2024 Voyageurs Cup

[narduch]

The Vancouver Whitecaps are the defending Champions.

Over the next month we should find out the last 2 remaining spots.

Victoria Highlanders have qualified through League 1 BC.

League 1 Ontario is down to 2 teams. Ontario will be sending a 1st time rep.

The situation in Ligue 1 Quebec. Not exactly sure why it doesn't start until October.

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by narduch

[Raven]

FYI - 2023 Ligue1 Québec regular season Champion qualifies for the Voyageurs Cup. The “playoffs” are just a cup competition after the regular season.

 

[narduch]

18 minutes ago, Raven said:

FYI - 2023 Ligue1 Québec regular season Champion qualifies for the Voyageurs Cup. The “playoffs” are just a cup competition after the regular season.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

Saint-Laurent seem to have it locked down.

I believe that is Kone's former club.

That would also be a new participant 

[Watchmen]

Will be interested to see if Victoria ops to host. Whitecaps donated funding to help support future L1BC hosts, but I'm curious if the interest is there.

[Rocket Robin]

My post match audio interview with Simcoe County Rovers CEO Peter Raco after their win last night over Scrosoppi FC to win the League1 Ontario Men's Premier Division Championship for 2023. Plans for next year, Canadian Championship etc.

http://www.rocketrobinsoccerintoronto.com/reports23/23l1o086.htm  

[red card]

 

[RJB]

I suspect this idea is unpopular, but I wonder if the time has come for the three Canadian teams that are in the American MLS to participate in the US Open Cup.  The oft cited example of Welsh teams playing in England participate in the FA cup and not the Welsh cup, so the standard could be argued that they should play in the cup based in the country of their league. 

Whereas the benefit of temporary interest in the Voyageurs cup is real, it's also real  MLS is the beneficiary of the champions league spot, not the CPL. 

[Bison44]

NAH, leave them in our cup.  Let Blainville and Vaughn dream of knocking off FORGE and Pacific, let Calgary and Halifax salivate at the chance to knock off Montreal and TFC.  Throwing our MLS squads in against lower tier american clubs does what for us?? They are the biggest clubs in canada, let them go play the lower league clubs up here, foster rivalries up here bring some street cred to a CPL club hosting an MLS side.  We have to think long term..slowly building it up here at home, not sending them deeper into the US system.  

[phil03]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

NAH, leave them in our cup.  Let Blainville and Vaughn dream of knocking off FORGE and Pacific, let Calgary and Halifax salivate at the chance to knock off Montreal and TFC.  Throwing our MLS squads in against lower tier american clubs does what for us?? They are the biggest clubs in canada, let them go play the lower league clubs up here, foster rivalries up here bring some street cred to a CPL club hosting an MLS side.  We have to think long term..slowly building it up here at home, not sending them deeper into the US system.  

This, plus honestly it isn't like it had worked all that well for Wales and Cymru Premier either... Currently Cymru Premier has anemic attendance with, I'd argue, not that strong of a pipeline as well not that much of a working relationship with the clubs in the English pyramid either. Wales as a whole hasn't done anything in Europe since the teams in the English pyramid have represented it. 

I like how things are going on our end far better: MLS clubs have become the best customers of CPL players in transfers as well as the best source of loanee players, the former having played a crucial role in showing that CPL players can take the next steps, and the experience of playing against the MLS clubs has been good for both attendance as well as awareness and to prepare CPL teams for CONCACAF Soccer. The CPL has two spots already, which is enough to give its clubs some opportunity to test their mettle in continental Soccer, and we still have one of the MLS clubs there to give the country a better chance at having one of its clubs make a run (I would have preferred two through the Canadian Championship instead of one but the current situation isn't unfair). 

On top of that, I'd argue there is a fairness aspect to consider here. Wales' places in Europe being given to Cymru Premier is simply a product of the UEFA's coefficient system, something that was unavoidable due to how things are done in Europe now. Things are different in CONCACAF: Canada as a Soccer country, not the Canadian pyramid, has three places and probably has some leeway as to what to do with it. In those conditions kicking the MLS clubs out would be an active decision to take something away from them (the opportunity to qualify in the Concacaf Champions Cup/League through the Canadian Championship and to compete for a trophy they all have history with) when they have done nothing wrong and have done their best to build good working relationships with CPL clubs. In a sense, it would be tantamount to punish them for having existed before the CPL and building their business and sporting models accordingly.

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by phil03

[Watchmen]

One day a CPL side will win the Voyageurs Cup. That achievement would be rendered a little bit less meaningful if they did it because the MLS sides were removed. 

Montreal in USL winning it over TFC (and the Whitecaps being one thrown match away from doing the same thing) is one of the great moments in the tournament's history.

[Kingston]

11 hours ago, Watchmen said:

One day a CPL side will win the Voyageurs Cup. That achievement would be rendered a little bit less meaningful if they did it because the MLS sides were removed. 

I'd go even farther than that.  Without the MLS teams, the V-Cup would become just some CPL cup tournament that runs concurrently with the regular season.  To me the interleague aspect (including the L1 teams even if they rarely win games) is the best part of the V-Cup.  It's all our Canadian teams thrown together and have at it.

[RS]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:39 PM, RJB said:

I suspect this idea is unpopular, but I wonder if the time has come for the three Canadian teams that are in the American MLS to participate in the US Open Cup.  The oft cited example of Welsh teams playing in England participate in the FA cup and not the Welsh cup, so the standard could be argued that they should play in the cup based in the country of their league. 

Whereas the benefit of temporary interest in the Voyageurs cup is real, it's also real  MLS is the beneficiary of the champions league spot, not the CPL. 

It's unpopular because it's an idiotic idea.

Do you want to completely devalue the Voyageurs Cup? Your proposal is exactly how to do it.

[Ansem]

4 hours ago, RS said:

Do you want to completely devalue the Voyageurs Cup?

Soccer Canada already excels at doing that already

 

Quote

It's unpopular because it's an idiotic idea.

Kind of rude when he provided a valid example using ironically the same argument to justify those 3 staying in MLS. I think that was a fair question/remark.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Ansem

[RJB]

7 hours ago, RS said:

It's unpopular because it's an idiotic idea.

Do you want to completely devalue the Voyageurs Cup? Your proposal is exactly how to do it.

Sheesh, just an idea.  I guess you're against it? 

I'm in the minority I get it, but I consider these three teams to be American teams in Canadian cities.  I think it's unfair that MLS/US Soccer benefits from a Canadian spot.  I don't want to get into an argument - that I'll likely lose, I understand - but just thought I'd gauge just how much of a loner I am with this thinking.  

I'm thinking a big loner.

[Ansem]

16 minutes ago, RJB said:

Sheesh, just an idea.  I guess you're against it? 

I'm in the minority I get it, but I consider these three teams to be American teams in Canadian cities.  I think it's unfair that MLS/US Soccer benefits from a Canadian spot.  I don't want to get into an argument - that I'll likely lose, I understand - but just thought I'd gauge just how much of a loner I am with this thinking.  

I'm thinking a big loner.

I share the sentiment about the double dipping, others do as well

[phil03]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

Sheesh, just an idea.  I guess you're against it? 

I'm in the minority I get it, but I consider these three teams to be American teams in Canadian cities.  I think it's unfair that MLS/US Soccer benefits from a Canadian spot.  I don't want to get into an argument - that I'll likely lose, I understand - but just thought I'd gauge just how much of a loner I am with this thinking.  

I'm thinking a big loner.

I agree it was a bit short and not deserved for just floating the idea on your part. It's still worth mentioning that it is positively tame compared to what others of your general train of thought have launched on posters disagreeing with them in other threads but we should always strive to keep things civil and it wasn't good someone was short with you. 

That being said, it is kinda natural that people won't react very positively to their favorite clubs being depicted as American clubs. These people are as proud to be Canadians as you are, the people working for their clubs are in strong majority Canadians, its Canadians who fill the stands, its Canadians who are trained at their academies, several of their Canadian players played a key part in getting us back to the World Cup and when they play the Canadian national anthem is sung.

On a personal note, as a not-all-that-nationalist French-Canadian fan of the Impact I freely admit that having the one club in the country that is doing the bulk of the work of getting us, who do represent 25% of the country, involved in club Soccer being called an American club doesn't sit well with me. To be clear, I don't accuse anyone of bigotry here but I would say the CPL would need to make some very serious strides toward bilingualism before accusing the Impact of being an American club isn't kinda vexating for us culturally...

Like, if you believe these clubs should be forced to play in CPL, or at least not allowed in the Canadian Championship, that's fine. I very strongly disagree and believe it would be a disastrous decision as well as potentially an illegal one (to bring back the Welsh example, their federation did lose a case when they tried to force some pre-existent clubs to play in their pyramid so its at least theoretically possible an attempt to force MLS clubs it could run afoul of Canadian courts. I'll leave people who know more about business law than me to determine how likely this is) but that's just me also being entitled to my opinion. However, I'd be better if there is a nuance between merely believing that and stating like you do, that these aren't Canadian clubs. That is simply unfair to everything these clubs have done for the Canadian game.

The other thing is, as alluded to above, you are very much not alone in your train of thought. The subject has come up from a vocal minority of posters where you wouldn't think it would be that relevant but somehow it weaseled its way in and has often led to... not the most healthy of discussions in several instances. That isn't on you, of course, but it probably leads to a degree ''oh no, not this again!'' from several posters.

Random and broad suggestion for everyone: maybe we should have an actual thread somewhere that is the designated spot for the subject? That way anyone who do feel like discussing whether the MLS clubs should be allowed to stay in MLS and compete in the Canadian Championship on a given can go do that there without the subject spilling all over the place.

Edited November 8, 2023 by phil03

[Shway]

I rather see those MLS teams join the CPL to validate the league, which would subsequently do what you are asking @RJB. 

I understand we are years away from that, but it's all good...I can still dream. 

As MLS continues to expand, each Canadian MLS club will slowly be an after thought as they will likely have 1 CCC spot to fight for. 

[Kingston]

21 hours ago, RJB said:

I'm in the minority I get it, but I consider these three teams to be American teams in Canadian cities. 

They are definitely Canadian teams in a US-based league.  You are, of course, entitled to hold a different opinion even if it is wrong. 

[Watchmen]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:55 PM, RJB said:

Sheesh, just an idea.  I guess you're against it? 

I'm in the minority I get it, but I consider these three teams to be American teams in Canadian cities.  I think it's unfair that MLS/US Soccer benefits from a Canadian spot.  I don't want to get into an argument - that I'll likely lose, I understand - but just thought I'd gauge just how much of a loner I am with this thinking.  

I'm thinking a big loner.

I think the general (but certainly not universal) sentiment is that 1 MLS team from a major market plus 2 CPL sides in the CCC is better for Canadian soccer than 3 CPL sides.  And that the 3 MLS sides potentially visiting the CPL teams/markets during the Voyagers Cup drives more interest for those markets than if the same teams were in the CPL. 

Pacific beating the Whitecaps was bigger than Pacific beating Vancouver FC.

[narduch]

Wrong thread...

Edited December 2, 2023 by narduch

[Kingston]

This will be the last year with only three L1 teams.

[themodelcitizen]

Be nice to see the prelims moved up to May to accommodate the L1C teams that rely on Uni kids. Heck throw in either FC Manitoba or Thunder Bay at that point (either whoever finishes higher in their division or wins on head-to-head the year before)

[Watchmen]

On 12/12/2023 at 12:26 PM, themodelcitizen said:

Be nice to see the prelims moved up to May to accommodate the L1C teams that rely on Uni kids. Heck throw in either FC Manitoba or Thunder Bay at that point (either whoever finishes higher in their division or wins on head-to-head the year before)

No. Tell the L1 clubs to stop relying on university players.

[themodelcitizen]

6 hours ago, Watchmen said:

No. Tell the L1 clubs to stop relying on university players.

Um. Why? Don't we want those kids playing at the highest level available in the summer? I'm guessing a lot of them are back from uni for a few months living at home rent-free. If not for, say, L1O, they'd be working somewhere FT while playing on a buddy's team in the Peel Halton district men's league. Sounds great right. There's a reason Dino Rossi recognized the need to accommodate teams that rely on those players when scheduling the playoffs

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Think this had more to do with soccer politics than anything else. The top university players could have been playing in PDL (or a Canadian analogue of it) separate from the top provincial leagues (whether that be amateur or "pro-am"). How do the other players involved in a League One benefit from having a shortened season to accomodate the university crowd? This is a huge issue in lower mainland BC in particular where the main soccer season has traditionally been over the winter months.