General MLS Talk 2023

[Bison44]

I think I am going to like saying "BOMBITO!!!!" this summer.   

[SthMelbRed]

16 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I think I am going to like saying "BOMBITO!!!!" this summer.   

If ever there was a reason to dust off Vic Rauter.....

[Free kick]

On 1/19/2023 at 3:09 PM, narduch said:

There will name be 2 facilities in the league named BMO.

 

Here is the story.

 

LAFC agree record $100m stadium naming rights deal with Canada’s BMO - Inside World Football

[narduch]

So MLS on Apple+ is supposed to launch on February 1.

Any season ticket holders heard anything about this?

Edited January 27, 2023 by narduch

[Metro]

No.

[Metro]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:56 AM, narduch said:

So MLS on Apple+ is supposed to launch on February 1.

Any season ticket holders heard anything about this?

The funny thing is I've been checking in on the Apple TV app, and unless I am looking in the wrong places, I've seen absolutely no evidence that Apple TV will be carrying MLS content as of this Wednesday.

I guess it'll just magically appear?

[red card]

More Canadian names added to MLS broadcast teams. CFM gets another of their local talent hired but none yet for TFC/Caps.

Bernier will be a match analyst in French. Kaylyn Kyle will serve as a match host.

Matt Cullen will do play-by-play in French. Cullen has covered the last three Olympic Games for the CBC and have called matches for OneSoccer in French (mostly).

Ross Smith will be a match analyst. He's a native of Guelph but has been a Timbers radio and then tv analyst for the past decade or so.

Other notable names from the 31 newly added are Brian Dunseth (RSL), Higginbotham (Union), Cobi Jones (Galaxy), Jaime Macias, Lloyd Sam (Concacaf WCQ/Charlotte), Shep Messing (MSG), Keith Costigan (Sounders), Kevin Egan (Fire/Atlanta), Devon Kerr (Concacaf tourneys) & Adrian Healey (Austin). Christina Unkel will be a rules analyst. So, almost 50 people on camera in total on the payroll.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/apple-and-major-league-soccer-add-31-talented-on-air-personalities-to-the-mls-se

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by red card

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, Metro said:

The funny thing is I've been checking in on the Apple TV app, and unless I am looking in the wrong places, I've seen absolutely no evidence that Apple TV will be carrying MLS content as of this Wednesday.

I guess it'll just magically appear?

Like for me it really isn't that big deal as long as I can watch the games.

Just don't want to be scrambling right before the 1st game setting this up.

[Ruffian]

1 hour ago, Metro said:

The funny thing is I've been checking in on the Apple TV app, and unless I am looking in the wrong places, I've seen absolutely no evidence that Apple TV will be carrying MLS content as of this Wednesday.

I guess it'll just magically appear?

The website says coming February 1st.

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, Metro said:

I guess it'll just magically appear?

You might be surprised how often it is "just flip a switch".

[narduch]

Carl Robinson is joining DC as an assistant 

[saladroit]

season pass is out now, lots of content on there right now

personal fav is the ritual episode on the montreal bell

[RS]

58 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Comparison in regards to making or losing money
https://www.forbes.com/sites/justinbirnbaum/2023/02/02/major-league-soccers-most-valuable-clubs-2023-lafc-is-the-first-billion-dollar-franchise/

Some turns a profit but most are losing money

 

Only Chicago Fire loses more money than the Canadian clubs at -$18M.

NYCFC loses as much as Montreal at -$12M

 

Toronto FC (-$15M)

Vancouver Whitecaps (-$15M)

CF Montreal (-$12M)

 

 

Makes more sense to post and discuss this here, no?

[Ivan]

I agree, better to discuss here.  Yes, it seems the 3 Canadian teams all lose money but a few things to consider.  One, I would imagine the MLS works the same as other major sports leagues in North America where Canadian teams earn their revenue in Canadian dollars, but pay out salaries in US dollars?  Also, the value of the 3 Canadian teams has risen significantly.  IIRC, MLSE bought the TFC franchise for $10 million.  It's now worth $700 million according to Forbes.  Whitecaps, for $25 million, now worth $400 million.  Montreal for $40 million, now worth 400 million.  Something like that? 

[Bison44]

Its not that strange.  The business part of sports has been interwoven into the fandom consciousness for decades.  Which teams have deep pockets, who makes money, who spends money, which players are overpaid etc.  The fans do care about whether their team have a bad financial situation. And the comparing/contrasting of one league to another, ie which league pays more, who draws more fans, which has the better quality play is discussed ad nauseum all over the forum.  

[Kingston]

3 hours ago, Ivan said:

I agree, better to discuss here.  Yes, it seems the 3 Canadian teams all lose money but a few things to consider.  One, I would imagine the MLS works the same as other major sports leagues in North America where Canadian teams earn their revenue in Canadian dollars, but pay out salaries in US dollars?  Also, the value of the 3 Canadian teams has risen significantly.  IIRC, MLSE bought the TFC franchise for $10 million.  It's now worth $700 million according to Forbes.  Whitecaps, for $25 million, now worth $400 million.  Montreal for $40 million, now worth 400 million.  Something like that? 

Yes, something like that.

I still don't get the economics of pro sports, though.  I understand that, on paper, TFC has gained something like $700 million in value so if they run at an operating loss of a few million per year then MLSE is still ahead over all.  That really only counts, however, if they sell the team, which they have no plans to do.  So as of right now they are out of pocket X million dollars.  So again, I get the big picture argument, but how is that useful if you never sell the team?  (Which is the same situation for many teams in many sports leagues.)

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

Yes, something like that.

I still don't get the economics of pro sports, though.  I understand that, on paper, TFC has gained something like $700 million in value so if they run at an operating loss of a few million per year then MLSE is still ahead over all.  That really only counts, however, if they sell the team, which they have no plans to do.  So as of right now they are out of pocket X million dollars.  So again, I get the big picture argument, but how is that useful if you never sell the team?  (Which is the same situation for many teams in many sports leagues.)

For a team like TFC, they're offsetting the losses against other MLSE properties (like the Leafs). They'll pay less in tax, even as the value goes up.

[Ivan]

6 hours ago, Kingston said:

Yes, something like that.

I still don't get the economics of pro sports, though.  I understand that, on paper, TFC has gained something like $700 million in value so if they run at an operating loss of a few million per year then MLSE is still ahead over all.  That really only counts, however, if they sell the team, which they have no plans to do.  So as of right now they are out of pocket X million dollars.  So again, I get the big picture argument, but how is that useful if you never sell the team?  (Which is the same situation for many teams in many sports leagues.)

Simple.  Their franchise continues to grow in value so while they can show a year to year loss, they are actually gaining overall through the value of their franchise.  You're right though, they will only realize this when they sell.  Still a good bit of business if you ask me.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 1/30/2023 at 9:40 PM, red card said:

...Shep Messing (MSG)...

Quite impressive that he still has a career after doing stuff like this back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth:

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

14 hours ago, Kingston said:

Yes, something like that.

I still don't get the economics of pro sports, though.  I understand that, on paper, ...

That still makes it an appreciating asset on a balance sheet sent to shareholders. Only reason this is even being discussed is because of the projected CanPL vs MLS obsessions of certain posters.

The valuations that Forbes talk about are only credible if someone would actually be willing to buy at that price. Back when the Mutiny and Fusion were contracted any sale of an existing franchise happening at all would have been filed under good luck you'll need it in an MLS context. The SSS that the Columbus Crew had built inspired a new approach that slowly turned things around.

Figure out for yourselves what the FC Edmonton situation last summer implies and whether there is any parallel with where MLS was at when the Fusion and Mutiny departed the scene. Also figure out for yourself if that ties into the decision to hire Mark Noonan in any way and the talk of Vancouver FC being a showcase for a future wave of modular stadium builds.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kingston]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

That still makes it an appreciating asset on a balance sheet sent to shareholders. Only reason this is even being discussed is because of the projected CanPL vs MLS obsessions of certain posters.

The valuations that Forbes talk about are only credible if someone would actually be willing to buy at that price. Back when the Mutiny and Fusion were contracted any sale of an existing franchise happening at all would have been filed under good luck you'll need it in an MLS context. The SSS that the Columbus Crew had built inspired a new approach that slowly turned things around.

Figure out for yourselves what the FC Edmonton situation last summer implies and whether there is any parallel with where MLS was at when the Fusion and Mutiny departed the scene. Also figure out for yourself if that ties into the decision to hire Mark Noonan in any way and the talk of Vancouver FC being a showcase for a future wave of modular stadium builds.

I don't think there's anyone who believes that the CPL teams have valuation changes anything like those in MLS yet.  The CPL is only five years old.  It is still very much in the getting established and proving itself stage.  Anyone who thought we'd launch a brand new league and not suffer any team losses along the way was grossly optimistic.  So even though we couldn't necessarily have predicted that it would be Edmonton specifically, having an Edmonton is not a surprise.  I would not be surprised if we have another "Edmonton" or two before the league reaches the age of ten.  As long as the league overall gets established in, say, eight to ten successful markets then any early team losses or relocations are just part of the growing process.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

This is in response to a post where I draw parallels to what happened with the Miami Fusion and Tampa Bay Mutiny after the sixth season of MLS and make an as subtle as a sledgehammer attempt to try to make it obvious that CanPL is actively trying to emulate at least some of what MLS did thereafter so that the franchises/clubs can become appreciating assets for the investors?

[Kingston]

57 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

This is in response to a post where I draw parallels to what happened with the Miami Fusion and Tampa Bay Mutiny after the sixth season of MLS and make an as subtle as a sledgehammer attempt to try to make it obvious that CanPL is actively trying to emulate at least some of what MLS did thereafter so that the franchises/clubs can become appreciating assets for the investors?

Possibly I misunderstood where you were going with this?

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Figure out for yourselves what the FC Edmonton situation last summer implies and whether there is any parallel with where MLS was at when the Fusion and Mutiny departed the scene. 

I don't see parallels between MLS'  Florida contraction and the Edmonton situation in the CPL.

The MLS teams were contracted right after 911 when a sudden economic downturn was expected and several sports leagues mused about contracting weaker teams.  The MLS teams were part of the single entity structure which, at that time, really was pretty much single entity because not only did the league own its half, but Anschutz and Hunt were the operator-owners of all but one of the teams.  So this was very much a case of corporate HQ closing down two unprofitable locations with a view to the overall strength and health of the league.

Edmonton was a case of a single ownership group no longer being willing to sustain losses.  It was not a decision taken in the context of how it helped or hindered the league overall, but rather based on what it meant to the Faths.  The CPL is not single entity so the league has no mandate to prop up particular franchises.  The league stepped in briefly last year because the alternative was a sudden hole in the schedule but that was never going to be a long term thing.

What it implies is that the Faths weren't able to make the Edmonton market work to their satisfaction and the league was unable to find a new ownership group to take over.  Given the stadium situation in Edmonton and the currently jaded state of the fan base, I'm not surprised.  I do expect someone to take another shot at a CPL team in Edmonton one day, but only after some time has passed and only if they can start with the stadium situation sorted out.

 

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Also figure out for yourself if that ties into the decision to hire Mark Noonan in any way and the talk of Vancouver FC being a showcase for a future wave of modular stadium builds.

I don't see Noonan's hiring as related.  Whoever the new CPL commissioner was, they would have had to deal with the Edmonton situation and would almost certainly have done the same thing.

I don't see a direct connection to the Vancouver modular stadium situation.  Certainly a modular stadium would be an option for Edmonton, much like any CPL market (future or existing).  Halifax has already shown that a modular stadium can work, however, so all the Vancouver represents is another possible supplier for an owner that wanted to explore that option.

[Watchmen]

18 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The SSS that the Columbus Crew had built inspired a new approach that slowly turned things around.

I actually don't even think it was that. The first wave of stadiums built were in the suburbs, away from the downtown core, because it was cheaper/those cities were willing to build them. To this day, they remain some of the poorest attendances in MLS. Really, it was the TFC and Seattle expansions, followed by Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal that really saved things: good soccer markets with (mostly) downtown stadiums.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

15 hours ago, Kingston said:

...I don't see Noonan's hiring as related...

It was what he did with Hearts of Oak in Accra that impressed them rather than his MLS front office experience? Immediately after he was hired he talked about how MLS had to take painful decisions on contraction to be able to move forward and plenty of people on here and on twitter understood loud and clear what the implications of that were likely to be.

Flip side is that what has worked well is Halifax in a pop-up and Made in China modular stadia could be what makes it easier to emulate that elsewhere in a similar way to how the SSS sprouted up across MLS. That probably hinges to a large extent on what happens in Langley. That's out in exurbia rather than the Halifax scenario but maybe there is a significant "Fraser Valley" market to tap into. We'll find out soon enough.