CPL 2023 Season Attendance

[jonovision]

8 minutes ago, ted said:

So no away fans travelled between Calgary and Edmonton or Hamilton and York? I find that hard to believe.

I have to imagine that there will have been some traveling support, though Edmonton's support was small so not likely to have many travelers. But when you play each other 4 or 5 times a year, the novelty of the derby rivalry wears off pretty quickly. I expect the same will be reflected in crowd #s for Pacific-Vancouver FC matches soon enough.

[Kent]

1 hour ago, ted said:

So no away fans travelled between Calgary and Edmonton or Hamilton and York? I find that hard to believe.

I'm a York fan and I did see some Forge fans at a York home game last season. I don't know how many though, but it would be closer to 30 than to 300 which means it's a rounding error amount. The derby I think is a smaller factor than things like the weather, the day of the week, or if there is anything else going on that day.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

These things grow organically not because the league office and/or Onesoccer decide it's going to be the "905 derby" and all they have to do is throw enough freebies at it and people will start to care. The most obvious grudge match that has developed so far has been Forge vs Cavalry.

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, ted said:

So no away fans travelled between Calgary and Edmonton or Hamilton and York? I find that hard to believe.

Probably a non-zero number did.  But not enough to increase attendance to the point where it makes a discernable difference and we would say that derbies increase attendance.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Speaking of travelling fans, I hope if you get 200 either direction from Pacific or VFC, they'll accomodate them. It always makes for a lively contrast and a bit of tension in the stands. 

I think I saw at least once where there were Cavalry fans at Pacific, but in the corner of the main stand right beside the Pacific supporters in the end stand. Which did not make sense. But maybe I remember wrong.

[Stanley]

16 hours ago, jonovision said:

But when you play each other 4 or 5 times a year, the novelty of the derby rivalry wears off pretty quickly. I expect the same will be reflected in crowd #s for Pacific-Vancouver FC matches soon enough.

Exactly.  I've said this before, but back in the USL days, in one 28 game season, the Whitecaps played the Sounders 7 times.  The novelty sure wore off that season.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Stanley
Typo

[shermanator]

5 hours ago, ted said:

So no away fans travelled between Calgary and Edmonton or Hamilton and York? I find that hard to believe.

I think you vastly overestimate the number of people willing to drive 6 hours between Calgary and Edmonton for CPL soccer. On the high end Cavalry brought around 125 people to Edmonton in June 2019. Last year it was around 80 both times. Sounds good when it's a crowd of 500 in the stands but no it did not have a big affect on the attendance.

Edmonton brought at most 40-50 back in 2019, and it dropped rapidly after the pandemic. Last year, they brought a grand total of 6 away fans for the May 10 Voyageurs Cup game. As half of them were kicked out 20 minutes in for screaming at the ref calling them a cunt for awarding a penalty, they brought a grand total of 0 away fans for both CPL games.

[Watchmen]

6 hours ago, ted said:

So no away fans travelled between Calgary and Edmonton or Hamilton and York? I find that hard to believe.

He didn't say none did. He said they didn't go in numbers that matter. The problem with these two examples is that one half of the derby is (or was) the worst supported teams in the league.

[Aird25]

38 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

The problem with these two examples is that one half of the derby is (or was) the worst supported teams in the league.

They’re both extremely one sided I believe as well

Anyways, I’m hoping for 5000 at the Pacific opener. That’s enough to make the atmosphere at Starlight damn fun. We just need the weather to cooperate 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Aird25

[Cheeta]

I have no idea but I'm overall optimistic. 

On the positive side.

A).  The schedule is much improved.  THAT can't be overstated.

B).  We did have a men's team at the World Cup Finals this close season and I don't doubt every CPL supporters group was an important part, formally or informally, in the veiwing parties in their locations.  I suppose that could count for something with the general population, just by association.

and C).  Media coverage, if not by mass then by quality, has been consistantly improving.

 

Of course, because I can never be completely happy.  On the negative side.

The economy isn't exactly roaring in many parts of the country. THAT also can't be overstated.  Inflation is clobbering a lot of households. 

On a local Valour-centric level;

The team is advertising a lot more.  Are they advertising in the right places?  Don't know.

They've also held their place on prices, getting more in line with what I've noted is happening in other places around the league.  That's a WFC thing.  It's happening with the Blue Bombers to.  A re-think about where the best dollars lay in this economy and recognizing that greatest returns may be found in reducing margins while maintaining/growing volumes.

And as mentioned above, the schedule. This 1st week aside, compared to last years it's a 300% improvement.

So yeah, overal optimistic.  We'll see.  You can reason this or that but at the end of the day just putting a competitive team on the field that plays some entertaining football, that's worth it's weight in gold.

P.S.  Weather.  Please good weather.  Not too hot, not too cold, not too wet.  Good luck with that one.      

 

[Cheeta]

Oh, re the regional derby discussion.  

It could evolve into a real "something" in certain locations and under the right conditions.  The Labour Day Classic/Banjo Bowl which have become something bigger than just the CFL in Winnipeg and The Rider Nation didn't happen overnight or simply by accident.  Yes, a big part of it's evolution was organic, but for sure once the "board rooms" caught on to what was obviously a good thing HQ got involved, and well, here we are. 

Same thing could happen in the CPL.  Every fixture doesn't have to be "The Fixture" between Pacific and Vancouver.  But the one on this date or that date could be?  And then everyone is having some fun.  

Just saying.  In it's own time it'll happen or it won't.  You can't force it, but no harm in trying to nurse it along.  I'm sure the brass over at CPL HQ are listening and looking at any way they can make these regional events a reality.  Because that's just good for business.             

[Kent]

9 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Oh, re the regional derby discussion.  

It could evolve into a real "something" in certain locations and under the right conditions.  The Labour Day Classic/Banjo Bowl which have become something bigger than just the CFL in Winnipeg and The Rider Nation didn't happen overnight or simply by accident.  Yes, a big part of it's evolution was organic, but for sure once the "board rooms" caught on to what was obviously a good thing HQ got involved, and well, here we are. 

Same thing could happen in the CPL.  Every fixture doesn't have to be "The Fixture" between Pacific and Vancouver.  But the one on this date or that date could be?  And then everyone is having some fun.  

Just saying.  In it's own time it'll happen or it won't.  You can't force it, but no harm in trying to nurse it along.  I'm sure the brass over at CPL HQ are listening and looking at any way they can make these regional events a reality.  Because that's just good for business.             

Even just with more time and growth of the league. Currently the "well attended" teams in the local derbies are drawing 3k fans per game. You have to figure the type of people to go to an away game are probably the people that go to virtually every home game, so you are drawing from some percentage of that 3k. I have no idea what the numbers would look like, but just for illustrative purposes you have 3k going to each home game, let's say half of that number are people that go to every home game, so 1.5k, then 5% of those fans go to any particular away game so it ends up being 75 people. If that 3k people grow in the medium to far future to like 8k, 10k, 12k, then obviously the travelling fan groups will grow as well.

So I don't think we can expect too significant a derby attendance boost in these early years, but in the future it could become a thing, for the existing derbies and for future derbies (through expansion).

Edited April 12, 2023 by Kent
Missed a y.

[Kingston]

33 minutes ago, Kent said:

Even just with more time and growth of the league. Currently the "well attended" teams in the local derbies are drawing 3k fans per game. You have to figure the type of people to go to an away game are probably the people that go to virtually ever home game, so you are drawing from some percentage of that 3k.

It's also the "expats".  Back when in I lived in the area and went frequently, there were a lot of Als fans at Argos games when the two teams played.  The same seems to be true of Leafs and Habs.  I don't think they all (or even most of them) drove up for the game.

[jonovision]

10 hours ago, Cheeta said:

On a local Valour-centric level;

The team is advertising a lot more.  Are they advertising in the right places?  Don't know.

They've also held their place on prices, getting more in line with what I've noted is happening in other places around the league.  That's a WFC thing.  It's happening with the Blue Bombers to.  A re-think about where the best dollars lay in this economy and recognizing that greatest returns may be found in reducing margins while maintaining/growing volumes.

And as mentioned above, the schedule. This 1st week aside, compared to last years it's a 300% improvement.

So yeah, overal optimistic.  We'll see.  You can reason this or that but at the end of the day just putting a competitive team on the field that plays some entertaining football, that's worth it's weight in gold.

P.S.  Weather.  Please good weather.  Not too hot, not too cold, not too wet.  Good luck with that one.    

Good summary here. WFC seemed to have caught on 8 or 9 years ago, with the Blue Bombers, that they actually need to be seen to be putting in an effort, both in terms of game day experience and fielding a competitive team, if they want to continue to be able to sell tickets (and therefore exist). I do see some signs of this, at least on the marketing side, with Valour recently.

That said I'm not hopeful of a huge home opener crowd for a few reasons:

1. Start time. An evening start in April doesn't make sense.
2. Weather. I don't put too much stock into a forecast 10 days out, especially in April, but right now we're looking at a high of 8 degrees (will be cooler by evening) and cloudy.
3. Jets. The Jets (another Winnipeg team that hasn't figured out that they actually need to try to earn their fans' dollar) have backed into the playoffs and will almost surely be playing on the same night.

Hoping to be proven wrong. Maybe if the team is coming off two straight wins out west some locals will take notice and get behind the team.

Edited April 12, 2023 by jonovision

[EnigMattic1]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

Good summary here. WFC seemed to have caught on 8 or 9 years ago, with the Blue Bombers, that they actually need to be seen to be putting in an effort, both in terms of game day experience and fielding a competitive team, if they want to continue to be able to sell tickets (and therefore exist). I do see some signs of this, at least on the marketing side, with Valour recently.

That said I'm not hopeful of a huge home opener crowd for a few reasons:

1. Start time. An evening start in April doesn't make sense.
2. Weather. I don't put too much stock into a forecast 10 days out, especially in April, but right now we're looking at a high of 8 degrees (will be cooler by evening) and cloudy.
3. Jets. The Jets (another Winnipeg team that hasn't figured out that they actually need to try to earn their fans' dollar) have backed into the playoffs and will almost surely be playing on the same night.

Hoping to be proven wrong. Maybe if the team is coming off two straight wins out west some locals will take notice and get behind the team.

Given that the Bombers and the Jets are the biggest teams in Winnipeg, it makes sense that, if the Jets play on the same night, more fans would go there. 

Marketing is a start, but WFC need to do more than just marketing. Fingers crossed it picks up. 

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, EnigMattic1 said:

Marketing is a start, but WFC need to do more than just marketing. Fingers crossed it picks up. 

Definitely fingers crossed.  There is some flexibility about which cities the CPL has teams in, but Winnipeg is one of the places where it has to do well if the league is going to really thrive. 

[EnigMattic1]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

Definitely fingers crossed.  There is some flexibility about which cities the CPL has teams in, but Winnipeg is one of the places where it has to do well if the league is going to really thrive. 

You would expect that, given that it is the only team in across Manitoba and Saskatchewan at present. Honestly, the potential for them to really make something is definitely there, maybe all they need is a playoff run?

[Aird25]

Looking like a good chance of a sellout if ticketmaster is to be believed. I believe sections 113 and 114 are being held for away supporters.

[Kingston]

13 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Looking like a good chance of a sellout if ticketmaster is to be believed. I believe sections 113 and 114 are being held for away supporters.

That would be excellent.  Hopefully this is accurate and not one of the cases where ticketmaster just doesn't show all the tickets so as to make it look like they  are scarce.

I'm especially happy if a team can sell out its season opener.  It shows that there is buzz around the team and that fans are thinking of the team ahead of time on their own, not just remembering about it when they start seeing game results and scores on their news feeds.

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

Hopefully this is accurate and not one of the cases where ticketmaster just doesn't show all the tickets so as to make it look like they  are scarce.

We’ll see, but I imagine they would have released more sections by now if there were any available. It’s basically just single seats left at this point 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

I think if York United can get off to a good start, they will show an increase in average attendance.  Maybe to 1500, (1234 last year) still low for the league but will show progress.

[Kingston]

9 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

We’ll see, but I imagine they would have released more sections by now if there were any available. It’s basically just single seats left at this point 

Hopefully.  But I've also seen it where they sell rows A, C, E, G etc. and then suddenly open up rows B, D, F, etc. in a section that looked sold out the day before.

Regardless, I'm hoping it's a sell out.  Is that still around 6000 or have any of the expansion plans actually happened?

[SpursFlu]

Vancouver fc sending over a bus

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

Hopefully.  But I've also seen it where they sell rows A, C, E, G etc. and then suddenly open up rows B, D, F, etc. in a section that looked sold out the day before.

Regardless, I'm hoping it's a sell out.  Is that still around 6000 or have any of the expansion plans actually happened?

Yeah, I've seen that too, and I'm pretty sure they did it earlier on for this game. I just feel they would have released more if that were the case, as there are no two seats together other than a couple spots in the most expensive seats or marked up resales, and it's been like that since yesterday. Maybe they're withholding some for walkups. Who knows

Edited April 13, 2023 by Aird25

[jonovision]

5 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Yeah, I've seen that too, and I'm pretty sure they did it earlier on for this game. I just feel they would have released more if that were the case, as there are no two seats together other than a couple spots in the most expensive seats or marked up resales, and it's been like that since yesterday. Maybe they're withholding some for walkups. Who knows

If Ticketmaster is withholding blocks of seats with only singles currently available, that is near-criminal malpractice. They're evil, but not dumb. Expect a sell-out of close to it.

The exception I've noticed in some instances is that sometimes small blocks are reserved for group sales until a few days before the game if they aren't sold, but we're probably past that point as well.