General MLS Talk 2023

[Macksam]

Hey bros, I have been out of the loop when it comes to soccer and Canadian soccer for a couple months now. The World Cup just drained me of all my sports consuming energy that I had to go cold turkey for a bit. Anyhow, how is everyone doing? Major League Soccer just started, I was wondering if the league had any exciting DP signings? 

[Nick P]

19 hours ago, VinceA said:

This is what coverage on Fox looks like lmao

 opening the new MLS season with Stu and John in a doordash closet is not a good look for Fox 

[Metro]

14 hours ago, Kent said:

I don't normally come to the MLS forum, although I follow TFC very closely. I came on to see if there were any thoughts on MLS Season Pass. I don't plan on subscribing, despite watching nearly every TFC game for the past dozen or so years. I don't really care about non-TFC games, so $20 per month is very steep. Especially since at this point at least I hate the whole idea of the Leagues Cup (I assume that will be on Apple) so that's like a month of dead air time too. I might get it the last month or so of the season plus playoffs if TFC end up not being a tire fire this year.

But I was watching it a bit today. My impressions in no particular order.

1. They didn't seem to have the crowd noise volume set well for the TFC game. It was a bit too quiet. It's a tough thing, OneSoccer often has it too loud. This is a minor complaint.

2. I think it's cool that they have some "classic" games available (I haven't watched any, but my assumption is that it's a full game?). The star player highlight videos are neat too.

3. You can pause the game, take that OneSoccer! But unfortunately at least on my Firestick if you leave it paused for 5 minutes or so it exits and you have to start the game over again. It asks if you want to watch live or start from the beginning, but you can't resume where you were. So you have to choose to watch from the beginning and then fast-forward to where you were.

4. Big negative that they should easily be able to fix. The thumbnail for an in progress game HAS THE LIVE SCORE ON IT!!! Such a spoiler! You click on a thumbnail that says "1-0" in big text on it and then it asks if you want to watch from the beginning or join it live. Luckily I noticed this with the early game today, and I was able to squint through my fingers to try to find the TFC game when I had to restart after pausing for too long, so the score wasn't spoiled for me in the game I cared about. There may be a way to turn this off, but it might only be for Apple devices. https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/how-to-turn-off-scores-in-mls-season-pass-to-avoid-spoilers-20230223-WST-420749.html

5. I couldn't find a way to turn off the subtitles. There was nothing I could find while watching the game. I exited out and found something in the settings that was about not showing automatic closed captioning or something like that. I turned it off and went back to the game, but I still saw the subtitles. There has to be something I am missing, but if there is it's less obvious than every other streaming app I have used. Sidenote, there exists a chance of spoilers with the subtitles, as sometimes the text appears before the commentator says it. They must have the video on a delay for censoring certain words and maybe to give the speech to text software a chance to catch up.

Just my thoughts: I was testing the Apple TV app on the Roku and the Google chrome that I have and I noticed the video was better than the TSN feed but the audio was worse. I’m guessing the Apple guys are not at the stadium but are calling the game from a studio somewhere. (Of course same thing for the TSN guys.)

You can adjust the scores and subtitles in the settings section within the app but the scores were showing for me too last night even though I had them turned off. They’re not showing now.

[RS]

17 minutes ago, Metro said:

I’m guessing the Apple guys are not at the stadium but are calling the game from a studio somewhere.

Apple announcers are all in-stadium. That's why they tend to be the local teams from previous years (Price and Dolan did the Whitecaps game, for instance).

[RS]

5 hours ago, gator said:

I bet the cancellation of the LA Derby wasn't even thought possible, that one hurts for rescheduling I imagine because instead of being a showcase match on opening weekend I suspect it will be moved to a rescheduled midweek clash!

5 hours ago, narduch said:

I think its been moved to July 4th!

Technically a midweek clash

[Goal_Kick]

15 hours ago, Kent said:

5. I couldn't find a way to turn off the subtitles. There was nothing I could find while watching the game. I exited out and found something in the settings that was about not showing automatic closed captioning or something like that. I turned it off and went back to the game, but I still saw the subtitles.

Don't know how helpful this is since I watch the games on my tv via a Roku device.

Using Roku, while watching a game, press the up arrow on the Roku remote.  This should bring up a menu at the bottom of the screen.  Press the up arrow again and it should take you to that menu.  Move to the 'quote' icon and press 'ok'.  That brings up a sub-menu that lets you turn off subtitles.  At least for that one game.

I haven't found a way to keep the subtitles off by default.

[Ruffian]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:54 PM, Kent said:

1. They didn't seem to have the crowd noise volume set well for the TFC game. It was a bit too quiet. It's a tough thing, OneSoccer often has it too loud. This is a minor complaint.

I noticed the audio issues a lot in the pre-season game on AppleTV. At times the crowd noise was too loud and you couldn't even hear what the announcer was saying. i think they have some learning to do there.

[red card]

I never perceived Jim Curtin as interesting but he did have interesting lines in this interview:

Philly vs Atlanta fans: This is the most I’ll brag about my club tonight — we’re authentic. No knock on Atlanta, but if you check the drivers licenses at an Atlanta United game, they’re from all over the place because that’s just the place to party. You’ve got 50,000 people getting together to party. My dad sat next to a few and they were great people but they were just like ‘we’re SEC football guys and we’re just here because we heard this is a great party.’

Dogmatic Coaching: I happen to think Tata Martino was a great coach, whatever you think of him personally. He was pretty dogmatic. But he had great players and they f–king loved him. Since he left, those players don’t love anyone. The managers who followed him might have been great, but Tata had a way where…they played for him. It was scary. It was f–king terrifying to play Atlanta.

Playoff Format: I’ll start by saying that the last two seasons have been the best playoffs, for the eyeballs. But there are other factors. Apple comes in, I think they need “x” amount of games. I think they’re gonna do a great job, but the league had to be a little flexible, creative and crazy, so they had to change it. It’s tough to get to the number (Apple wants.)

In terms of a best-of-three series, I think I might get criticized for my opinion…you hate each other’s guts after those three games. They are total battles, it’s almost like a hockey series where it’s just about whoever is still healthy after all of it. That’s probably not the greatest endorsement. Aesthetically it might not be the greatest, but it will create narratives. Apple will want a good guy and a bad guy, a villain and a goat.

We don’t have enough villains in our league. We have too many nice guys. MLS used to have so many jerks. There were so many a–holes on every team. We may have the closest these days with Jose (Martinez.) 

Clubs Doing it Right: I’ll look at a team like Brentford. I’ll look at what they’re doing there in their recruitment, their coaching, how they play. I look for smaller teams that are punching above their weight because that’s us. We’re not gonna go buy all the best. In our league? I like Steve Cherundolo at LAFC. I thought Wilfred Nancy did an amazing job in Montreal. He’s another one who learned from five or six coaches and gathered a lot of different ideas. 

USMNT: Yes, the pool is deeper but the only thing that matters (in a vacuum) is your best XI. That’s it. Does it matter that you have 40 good ones? I’d rather have eleven players that separate themselves so much. 

2026 has to be our furthest ever. Otherwise it’s a failure. Americans are a-holes. We only want to support what we’re the best at. We are not the best at soccer. If we go on a deep run in that competition, I do think it would have a real impact on MLS. My meathead football friends will say “well f—, we just upset France, maybe I’ll give these guys a little credit, maybe this sport is a real sport.”

Ted Lasso: I give them credit for being at least close to capturing the feeling in the locker room. They get that there are people from different cultures, assholes, nice guys, there are wives who are annoying who are problems. That’s all real. He comes off as loveable. Do I think it’s set back the American coach 20 years? Yes, I do. We worked so hard to get to Europe and then Jesse kind of breaks in and it’s like… what a curse to have that show break out at the same time he’s there.

Welcome to Wrexham: Those guys are genuine and kind of passionate which is cool. ...it comes down to how much access the coaches really give. Do they become comfortable enough with the cameras on to have a real, hard conversation or do they talk differently? You can tell pretty quickly with those shows which seasons are going to work and which ones are guys just faking it. It would have to go back to the authentic thing. We’re going to try a version of it. There’s cameras in all of our meetings now filming the real stuff.

 

https://theathletic.com/4247145/2023/02/24/philadelphia-union-jim-curtin-mls/?source=user_shared_article

[red card]

On 2/25/2023 at 6:11 PM, VinceA said:

This is what coverage on Fox looks like lmao

As per Futbol Americas, MLS is paying for Fox's MLS telecasts. So, this backdrop is from a studio in Florida of a company hired by MLS. Reason cited was that MLS didn't want to spend too much more since they're already splurging on MLS Season Pass. Maybe also MLS isn't happy that Fox didn't want to pay for production. They got rid of it for this week's match - used a full green screen generated MLS on Fox logo with Strong/Holden standing.

Clip also points out that MLS also didn't equally splurge on the Spanish studio. They used one of the smaller backdrops.

 

 

[red card]

Garber had a sit down with the Athletic. Some new tidbits came out including MLS hiring DTS production company, Apple has an opt-out option, Beckham-style deal will be created to get Messi, pro/rel isn't for today but never say never & revenue sharing model changed to incentivize performance on/off the pitch.

Drive to Subscribe: The league and its clubs are still in the process of building out so-called “shoulder programming”. Partnered with British company Box to Box to produce a doc series. Sources have said league’s agreement with Apple contains an “opt-out” clause that allows Apple to walk away from the agreement if the league doesn’t drive a certain number of subscribers to Season Pass in a set timeframe.

MLS Messi: “…it’s going to be outside the box. Because, as you all know, what’s going on in international football today, with Ronaldo at $100 million … the transfer market is just exploding in ways that are unimaginable. We’re gonna have to structure a deal that’s going to compensate him in ways that he and his family expect. 

Expansion: “I’m bullish on San Diego— Las Vegas and Sacramento. Garber was also clear that the price tag for an expansion spot has gone up. Multiple sources told The Athletic that MLS was targeting $500 million for its next expansion fee.

Pro/Rel: This is the ‘never say never’ thing. I’ve been pretty consistent on that. We shouldn’t walk away from having the courage to evolve over time. And as the league continues to grow and evolve, and our fanbase and the market continue to grow and evolve, I don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t be thinking about new structures. I don’t see how that works today, but I can’t look far enough in the future to say never.

Revenue Sharing: First changes in 15-20 years to help teams in areas like attendance. “It’s way easier to be new than it is to be improved…So as you have legacy teams that have been around since day one, and they have success and lack of success, and stadiums that are now older and the like, we do have disparity between our best-performing clubs and those that need to get better about reimagining what business they’re in in the local market. So yes, this group will get very focused on helping those teams that are not performing at a level that we think everyone should be performing at.”

MLS & Women’s Soccer: “I see no reason why MLS Next(or MLSNP) should not have a girls component to it. If we are building the infrastructure to have tens of thousands of kids playing at an elite level, why recreate that and have somebody else incur that expense? We ought to be able to figure out a girls component of that, and whether we do that on our own, or whether we do that with the NWSL, we ought to be able to figure that out.”
 

 

[BearcatSA]

16 hours ago, red card said:

Sources have said league’s agreement with Apple contains an “opt-out” clause that allows Apple to walk away from the agreement if the league doesn’t drive a certain number of subscribers to Season Pass in a set timeframe.

Let's see how that works out.

For me personally, I'm not getting it.  I will just rely on whatever TSN or Fox can provide.

Edit:  in light of the inflationary cost of living times in which we currently reside, I think this broadcasting deal is going to be a bust for all involved.

Edited March 5, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Macksam]

16 hours ago, red card said:

MLS Messi: “…it’s going to be outside the box. Because, as you all know, what’s going on in international football today, with Ronaldo at $100 million … the transfer market is just exploding in ways that are unimaginable. We’re gonna have to structure a deal that’s going to compensate him in ways that he and his family expect. 

 

Not surprised they're making it publicly known about going after him hard, and yes, they have to structure a very exclusive deal for him, and they should because it will be worth it considering the subscriber base would sky rocket, finally bringing in the sponsorships and media money the league so desperately needs to take things to the final level. 

[Kingston]

20 hours ago, Macksam said:

Not surprised they're making it publicly known about going after him hard, and yes, they have to structure a very exclusive deal for him, and they should because it will be worth it considering the subscriber base would sky rocket, finally bringing in the sponsorships and media money the league so desperately needs to take things to the final level. 

Do you think that's really true, though?  I'm always skeptical about these deals where the cost of the player greatly exceeds the revenue from any extra ticket/jersey sales the player will drive.  Sure, he would increase sponsorship too, but does that then disappear again when he leaves three years later?

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

Sure, he would increase sponsorship too, but does that then disappear again when he leaves three years later?

Then they'll just sign the next one.  They look to be locked into the Beckham strategy under the Don-ship.

[red card]

TSN audience figures from week 1. Lower than typical for opening weekend but in line with more recent year's averages. CFM number was impacted the most by going to head-to-head with TFC, most watching on RDS and/or Apple TV francais.

 

[Macksam]

13 hours ago, Kingston said:

Do you think that's really true, though?  I'm always skeptical about these deals where the cost of the player greatly exceeds the revenue from any extra ticket/jersey sales the player will drive.  Sure, he would increase sponsorship too, but does that then disappear again when he leaves three years later?

I'm not even thinking about ticket and jersey sales. The main and most significant increase from Messi would be media (TV deals, increased Apple TV subscribers, sponsors) and we're probably looking at something that would increase the cap to around 30 to 40 million overnight (well, technically until the next increase is allowed which would be next season but knowing MLS, they would implement some mid season by-law change to circumvent that. Would it disappear? Only if the drive to increase the overall talent and subsequent quality level with the new found cash influx is squandered and not taken advantage of, which is unlikely.  

Edited March 7, 2023 by Macksam

[SoccMan]

On 3/4/2023 at 6:48 PM, BearcatSA said:

Let's see how that works out.

For me personally, I'm not getting it.  I will just rely on whatever TSN or Fox can provide.

Edit:  in light of the inflationary cost of living times in which we currently reside, I think this broadcasting deal is going to be a bust for all involved.

Looks like you are hoping it is right ? I think it will work out fine in the end , it’s 2023 not 1980 , this is the future for how we are going to be viewing all sports in the future like it or hate it . A good move by the MLS in the end .

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, SoccMan said:

Looks like you are hoping it is right ? I think it will work out fine in the end , it’s 2023 not 1980 , this is the future for how we are going to be viewing all sports in the future like it or hate it . A good move by the MLS in the end .

I totally understand that this is the way of viewing different sporting leagues and specific events going forward.  I am also in the process of evaluating what streaming services I will use or continue to use in the future and how much I am willing to pay for them.  And I'll be honest:  as much I've watched MLS, mainly all the Canadian teams' games as often as possible but also American teams via traditional ways of viewing only, I wouldn't pay extra to watch this league but rather would invest that money in watching the very best players in the world in the very best leagues of this sport.  That's my particular entertainment angle.  I can get Fubo with the Prem, One Soccer for CPL, and a whole host of other leagues, right?  If this correct, I would rather do that.  And if I am not watching the Caps each time like in previous seasons and I live too far away to be nothing more than a visitor to BC Place once or maybe twice a year, my interest in the franchise (and the league in general) will seriously wane, especially if the status quo of performance and achievement is maintained. However, the silver lining there is that it might make me even more engaged with CPL than I have been with a just a once a year visit to Victoria:  maybe I will be in Langley more, too, and eventually when CPL comes to the Okanagan I could even be a season ticket holder there, who knows?

I am genuinely interested to see how this works out, especially with the league meeting its subscription targets Apple wants.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Goal_Kick]

4 hours ago, red card said:

TSN audience figures from week 1. Lower than typical for opening weekend but in line with more recent year's averages. CFM number was impacted the most by going to head-to-head with TFC, most watching on RDS and/or Apple TV francais.

 

Have there been any stats released on how many people have subscribed to Apple+ MLS Season Pass?

[Kingston]

10 hours ago, Macksam said:

I'm not even thinking about ticket and jersey sales. The main and most significant increase from Messi would be media (TV deals, increased Apple TV subscribers, sponsors) and we're probably looking at something that would increase the cap to around 30 to 40 million overnight (well, technically until the next increase is allowed which would be next season but knowing MLS, they would implement some mid season by-law change to circumvent that. Would it disappear? Only if the drive to increase the overall talent and subsequent quality level with the new found cash influx is squandered and not taken advantage of, which is unlikely.  

The cap is $5.2 million.  There are 29 teams.  $30 - $5.2 = $24.8 * 29 = $719 million (or $1.009 billion at $40 million per team).

Honest question:  Do you believe signing this one player would increase league revenues by somewhere between $700 million and $1 billion per year?

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

The cap is $5.2 million.  There are 29 teams.  $30 - $5.2 = $24.8 * 29 = $719 million (or $1.009 billion at $40 million per team).

Honest question:  Do you believe signing this one player would increase league revenues by somewhere between $700 million and $1 billion per year?

Considering the player in question and the fact he just came off a World Cup victory, yes, easily actually. This is if this deal happens this summer, when his contract with PSG is up. 

[Kingston]

15 minutes ago, Macksam said:

Considering the player in question and the fact he just came off a World Cup victory, yes, easily actually. This is if this deal happens this summer, when his contract with PSG is up. 

Okay.  Considering that the league's current total revenue is (depending on who you reference) somewhere between $1 and $1.5 billion, this seems... optimistic.

[red card]

10 hours ago, Goal_Kick said:

Have there been any stats released on how many people have subscribed to Apple+ MLS Season Pass?

Nothing so far. Apple could disclose it during their next earnings call but it's too small of a business for them to proactively do it. Apple also hasn't regularly disclosed their sub count for Apple TV+ - during union negotiations in 2021, they said 20 million paid subs in North America. Third-party estimates in 2022 say 50 million globally but half aren't paying.

The usual line is that if the numbers were good, it would have slipped out. But Garber was more focused on Messi & Twellman on St. Louis while the leak was about Apple having an opt-out clause.

Incentives continue to be rolled out as they offered free subs to T-Mobile customers in the pre-season & now MLS 360 is free to Apple TV+ customers.

[BearcatSA]

12 minutes ago, red card said:

The usual line is that if the numbers were good, it would have slipped out. But Garber was more focused on Messi & Twellman on St. Louis while the leak was about Apple having an opt-out clause.

Incentives continue to be rolled out as they offered free subs to T-Mobile customers in the pre-season & now MLS 360 is free to Apple TV+ customers.

And I expect more to come.  

[Macksam]

23 hours ago, Kingston said:

Okay.  Considering that the league's current total revenue is (depending on who you reference) somewhere between $1 and $1.5 billion, this seems... optimistic.

Sure but the growth potential is all there for it to happen.