redhat Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Why are we all afraid to say HIS name; Voldemort, Voldemort, Voldemort!! Not afraid. We just refuse to acknowledge anything his non-Canadian a** has done. Anyone who turns their back on Canada deserves that treatment. That includes a certain U20 keeper, a certain player emotionally-attached to the Czech Republic, a KC striker who's not called up to the US roster, etc. BTW, the thread is about Junior ... Not Voldemort, beetlejuice, etc. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califax Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 BTW, the thread is about Junior ... Not Voldemort, beetlejuice, etc. ;-) Hey... a little love for "Candyman" as well please... Surely, he's on the podium with Voldemort and Beetlejuice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Wow, this thread is a year old now. Year 1: The Wait Year 2: The Commitment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I wrote this last week: Contract in hand, Junior Hoilett must decide his international future I figure some of you guys would be interested in the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I disagree with you Gator. I'll bet dollars to donuts he's signed with an English club simply to remain in England and close to Three Lions. Whether or not he impresses at QPR, the fact he's staying in England leads me to believe he has one aim: Engerland. Or Money? Shed loads of ...Money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Or Money? Shed loads of ...Money? I think he is more after the money than anything else. Why would he even hold talks with BM if he was set on three lions? I believe he would take the England call if it came but he would have to wait years no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoGreen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Put yourself in Hoilett's shoes.. There is no 'incentive' to play for Canada unless they qualify for the World Cup. By incentive I do not mean as a player, post-playing career. Being an England international even with a few caps versus a Canadian international... it's that simple. Declaring his future now only benefits Canada in achieving their goal of qualifying for Brazil 2014. Playing for Canada unfortunately due to the extreme travel demands and risk of injury doesn't benefit a PL player with options and slightly realistic hopes of playing for countries such as England. The only way I believe he will choose Canada is if we qualify for the World Cup, and he's good enough to wait until they qualify for 2014 or at least the Hex round. Until then the speculation in this thread should be put to rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Put yourself in Hoilett's shoes.. There is no 'incentive' to play for Canada unless they qualify for the World Cup. By incentive I do not mean as a player, post-playing career. Being an England international even with a few caps versus a Canadian international... it's that simple. Declaring his future now only benefits Canada in achieving their goal of qualifying for Brazil 2014. Playing for Canada unfortunately due to the extreme travel demands and risk of injury doesn't benefit a PL player with options and slightly realistic hopes of playing for countries such as England. The only way I believe he will choose Canada is if we qualify for the World Cup, and he's good enough to wait until they qualify for 2014 or at least the Hex round. Until then the speculation in this thread should be put to rest. 'incentive's can be very different for different people. I can understand that it may not benefit his professional career greatly to play for Canada, but to act like that is the only thing worth considering is laughable. Being an England international will probably mean more money, as contracts in the EPL are pretty inflated for England internationals (see Henderson, Carrol, Downing). Thing is hes signed a long term deal, so he's probably not that likely to benefit that much from making the England squad, although he potentially could if he blows up more as a player in the next couple seasons. I'd imagine playing and leading a Country you have a strong bond to and where many of your friends and family and yourself still live is worth a lot to many players. Most high level players will value achievements, being in a Canadian team to break through and make a WC and or just improving the level of play in Canada would be a great achievement and I'd imagine be very fulfilling for many. So if we want to take the completely narcissistic player view then yes, there is no incentive for playing for Canada but many players have character and a desire to be a foundation on a winning team, not just reap the benefits from a team. Bottom line is Hoilett has an opportunity to have a great pro career, and he has taken a big step towards that, he has a lot of money locked up, his international future is more about character, desire and loyalty as a person and athlete. Even with all the speculation towards England I'm fairly sure he is not eligible under their own FA rules, and they did'nt break it for a guy like Arteta who they desperately needed I don't see why they would break that rule for Hoilett. *if you mean by post playing career that its somewhat way more prestigious or lucrative to be a former England international with a few callups vs a possible legend and program changer for Canada I think you are nuts. There are tons of England players who come and go, and one born and raised outside of England unless he performs heroics to win the WC will not be a legend ever. Whereas he has a great chance to be a Canadian legend at a time that soccer is really taking off in this country. Edited July 31, 2012 by villus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brethers Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Put yourself in Hoilett's shoes.. There is no 'incentive' to play for Canada unless they qualify for the World Cup. By incentive I do not mean as a player, post-playing career. Being an England international even with a few caps versus a Canadian international... it's that simple. Declaring his future now only benefits Canada in achieving their goal of qualifying for Brazil 2014. Playing for Canada unfortunately due to the extreme travel demands and risk of injury doesn't benefit a PL player with options and slightly realistic hopes of playing for countries such as England. The only way I believe he will choose Canada is if we qualify for the World Cup, and he's good enough to wait until they qualify for 2014 or at least the Hex round. Until then the speculation in this thread should be put to rest. I think playing for your country of birth would be the bets feeling ever, although I appreciate there are quite a few players who are overly ambitious and so try and play for the best country they can. Surely if Hoilett played for us he'd earn an absolute boatload in sponsorships, corporate deals and ads? He'd be the poster boy for Canada football, companies in Canada would use him as he would be the most recognisable face. Then there's the satisfaction of being the guy who helped propel your country to the world cup (obviously it's a not a cert that he would do this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeelaw Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 The only way I believe he will choose Canada is if we qualify for the World Cup, and he's good enough to wait until they qualify for 2014 or at least the Hex round. If he doesn't jump in this round then I don't want him in the hex round. Rather have a guy there who helped us. Even if that means more of a struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Put yourself in Hoilett's shoes.. There is no 'incentive' to play for Canada unless they qualify for the World Cup. I think not having to lie to yourself every time you pull on the English jersey is pretty good incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I think not having to lie to yourself every time you pull on the English jersey is pretty good incentive. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Some people just don't really care about things like nationality, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoGreen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I think playing for your country of birth would be the bets feeling ever, although I appreciate there are quite a few players who are overly ambitious and so try and play for the best country they can. Surely if Hoilett played for us he'd earn an absolute boatload in sponsorships, corporate deals and ads? He'd be the poster boy for Canada football, companies in Canada would use him as he would be the most recognisable face. Then there's the satisfaction of being the guy who helped propel your country to the world cup (obviously it's a not a cert that he would do this). I agree. But obviously he doesn't feel the same way is my point. But to be honest not trying to be controversial when I say this but are you serious about boatload in sponsorships? Maybe I am not in the know on this particular aspect of Canadian football, but who is our poster boy now? DeRosario? DeGuzman? are they getting the 'boatloads' sponsorships? As for the satisfaction part, depends on the player, if he felt that way he would've committed a long time ago so clearly he doesn't the excuses about having stability at club level although valid is irrelevant, you either want to suit up for Canada, don't or are waiting for the opportune time to make a decision for your own benefit. Hoilett's in category #3. Personally I feel Simeon is a much better player and in the Premier League I'd rather be talking about his time with Norwich until Hoilett decides to commit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoGreen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) 'incentive's can be very different for different people. I can understand that it may not benefit his professional career greatly to play for Canada, but to act like that is the only thing worth considering is laughable. Being an England international will probably mean more money, as contracts in the EPL are pretty inflated for England internationals (see Henderson, Carrol, Downing). Thing is hes signed a long term deal, so he's probably not that likely to benefit that much from making the England squad, although he potentially could if he blows up more as a player in the next couple seasons. I'd imagine playing and leading a Country you have a strong bond to and where many of your friends and family and yourself still live is worth a lot to many players. Most high level players will value achievements, being in a Canadian team to break through and make a WC and or just improving the level of play in Canada would be a great achievement and I'd imagine be very fulfilling for many. So if we want to take the completely narcissistic player view then yes, there is no incentive for playing for Canada but many players have character and a desire to be a foundation on a winning team, not just reap the benefits from a team. Bottom line is Hoilett has an opportunity to have a great pro career, and he has taken a big step towards that, he has a lot of money locked up, his international future is more about character, desire and loyalty as a person and athlete. Even with all the speculation towards England I'm fairly sure he is not eligible under their own FA rules, and they did'nt break it for a guy like Arteta who they desperately needed I don't see why they would break that rule for Hoilett. *if you mean by post playing career that its somewhat way more prestigious or lucrative to be a former England international with a few callups vs a possible legend and program changer for Canada I think you are nuts. There are tons of England players who come and go, and one born and raised outside of England unless he performs heroics to win the WC will not be a legend ever. Whereas he has a great chance to be a Canadian legend at a time that soccer is really taking off in this country. I think you misunderstood my post. It's put yourself in Hoilett's shoes. Not this is what I think about Canadian football. Now that his club career is settled the announcement should come soon that he's ready to play for Canada right? But we haven't heard that yet. Reason is because he in all likelihood is not considering the things maybe others would such as yourself. I hear you on leading a country you have a strong bond on, but obviously if Hoilett felt the same way we should be expecting an announcement on his international future with Canada as we are near qualifying for the final round of World Cup qualifiers. Like I said in an earlier post, if there were all of these amazing benefits to representing Canada, why do we constantly lose players to other countries? (DeGuzman, Begovic, **********, Hoilett... the list goes on) It needs to set in that the amazing benefits we always speak of are either not necessarily reality or potential players just don't see them. As for post playing career, yes it is more prestigous and/or lucrative to be a former England international. Even here in our own country, you'll be surprised. In terms of jobs, recognition and respect, I'd confidently say being an England international with a few callups versus a possible Canadian legend and program changer which is not a certainty is looked at more highly. To be honest, Hoilett would be an amazing addition to a Canadian squad, but to act like one player is going to all of sudden boost Canadian chances at international glory and that he has the ability to change Canadian soccer is a bit too optimistic in my opinion. But then again if that's how you feel maybe that's why you don't understand Hoilett's decision not to commit to Canada just yet, maybe he's not as optimistic perhaps? Edited July 31, 2012 by GoGreen spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoGreen Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If he doesn't jump in this round then I don't want him in the hex round. Rather have a guy there who helped us. Even if that means more of a struggle. 100% agree. But most of the Voyageurs forums don't, which is why this thread is nearing 90+ pages. Most countries regardless of how much help they need don't spend time on players who aren't committed to the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If he doesn't jump in this round then I don't want him in the hex round. Rather have a guy there who helped us. Even if that means more of a struggle. I'd actually be fine with this. However, I would definitely NOT be cool with him trying to play in the World Cup if he's a no-show for the Hex. The Hex is 10 big games (with the potential for another 2 after). Not 6 like previous rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If he shows up if we make it to the WC I would give him a spot, play him as a sub in one game then bench him the rest of the tourney. I'd wash the slate clean after the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sose Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If he shows up if we make it to the WC I would give him a spot, play him as a sub in one game then bench him the rest of the tourney. I'd wash the slate clean after the WC. Holger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If he shows up if we make it to the WC I would give him a spot, play him as a sub in one game then bench him the rest of the tourney. I'd wash the slate clean after the WC. If, by some miracle, Canada actually manages to qualify for the World Cup the occasion will be too immense for us to use a roster spot for spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 hahaha. you'd bench one of our most talented players to teach them a lesson, at the world cup no less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Its not a roster spot for spite. We are not that deep and WC rosters are very big, the guys at the bottom of the depth chart probably won't sniff the field. The guys who get us there deserve to play, if it was a valid reason that he does'nt come out before the WC then I would include him as a normal player but if hes holding out to cherry pick a spot and reap the benefits then I would rather not play him. If after all this about his career and after numerous coaches approaching,he still does'nt show up for us, but does when we qualify for the WC then yes I would pick and bench him without some compelling story why this was the case. It sends a message to the team, and to all the future Canadian players that want to sit on the fence and cherry pick the program, can you imagine how many more players we will avoid doing what so many have done to us in the past? Our direct performance at the WC may go down slightly, but its still arguable because he won't be that integrated into the team anyways, and he will have his chance to represent Canada and do the dirty work just like every other player, only after the WC. No thank you I'd rather not, kowtow to self absorbed mercenaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 At some point we have to stop being the desperate under valued girl at the dance, and take control of our program allowing players to leave us as the last resort. You can smell desperation from a mile away, not saying to turn guys down just saying to make them earn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 If he shows up if we make it to the WC I would give him a spot, play him as a sub in one game then bench him the rest of the tourney. I'd wash the slate clean after the WC. I understand your point, but I wonder how the other players would feel? For many it would be there only chance at the big dance, and to not have one of your most talented players on the field for a "lesson" would likely piss them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I understand your point, but I wonder how the other players would feel? For many it would be there only chance at the big dance, and to not have one of your most talented players on the field for a "lesson" would likely piss them off. Or maybe not? Who knows? Maybe it's more of a pissoff to them to bench a guy that actually worked hard GETTING them there in favor of a guy that cherry picked. Maybe the guy that has to ride the pine so hoilett can play...maybe HE gets pissed off. Maybe he would have every right to be angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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