Argentina - Canada May 24

[clobban]

Thanks for saving me the typing Ed. Although I admired Simpson's aggressiveness. The most disappointing thing for me were the amateurish turnovers of possession. The Argentines were probably laughing at us.

Agreed. We were obviously outclassed in every way, as is to be expected, but my main problem was our giveaways. In some situations they weren't forcing bad passes, we were just making bad passes. When it looked like we could build something we just gave it away instead. I don't know if it was just our guys being intimated, but that was the most disappointing part of the game for sure.

[gator]

We were thoroughly schooled by a team full of stars, looking to impress their fans and more importantly their coach. Didn't expect much from this frankly as we were missing a few key players. Disappointed in the form of Klukowski and Friend, and Simpson to a degree. Time to move on from the 2000 Gold Cup vets there Mr Hart.

Simpson really disappointed me but it was always going to be a very tough go! Simpson had a decent run in the first half and had Friend making a run at goal and manages to hook a cross ten yards behind him! Friend did have one good chance in the second half but the keeper did well to stop! Once again Friend was very islolated and not receiving any service, I'm not sure what more he can do on his own!

[smartlikefox]

Thanks for saving me the typing Ed. Although I admired Simpson's aggressiveness. The most disappointing thing for me were the amateurish turnovers of possession. The Argentines were probably laughing at us.

This is what disappointed me the most as well. I was expecting a lopsided loss, especially with the players we were missing, but the fact that the guys could string together 3-4 passes without giving it away was frustrating. They had very poor vision and made bad decisions with the ball all game.

[Trillium]

I do not want to say it looked worse live then on TV as have not had the courage to watch it again on video....

That said Onstad should not play again ... he was slow athletically and mentally reflected a lot of problem not thinking fast enough when challenged with a situation.

In general our players are slow to make decisions on the ball, when an argentine got a ball he knew where it was to go and who would be there to recieve it, what is very very clear is that this team from argentina on this day did exactly what the u20 s did in Ottawa ... tested the ball on the left .. then opened the right for penetration and a cross, they were not complex but played with control, speed mental and physical.

Can we adjust to this ?

Of course we can, we should get faster mentally and hopefully that will help us be faster in a physical sense as we wont start one step behind.

We played all players behind the ball for about 20 minutes then the mental discipline started to fade and we got opened up.

All that said....great experience in a great stadium against a great team.

One thing for the future is we need to get some way to be properly seated in one group in away stadia ..even if its in cage, by spreading out seats out .. we had no real presence as visitors in BA.

Who ever is going to act as a lead with the CSA needs to work on the full package of issues supporters have both for home and away games, this has to be a serious issue for the V's going forward.

On to Venezuela ... and the mountains.

[Free kick]

In general our players are slow to make decisions on the ball, when an argentine got a ball he knew where it was to go and who would be there to recieve it, what is very very clear is that this team from argentina on this day did exactly what the u20 s did in Ottawa ... tested the ball on the left .. then opened the right for penetration and a cross, they were not complex but played with control, speed mental and physical.

Keep in mind that Argentna won 4 of the last 7 U20 world cup titles

2009 Winner: Ghana

2007 Winner: Argentina

2005 Winner: Argentina

2003 Winner: Brazil

2001 Winner: Argentina

1999 Winner: Spain

1997 Winner: Argentina

Hence teams of that pedigree possess those abilities.

[Whither Canada]

The most disappointing thing for me were the amateurish turnovers of possession. The Argentines were probably laughing at us.

I am dismayed that we are still, unbelievably, at a point where we simply don't have the ball skills to compete at a world class level. A handful of our players do, it's true, but half of them do not and that is embarrassing. We'll continue to be miles behind until we address that basic requirement.

[jpg75]

Onstad broke the record for most appearances by a keeper for the MNT. His 57 caps are now 1 more than Craig Forrest.

[montrealjuventus]

Onstad broke the record for most appearances by a keeper for the MNT. His 57 caps are now 1 more than Craig Forrest.

who cares! the guy is old and should not have been in goal. he costed the CNMT so many games(important ones) before and they call him to give him another cap! that is unreal by the csa. it is still run by people that don't care. i would have rather had another goalie make those mistakes and say he is young or something. not an old man that is way too slow and that didn't give us a hand in the past years in winning any games. if he was washed up vs Jamiaca in toronto in WCQ, what is he doing 2 years later vs a much tougher opponent. i just don't get it.

i am not saying it was his fault in argentina by all means. we would have taken 4 or 5 with or without him, but there is no purpose. just like stalteri on the pitch! no purpose, because he will still get ripped on the wing, like any other young player!

[Trillium]

Keep in mind that Argentna won 4 of the last 7 U20 world cup titles

2009 Winner: Ghana

2007 Winner: Argentina

2005 Winner: Argentina

2003 Winner: Brazil

2001 Winner: Argentina

1999 Winner: Spain

1997 Winner: Argentina

Hence teams of that pedigree possess those abilities.

What needs to be asked is why not simply break down the Argentine method and adopt it.... as the national pattern, right now its a catch as catch can from u12 up.... different systems and formations and frankly our players dont learn to manage one method well and fast .. i.e. mentally fast.

I would hazard a guess damn few of the players in our youth provincial or national teams can write down on a sheet of paper the system the coach has, and there role in different situations.

Not enough toss out a ball and hope we have to start a real systemic system, perhaps the deep thinkers at the CSA can address it and actually write out the system they want played by young players.. and no dont just say possision or long ball or what ever other crap i have read for years ... .write out a position by position descripiton of the challenges and responses.

Or do we not have the ability to do that ?

[Juby]

edit: not responding to trillium

I don't necessarily disagree but I think alot of people are being a little harsh, the criticism towards the csa and some should fall on hart (not that I'm terribly concerned) is right where it should go for the selections but it's not like you should expect these guys to turn down caps, what I'm saying is; saying their no longer good enough is harsh enough (and fair) on good lads who are proud to play for us, we shouldn't talk about them like their bums. That said, I agree, I think onstad, stalteri and hastings should be done with the nats (maybe regular minutes at a club could get stalteri back in), I still think Hainault should still be around considering his age and yes, skill, the most disconcerting thing about him is he still seems 'error prone', he needs to read the game, better, faster, and more consistently (soccer IQ?).

[Mr.Impact]

edit: not responding to trillium

I don't necessarily disagree but I think alot of people are being a little harsh, the criticism towards the csa and some should fall on hart (not that I'm terribly concerned) is right where it should go for the selections but it's not like you should expect these guys to turn down caps, what I'm saying is; saying their no longer good enough is harsh enough (and fair) on good lads who are proud to play for us, we shouldn't talk about them like their bums. That said, I agree, I think onstad, stalteri and hastings should be done with the nats (maybe regular minutes at a club could get stalteri back in), I still think Hainault should still be around considering his age and yes, skill, the most disconcerting thing about him is he still seems 'error prone', he needs to read the game, better, faster, and more consistently (soccer IQ?).

Juby: I don't blame the players for accepting the caps, by all means they've rendered great services for their country in the past. I have issue with the fact that this country hasn't evolved in the last 25 years, heck you can argue that it has regressed, and that within itself, is cause for worry. As a supporter of the CNMT since 1984, I don't accept the direction this program is going, and yesterday has done nothing to curb my enthusiasm.

[jpg75]

who cares! the guy is old and should not have been in goal. he costed the CNMT so many games(important ones) before and they call him to give him another cap! that is unreal by the csa. it is still run by people that don't care. i would have rather had another goalie make those mistakes and say he is young or something. not an old man that is way too slow and that didn't give us a hand in the past years in winning any games. if he was washed up vs Jamiaca in toronto in WCQ, what is he doing 2 years later vs a much tougher opponent. i just don't get it.

i am not saying it was his fault in argentina by all means. we would have taken 4 or 5 with or without him, but there is no purpose. just like stalteri on the pitch! no purpose, because he will still get ripped on the wing, like any other young player!

Dude relax, i'm just stating a fact i read in a CSA press release. I'm not saying it justifies including him in the squad.

[gator]

who cares! the guy is old and should not have been in goal. he costed the CNMT so many games(important ones) before and they call him to give him another cap! that is unreal by the csa. it is still run by people that don't care. i would have rather had another goalie make those mistakes and say he is young or something. not an old man that is way too slow and that didn't give us a hand in the past years in winning any games. if he was washed up vs Jamiaca in toronto in WCQ, what is he doing 2 years later vs a much tougher opponent. i just don't get it.

i am not saying it was his fault in argentina by all means. we would have taken 4 or 5 with or without him, but there is no purpose. just like stalteri on the pitch! no purpose, because he will still get ripped on the wing, like any other young player!

A little harsh and maybe a tad disrespectful but I mostly agree with you, we have to move on and start building the next team! Hopefully that was just a good send off for these guys, they've represented the country well!

[ag futbol]

I doubt we will play to many CONCACAF sides that will close us down like that in our third.

That the thing about Argentina I've always found so impressive. They press ridiculously hard in the attacking third to get the ball back. Really makes it a tough game for teams on the short end of things.

[BearcatSA]

We certainly couldn't match them for athleticism and pace let alone technique and footballing IQ. They ran faster, they executed techique faster, they anticipated faster. The chasm in class last evening was Grand Canyon-esque.

Could anyone provide me with a good link to the match stats?

[Cheeta]

Not making excuses but it has to be said that the fact Stephan Hart took a very mixed squad of players on little more than a pair of practices into BA has to have played a huge negative roll in what the lads were able to bring to the pitch.

For a side which was always going to have to rely upon on-field organization and understanding to mount anything resembling a firm challenge that sort of preparation odviously won't do.

A lot of the static off-ball play we saw, or what seemed like the too often ability of the Argies to catch us in possession, or hesitance in choosing defending targets, or poorly leading passes, blah, blah, blah, could be simply undone by something resembling on-field familiarity.

For Canada it's that same old boogeyman.

Again, not making excuses but we're being a bit tough on the lads I think. Yeah, sure. Even with a few weeks of proper prep the score line most likely would have been the same but sure as **** Maradona's boys would had to have worked a Hell of a lot harder to achieve it.

[BearcatSA]

^I don't disagree with your points here. In order for the CMNT to succeed it's going to need more of club style cohesiveness and that certainly was going to happen in B.A (and with the changes in personnel, won't likely happen in Venezuela either). However, regardless of their lack of familiarity as a group the central midfield trio were simply overrun by way better players.

[Grizzly]

Also, the spanish commentators over here were calling Imhof, De Guzman all night. Pretty damn stupid considering that he played here in Spain for 3 years.

Well DeGuzman and Imhof have such similar hairstyles that the mistake is understandable!

[Martyr]

Not making excuses but it has to be said that the fact Stephan Hart took a very mixed squad of players on little more than a pair of practices into BA has to have played a huge negative roll in what the lads were able to bring to the pitch.

For a side which was always going to have to rely upon on-field organization and understanding to mount anything resembling a firm challenge that sort of preparation odviously won't do.

It looks to me that Hart used the little time he had to work on what to do without the ball - which was to concede possession and sit back. They didn't ever expect to have the ball and weren't sure what to do with it when they did get it. Hopefully Hart can work a basic attacking pattern of play into the side in the next couple of days. It will be difficult with the changes in player personal.

Canada is not incapable of player quick one-touch and two-touch stuff. We saw it under Hart in the 2007 Gold Cup and we saw it against Columbia in the Gold Cup final in 2000. Perhaps those examples are few and far between but it has happened. I'm willing to give Hart the benefit of the doubt right now.

[El Hombre]

Canada is not incapable of player quick one-touch and two-touch stuff. We saw it under Hart in the 2007 Gold Cup and we saw it against Columbia in the Gold Cup final in 2000. Perhaps those examples are few and far between but it has happened. I'm willing to give Hart the benefit of the doubt right now.

Did you not see the pressure game that Argentina was playing? They were all over our guys, sometimes two or three at once, as soon as we had the ball. Far better teams than us would've struggled against that. There's no way we faced anything akin to that in the 2007 or 2000 GC.

Take it for what it was: a learning experience. Now, most of the team knows that they can't dwell on the ball and their decisions have to be faster. I would keep that game tape around and show it at every camp to show the guys what we need to do to compete at the highest level. Decisions have to be made faster, support has to be better, chances have to be taken when they arise, and moves that may work with your club team will not necessarily work here.

I also find it funny that montrealjuventus seems to think he would be happier with one of the kids in goal. Don't forget that we had a keeper that hasn't played a league game for a poor Scottish 1st division team and another one who just recently started getting a few league games for a 2nd division French team. No disrespect to them, but they are both young and I doubt getting shelled by a team like Argentina would do either of them any good and I guarantee the result would've been much worse, not entirely due directly to their ability but more due to how veterans like Onstad react to going down 3-0 than do young players generally. I was happy they played the wily old veteran and I think he was the best option available to us at the time. I seriously doubt you'd come back here after losing 8-0 to Argentina and say "Well, at least we played the kids."

[JamboAl]

I don't think any criticism of Hart is warranted. We were up against it from the start. We didn't lose because of the choice of keeper, we didn't lose because we were sitting too deep, we didn't lose because we had players out injured. We lost because we are not as good as we'd like to think and the Argentinians are better than people, including me, probably give them credit for. Just look at the Di Maria goal. Picked up the poor ball from Hainault, ran at our defense with pace, and then hit a shot with the outside of his left foot that our guys would only try at training.

I expect better in Venezuela but even then I don't expect us to win because of the heat and lack of 1st team regulars on our side. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

[beachesl]

One question: does anyone know who the two Canadians were in the stands? One of them had a mexican wrestling mask on. Made me laugh. .

aCTUALLY, THERE WERE A HUNDRED OR SO cANADIANS AROUND THE STAND, MOST JUST QUIET BYSTANDERS

The guy in the white mask was Voyageur Moldy who sat on the north endzone side above the big Canadian FLAG. He works at the embassy in Lima Peru, and the guy in the red jersey was a colleague in the same embassy.

[marktci]

I think it's pretty cool that I saw two of the Argentine goalscorers (DiMaria and Aguero) and the keeper in Toronto in 2007. It reminds me cool it was for Canada to host that tournament and how lucky I was to be in a position to see a good part of it live.

[theaub]

I was on a plane during the match, and I phoned my house when I got home to get someone to check livescore from me and they say "oh it was 2-2." So I got all excited until they realized that was the Argentina/France U-21 score.

Stupid false hope

[Martyr]

Did you not see the pressure game that Argentina was playing? They were all over our guys, sometimes two or three at once, as soon as we had the ball. Far better teams than us would've struggled against that. There's no way we faced anything akin to that in the 2007 or 2000 GC.

Take it for what it was: a learning experience. Now, most of the team knows that they can't dwell on the ball and their decisions have to be faster. I would keep that game tape around and show it at every camp to show the guys what we need to do to compete at the highest level. Decisions have to be made faster, support has to be better, chances have to be taken when they arise, and moves that may work with your club team will not necessarily work here.

I didn't intend to give the impression that I was coming down hard on Hart. I was basically trying to say that Hart did the best he could under the circumstances and that I hope he can build a little bit on what he was trying to before the game against Venezuela. I was also trying to make the point that we have played nice football before, so we should be able to do it again. I just hope you are right and we really do learn from this.