Kent Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, MtlMario said: CPL commish said there are no changes for our championship. The CPL commish said CPL teams are still participating in our championship. He didn't speak for the Canadian MLS teams. As far as I am aware, there hasn't been anything explicitly saying Canadian MLS teams will continue to participate, but at this point I would assume they will. MtlMario 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) I won't speak for fans of Toronto and Vancouver but the Impact fanbase has a genuine attachment for the Voyageurs Cup. Its the club pulling of an upset in the very first edition of the Canadian Championship, and the subsequent run we had in CONCACAF, which really allowed the club to break out of purely niche status and into mainstream status with the media. French-speaking media where full of op-eds from Soccer reporters going ''I used not to take them seriously but they have now done enough for me to jump-in the bandwagon!'' These were the games which made the club strong enough to barge its way into an hesitant MLS before the door closed on more Canadian applicants. They also made the rivalry with TFC... More broadly, its also the Canadian Championship's spot which allowed us to go into runs in CONCACAF, including reaching the final once. The club would push back quite forcefully if the MLS, or anyone else, was to try to take them out of the tournament. 11 hours ago, Kent said: As far as I am aware, there hasn't been anything explicitly saying Canadian MLS teams will continue to participate, but at this point I would assume they will. This. At this point there has been no indication that the statu quo, the MLS clubs participating while being quite willing to do so and the MLS not having any objection, has changed. Hell, if anything the fact that the Canadian Championship was not mentioned in any ways throughout the process speak volume in and off itself and is quite reassuring IMO... Until further notice its an issue that is purely internal to American Soccer. Edited December 20, 2023 by phil03 NVsoccer, Kent and masster 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 US Soccer showing some spine - it just denied MLS proposal to replace their first team with MLS Next Pro. Hopefully, Canada show some spine when planning the V Cup going forward longlugan, masster, narduch and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Is USL still doing pro rel? If the MLS just leaves the competition a pro rel system within USL would benefit the competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Think we'll see MLS allow more Next Pro call ups for the Open Cup. Which should have just been the plan all along. Shway, masster and Mihairokov 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) I think the MLS should just buy the USL. Create pro rel but the only way a team can get promoted in to the MLS is if they pay an expansion. If they don't they stay put and the next team who has gets promoted Just checking the USL site and you could see how the USL can be viewed a thorn in the side of the MLS. They've got some good markets and just signed a nice media deal with CBS Edited December 21, 2023 by SpursFlu Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 How strong us USL (financially and on the field)? This could be a boon for them to get a club into the Champions League and then from there you hope they can do some damage. Maybe they can even get Div 1 status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, RJB said: How strong us USL (financially and on the field)? This could be a boon for them to get a club into the Champions League and then from there you hope they can do some damage. Maybe they can even get Div 1 status? Not sure. They just had another club fold this week Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 17 hours ago, Watchmen said: Think we'll see MLS allow more Next Pro call ups for the Open Cup. Which should have just been the plan all along. MLS fucked up royally by making the statement they made. Majority of the teams already have two separate teams, owned by the same owners in a "separate league" - which is stupid. All they need to do is increase the roster sizes of MLS clubs from 30-45. In those spots designate them as "Next Pro" or whatever and the players get paid less than the reserve minimum salary. This way they stop having to use those stupid 5 day contracts for academy players when they need them on a MLS roster, and they wouldn't need to play a "different" team in the cup competition but rotate the same squad. MLS next pro is an academy league with some overaged players. narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 57 minutes ago, Shway said: All they need to do is increase the roster sizes of MLS clubs from 30-45. In those spots designate them as "Next Pro" or whatever and the players get paid less than the reserve minimum salary. I believe this runs afoul of the CBA and the MLSPA won't allow it. At the very least, the MLSPA would fight it tooth and nail, because it would be setting a precedent that MLS players can be paid less than the established minimum. 57 minutes ago, Shway said: This way they stop having to use those stupid 5 day contracts for academy players when they need them on a MLS roster, and they wouldn't need to play a "different" team in the cup competition but rotate the same squad. As noted, the existence of the CBA and MLSPA likely requires this kind of situation if players are to be added to MLS rosters for any reason. There's nothing stopping MLS from expanding their rosters by even 4-5 spots to handle the increased load of fixtures, of course. But it all has to follow the CBA, and there's no way they'd give the player's association a free "win" of more jobs/membership without getting something in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 1 hour ago, narduch said: Not sure. They just had another club fold this week But 3 expansion teams. Probably about 10 expansion teams thru their 3 divisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 5 hours ago, RJB said: How strong us USL (financially and on the field)? This could be a boon for them to get a club into the Champions League and then from there you hope they can do some damage. Maybe they can even get Div 1 status? It varies a lot from team to team. Some are really solid and others will probably fold by the end of the season. Attendance ranges from 14 000 for the top teams to a few hundred for the bottom teams. On the field, it's obviously hard to quantify, but I'd say the average is somewhere between the CPL and MLS. They will never get D1 status. Watchmen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) What's D1 status? Is that like the Sheriff badge my daughter got in the goodie bag? Edited December 21, 2023 by SpursFlu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingston Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, SpursFlu said: What's D1 status? Is that like the Sheriff badge my daughter got in the goodie bag? The status means being officially designated as the top league in a country by that country's Soccer Association. In theory there could be more than one D1 league in a country but I'm not aware of any countries that have more than one full D1 league. (A handful, like Canada, have teams playing in more than one D1 league because they have some teams in cross-border leagues and some in fully domestic leagues.) Being designated D1 is more than a goodie bag treat because the vast majority of the continental tournament slots for a given country are usually allocated to teams from a country's D1 league. (In England, for example, the EPL gets five continental slots with only one slot - the FA Cup winner - even open for non-D1 teams to try for.) If the USL got D1 status in the US, teams would presumably be eligible for the Leagues Cup and have their league winner get a CONCACAF spot instead of everything going to MLS teams. Edited December 22, 2023 by Kingston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Kingston said: (In England, for example, the EPL gets five continental slots with only one slot - the FA Cup winner - even open for non-D1 teams to try for.) England gets 7 slots and 2 are open to non-D1 teams (FA Cup and League Cup). 3 hours ago, Kingston said: If the USL got D1 status in the US, teams would presumably be eligible for the Leagues Cup and have their league winner get a CONCACAF spot instead of everything going to MLS teams. I would not think the USL would be eligible for the Leagues Cup, as that's a deal between MLS and Liga MX (with CONCACAF's blessing). They would be eligible for all the Champions Cup spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 League1 BC is eligible for Champions Cup thru Voyageurs Cup NVsoccer and narduch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 29 Author Share Posted January 29 (edited) Kinda wild this isn't set up yet. Edited January 30 by narduch Kent, nfitz and K Edgar 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 2 hours ago, narduch said: Kinda wild this is set up yet. Honestly, that's just ridiculous. The pre-set games already make it feel a bit bush league and the bye for Forge as well as the CPL clubs as the automatic hosts in the first round is essentially an undisguised advantage given to some clubs over others that is irreconcilable with a serious top competition between all professional and the top semi-professional clubs in Canada. Byes should be determined either randomly or based on previous results in the competition and who host should be determined randomly in ALL instances. Honestly, the whole thing reek of CPL owners essentially weaponizing their troubles with OneSoccer to ask for undue advantages in the competition that is key to keeping our whole Soccer system together. One get the sense the only reason they didn't ask for Cavalry to be given the other bye is that it would have been just a bit too on the nose... The fan of the Impact in me feel we have been done dirty, the fan of Athletico Ottawa in me want my club to have a fair shot instead of being given every advantage and the fan of Canadian soccer in me is just embarassed... To the CPL owners: come on, I have my criticisms but you are better then this! EDIT: and honestly some of the match ups... York United being sent to play Simcoe Rovers and VFC playing Victoria Highlanders instead of Pacific FC, yep totally about minimizing travel and not just giving the two CPL clubs with less fans an hopefully easy win in the CanChamp... Edited January 30 by phil03 NVsoccer, Kingston and narduch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 17 minutes ago, phil03 said: Honestly, that's just ridiculous. The pre-set games remove a lot of serious to the whole competition and the bye for Forge as well as the CPL as the automatic host in the first round is essentially an undisguised advantage given to some clubs over others that is irreconcilable with a fair top competition between all professional and the top semi-professional clubs in Canada. Byes should be determined either randomly or based on previous results in the competition and who host should be determined randomly in ALL instances. Honestly, the whole thing reek of essentially weaponizing their troubles with OneSoccer to ask for undue advantages in the competition that is key to keeping our whole Soccer system together. One get the sense the only reason they didn't ask for Cavalry to be given the other bye is that it would have been just a bit too on the nose... 1-Let's not pretend that we had a real draw to begin with as match ups were already heavily regional for those reasons 2-Where's your outrage at MLS clubs disagreeing with starting later to allow everyone to have the chance to host and 2 legged match ups as of round 2? Let's be real here, they are salty because they view the V Cup as a formality that needs to be put out of the way for the league cup and a quick CCL berth This is not perfect but that's already an improvement to last year's farce of a tournament and the "gifting" of the CCL berth to TFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Ansem said: 1-Let's not pretend that we had a real draw to begin with as match ups were already heavily regional for those reasons 2-Where's your outrage at MLS clubs disagreeing with starting later to allow everyone to have the chance to host and 2 legged match ups as of round 2? Let's be real here, they are salty because they view the V Cup as a formality that needs to be put out of the way for the league cup and a quick CCL berth III. This is not perfect but that's already an improvement to last year's farce of a tournament and the "gifting" of the CCL berth to TFC I- There is a decent balance between taking geography into account while still having a basic tournament format where luck of the draw played a role. The previous format had it. II- I wouldn't be against a two-legged match ups and I would note that nowhere it is said that this key to the MLS opposition... Moreover, the tournament has been ok in past years without a two-legged second round so I am not buying the idea that not wanting to accommodate a shift toward that (if it is indeed what is going on) is in any way equivalent to advocating for the utterly ridiculous stuff that made the most of the CPL's proposal. I would also disagree that the tournament is disrespected in the way you describe, at least by my MLS club. For us its a key moment of our season and piece of our history. We wouldn't be the club we are today without winning it in 2008 and we remembered that. III- The only farce IMO is what is proposed here, and as for TFC being given the spot, that was a product of the pandemic and the least bad option available in tragic circumstances. Thanks to the sanitary measures in place at the border it would have been literally impossible for CPL and League1 clubs to play both the CCL and their regular season so the options were either to give it to the most successful Canadian MLS club that year (TFC) or to forfeit our spot in CCL in 2021. Sure, the later would have been fair in the abstract but what good would it have done anyone? Edited January 30 by phil03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Last year tournament was drafted by MLS, where was your outrage then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Just now, Ansem said: Last year tournament was drafted by MLS, where was your outrage then? That is debatable, but even if it was true at no point did the MLS team ask that they automatically get one or both byes going forward because they are playing at a higher level or that they got to always host no matter what... Ergo, there was no outrage because, even if I can understand the frustration with when I started and don't care much for the LeaguesCup myself, nothing the MLS clubs ever asked for in the tournament has been outrageous. The same was true of the CPL clubs, until now. Ansem and Kingston 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 5 minutes ago, phil03 said: That is debatable, but even if it was true at no point did the MLS team ask that they automatically get one or both byes going forward because they are playing at a higher level or that they got to always host no matter what... Ergo, there was no outrage because, even if I can understand the frustration with when I started and don't care much for the LeaguesCup myself, nothing the MLS clubs ever asked for in the tournament has been outrageous. The same was true of the CPL clubs, until now. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Took a look at the CPL reddit and there does seem to be a strong majority of people bashing the proposal as essentially ridiculous and giving their clubs advantage they don't want: If nothing else I'd argue it shows it is perfectly possible to be card carrying member of the league and still disaprove of it for the same reasons then I expressed above. Kingston and Ansem 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihairokov Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 All due respect but the CPL reddit is no more indicative of any real trend in public opinion than this place is. Ansem and narduch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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