there is a @Rocket Robin clone out West!

I would keep an eye on https://aftn.ca/ . They cover the VMSL, FVSL, and VISL, and they've covered TSS in the past. They'll be covering TSS again this year, and I would anticipate you'll see some coverage of the other teams as well.

[Watchmen]

 

[Blue and White Army]

37 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

 

Women's schedule, men's schedule, and single-page PDF for printing.

Regular season runs May 22 to July 24, so barely over two months. Playoff finals on August 1.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Blue and White Army

[MM3/MM2/MM]

1 hour ago, Blue and White Army said:

Women's schedule, men's schedule, and single-page PDF for printing.

Regular season runs May 22 to July 24, so barely over two months. Playoff finals on August 1.

Hopefully that is just for one season, at this level 16 games, three months should be the minimum. 

[ted]

2 hours ago, MM3/MM2/MM said:

Hopefully that is just for one season, at this level 16 games, three months should be the minimum. 

Hopefully someday.

 

I will repeat myself, at this point it's just the PCSL with a different name and personnel. 

[Cblake]

On 2/18/2022 at 5:19 PM, ted said:

Hopefully someday.

 

I will repeat myself, at this point it's just the PCSL with a different name and personnel. 

How many teams in the PCSL this year,? I was always curious how it operated with teams in both Canada and the US?

[ted]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

How many teams in the PCSL this year,? I was always curious how it operated with teams in both Canada and the US?

No idea, I haven't followed them for years nor have they had any American teams for years I believe.

In the 1990's they had teams in Seattle and Portland as well as the Interior of BC, the Lower Mainland and Victoria. 

[Cblake]

1 hour ago, ted said:

No idea, I haven't followed them for years nor have they had any American teams for years I believe.

In the 1990's they had teams in Seattle and Portland as well as the Interior of BC, the Lower Mainland and Victoria. 

I was always curious with the PCSL already in existence why it simply did not serve the role BC L1 is? From what I gather some of the standards were not there but not sure.