CONCACAF Nations League 2022/2023 - General Thread - Group Stage

[Shway]

My squad would look like...

GK: Borjan, St. Clair, Sirios
DF: Johnston, Vitoria, Laryea, Miller, Corneilius, Zator, Adekugbe, Abzi, 
MF: Hutchinson, Eustaqiuo, Osorio, Kone, Kaye, Piette, Loturi, Priso
FW: Davies, David, Larin, Cavallini, Brym, Buchanan, Shaffelburg
 

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, Shway said:

So we are 3 weeks away from their first game in 2023. (it's funny because I would typically say "our" but it doesn't feel like this right now)
We know there will be some change over in the squad due to some injuries from the 26 that last appeared at the WC in December. 

Here's a look at the World Cup Squad.



Out Injured:
Junior Hoilett
James Pantemis

Short of minutes/match fitness:
Ike Ugbo - has played 37 mins from a possible 990 mins scoring 1 goal
Joel Waterman - hasn't been in MTL squad this season
Liam Fraser - has played 179 mins from a possible 810 mins with his team fighting relegation
Liam Millar - has played 207 mins from a possible 540 mins while experiencing a hand fracture
David Wotherspoon - has played 214 mins from a possible 1080 mins

*I have projected 19 guys from the 26 that are locks for call ups, the one's highlighted in yellow are cusp players, and red is players who are out.

...Here's a look at guys who missed the World Cup Squad.

Jacob Shaffelburg - If he continues his run of minutes, and contributions I think he will earn this call-up due
Charles-Andreas Brym - has been in a good run of form and the coaching staff likes him.
(I have them as green as I think they will be called)

*The rest are on the cusp (yelloww) or out (red).

Out Injured/Ineligible:
Maxime Crepeau
Doneil Henry 
Luca Koleosho

Short of minutes/match fitness:
Scott Kennedy - has played 21 mins since serving a red card suspension and suffering a facial injury
Raheem Edwards - played 71 mins in his teams season opener.
Thomas Hasal - Has been relegated to the #2 spot for the Whitecaps this year.
Theo Corbeanu - has played 74 mins of a possible 540 mins since arriving on loan at his new club
Jayden Nelson - season has started yet.
Ayo Akinola - played 84 mins from a possible 180, and picked up a small injury in the last game
Matthieu Choiniere - has played played 135 mins from a possible 180. Started 1 game.
Zachary Brault-Guillard - Started his clubs first game and played 61 mins, and then didn't appear in the next game.
Lukas MacNaughton - on the bench for both his clubs games.
Cristian Gutierrez - Not in squad. Hasn't made the bench for both games.

...Here's some names who have been featuring for their clubs since the World Cup.

Victor Loturi  - has played 725 mins from a possible 1170 mins while his team is fighting relegation)
Dominik Zator - has played in all but 19 mins of his teams first 6 matches  since the return of the break.
Kyle Hiebert - has played every minute in his new franchise clubs first two games. Both games were wins.
Diyaeddine Abzi - has played in 432 min from a possible 990 mins. Was his teams PotMonth for January.
Mohamed Farsi - has had consecutive starts to the season playing in 166 from a possible 180.
Ralph Priso - has played 125 mins of 180 mins in his teams first two games of their season.
Luca Petrasso - has played 109 mins from 180 in his teams first two games. He started their first game in which they won.
Marcus Godinho - has played 105 mins from a possible 540 mins. 
Nathan Saliba - started both games for his teams season. Playing in 117 mins of a possible 180.
Sean Rea - has played 95 mins from a possible 180 mins so far this season.

From this information who do you think will be in the 24 man squad?

Here is my prediction:
(3) GK- Borjan, St clair, ?? 
(3) FB - Johnston, Laryea, Adekugbe
(4) CB - Vitoria, Miller, Kennedy, Cornelius
(7) CM - Staq, Kone, Oso, MAK, Spoony, Piette, Hutch
(3) Wingers- Davies, Buchanan, Millar, 
(4) ST - David, Larin, Ugbo, Cav

Potential variations: The wingers to CM is a bit unbalanced but I could see hutch not coming and then a shaf/brym/corbeanu could be called up. I could also see MAK lose his spot for one of these guys if hutch comes. 

I think millar stays in the squad even though his merit could be questioned. We don't have any clearly better options. 
Spoony seems to be a favorite of herdman and is versatile. I think he keeps his spot.

GK (2/3), FB, CB, ST all seem like locks.

The main concern I have is that we are not adding any new faces to the squad other than cornelius-ish. 

Potential newish players to add - Hiebert (Right footed), Shaf, nelson, loturi, 
 

[Bigandy]

4 hours ago, Shway said:

My squad would look like...

GK: Borjan, St. Clair, Sirios
DF: Johnston, Vitoria, Laryea, Miller, Corneilius, Zator, Adekugbe, Abzi, 
MF: Hutchinson, Eustaqiuo, Osorio, Kone, Kaye, Piette, Loturi, Priso
FW: Davies, David, Larin, Cavallini, Brym, Buchanan, Shaffelburg
 

I would be thrilled if we go with a 26 man squad but I am not sure I think it will happen. 

You've chosen alot of "in-form" players at lower levels compared to out of form higher end players. I have a feeling herdman won't have much variation from his WC squad. 

Cornelius, Zator, Abzi, Loturi, Priso, Brym, Shaf are all guys who haven't contributed significantly to CMNT yet. I'd be surprised if that many new-ish faces are included. I think cornelius is called and then maybe 1 new-ish CM and 1 attacker.

I am all for expanding our pool but that doesnt seem like herdmans MO

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Just now, Bigandy said:

I am all for expanding our pool but that doesnt seem like herdmans MO

Herdman did it at the beginning of WCQ. He called in Alistair Johnston, gave him playing time and then never looked back.

He called in Theo Corbeanu too.

He'll create a new brotherhood with 2026 in mind.

[Bigandy]

10 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Herdman did it at the beginning of WCQ. He called in Alistair Johnston, gave him playing time and then never looked back.

He called in Theo Corbeanu too.

He'll create a new brotherhood with 2026 in mind.

I think theres some differences though. The early WCQ squad we had included ZBG, Corbeanu, Sturing, Ferreira, gutierrez etc. This was a time when he was learning his player pool and before we were able to entice a number of duals to commit. Once he found his player pool, then the only time a new face came in was when a player becomes clearly better than the alternative or have higher potential. Think of Ali, Ugbo, David, Kone, Buchanan. Are there 6-8 of the "new" players preforming with the same potential/quality as these examples? Maybe 1 or 2 but I don't think enough to drastically change herdmans selection.

Of course the 2026 brotherhood will be different but his changes to the squad are usually pretty mild with only 1 or 2 new faces per window.
Is abzi clearly better than raheem or laryea/davies as back up Lb's? Is zator clearly better than Kennedy/waterman/mcnaughton? Is Shaf/brym clearly better than Ugbo/Millar? 

I dont think herdman will make changes for the sake of changes so 6-8 new faces in a 24 man squad feels like an awful lot all at once. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

16 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

This was a time when he was learning his player pool 

I think part of him knows he needs to do this all over; he needs to learn the player pool again.

8 new faces? Too many. But I think 6 is the upper limit of what is possible.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Bigandy]

2 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

I think part of him knows he needs to do this all over; he needs to learn the player pool again.

8 new faces? Too many. But I think 6 is the upper limit of what is possible.

Why does he need to relearn the player pool? Hes been working with the majority of the squad for several years. I am sure he knows he will need to replace some players and have youngsters/duals come into the pool, but thats not a complete relearning of the pool, but rather adding players. Assuming we go with a 24 man squad (which I can't see being bigger with all the budget cut drama) Then 8 WC players will be dropped in favour of 6 new faces. 
 
Dropped - Kaye, Millar, Fraser, Ugbo, Spoony, Waterman, Piette, Cornelius/kennedy ???

Replacements - Loturi, Priso, Shaf/Corbeanu, Brym, abzi, Zator.

Is zator above cornelius, kennedy, or waterman. I don't think so. Zats is also the oldest of these CB's. 

Is Loturi/Priso better than Kaye or piette? I dont think so but maybe they gets in for potential. Hard to see piette being dropped with his experience and being a specialist CDM. 

Is shaf better than millar/spoony - I don't think so but maybe he gets in based on form. 
I could also see corbeanu getting into the squad.

Is abzi required when we have laryea, davies and tons of Left footed CB's? No

Is Brym above Ugbo. Not even close in terms of ability. Form is on bryms side but ugbo is such a better player. 

I just can't see herdman dropping 6 experienced players who are all arguably better than their counterparts for inexperienced players. 

Maybe 1 of corbeanu or shaf, and maybe a new CM but after that, it feels unlikely for more changes. 

As a fan, I want lots of new faces. As a coach, I wouldnt want to aggressively mix with the squad when its easier to slowly integrate new guys. 

[Boominbooty]

Hasn't Atiba retired? As much as I like the guy I think it is time to move on. Maybe one last swan song in Toronto? 

[Shway]

A big factor that you would have to note is that we won’t see 3 window games as much. So you are right that 26 wouldn’t be necessary, but that also means that squad rotation will be less.

My other rationale was what’s the point in bringing in Wotherspoon if he’s not going to play over Osorio, Staq, Kone, Hutch, or Kaye? It makes sense to bring in “the future brotherhood”. Same thing goes for other positions.

I didn’t consider in form, as much as I consider game shape/match fitness especially for fringe players. 

Kennedy, Millar, Wotherspoon, Ugbo all haven’t been making their club teams, and also haven’t been the difference also. 

So again, why not get new guys blooded  in, acquainted with the program/system regardless if they have no plan to be played. The other guys won’t anyways. 

[Shway]

4 minutes ago, Boominbooty said:

Hasn't Atiba retired? As much as I like the guy I think it is time to move on. Maybe one last swan song in Toronto? 

He says when he wants to retire. Its up to the coach to say otherwise. 

[Shway]

Game in curaçao If predict we go 3 at the back and it could look like:

Borjan
Johnston-Vitoria-Miller
Buch-Kone-Staq-Hutch-Davies
David-Larin

OTB:
Laryea, Osorio, Kaye, Cavallini 

[kacbru]

37 minutes ago, Shway said:

A big factor that you would have to note is that we won’t see 3 window games as much. So you are right that 26 wouldn’t be necessary, but that also means that squad rotation will be less.

I don't think we ever had a squad of 26 for WCQ - even in 3 game windows.  In fact, I recall the smaller squads including players that were injured and had no intention of ever playing, which is why Campagna was a travelling practice player to make up the numbers for training.

[VinceA]

Guys like Tahith Chong still being delusional and holding out hope that the Netherlands will call-up a guy in the Championship.

[Rougeisthecolour]

Any ideas when the CMNT plan to announce the roster for this window? 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

7 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Why does he need to relearn the player pool? Hes been working with the majority of the squad for several years.

Yes. Obviously. I meant beyond the 30 guys he has called the most over the last few years.

6 hours ago, Shway said:

Game in curaçao If predict we go 3 at the back and it could look like:

Borjan
Johnston-Vitoria-Miller
Buch-Kone-Staq-Hutch-Davies
David-Larin

OTB:
Laryea, Osorio, Kaye, Cavallini 

We've been over this before @Shway ...

https://www.concacaf.com/en/nations-league/game-details?matchid=626335

[kacbru]

4 hours ago, Rougeisthecolour said:

Any ideas when the CMNT plan to announce the roster for this window? 

Hahahahaha!

[Ottawafan]

Will anyone who was bubble for Qatar and left off get a better chance to be called in now ( providing they are in game shape )?

[Shway]

7 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

We've been over this before @Shway ...

https://www.concacaf.com/en/nations-league/game-details?matchid=626335

My bad. 
I thought it was Raheem. 

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, Ottawafan said:

Will anyone who was bubble for Qatar and left off get a better chance to be called in now ( providing they are in game shape )?

I would think..  Hoillet is injured, Hutch and Fraser not playing.  Waterman is hurt, but not sure how long.  Johnston and Edwards will miss the first game with card accumulation.  Pantemis is hurt.

That's possibly 6, with Edwards being skipped.  

[Shway]

39 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I would think..  Hoillet is injured, Hutch and Fraser not playing.  Waterman is hurt, but not sure how long.  Johnston and Edwards will miss the first game with card accumulation.  Pantemis is hurt.

That's possibly 6, with Edwards being skipped.  

There's also the possibility that no extras will be called up. Less money to go around....

[Shway]

17 hours ago, VinceA said:

Guys like Tahith Chong still being delusional and holding out hope that the Netherlands will call-up a guy in the Championship.

TBH I want all these countries to get their duals in. I want Jamaica to get all their English guys, Suriname & Curacao to get their Dutch guys, Haiti to get their French players, and DR... 

Stronger Concacaf means better football and a stronger Canada. 

[VinceA]

7 minutes ago, Shway said:

TBH I want all these countries to get their duals in. I want Jamaica to get all their English guys, Suriname & Curacao to get their Dutch guys, Haiti to get their French players, and DR... 

Stronger Concacaf means better football and a stronger Canada. 

Exactly.

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, Ottawafan said:

Will anyone who was bubble for Qatar and left off get a better chance to be called in now ( providing they are in game shape )?

McNaugton was bubble and Henry is still out and Waterman isn't playing (is he fit?), but unfortunately for Lucas he has been on the bench for both TFC matches so far. 

Corbeanu (I presume) was on the bubble, but he's finding minutes hard to come by. 

Nelson was on the bubble, but his season hasn't started

Edwards was on the bubble, but I think Adekugbe will retain his place despite the turmoil in Turkey. I suppose Abzi may be considered bubble as well, but he never was part of the senior group officially. 

Edit - I forgot Brym. I don't think he's done enough post-Qatar, but with Hoilett out injured maybe he gets a chance. I would prefer Corbeanu or Nelson, even with the latter still in pre-season. 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Obinna

[Ivan]

55 minutes ago, Shway said:

TBH I want all these countries to get their duals in. I want Jamaica to get all their English guys, Suriname & Curacao to get their Dutch guys, Haiti to get their French players, and DR... 

Stronger Concacaf means better football and a stronger Canada. 

This I don't agree with.  England B, Holland B & C teams, France C team make Concacaf look shoddy.  And all these teams made up of players that never step foot in the country other than to play soccer games. 

[Obinna]

49 minutes ago, Ivan said:

This I don't agree with.  England B, Holland B & C teams, France C team make Concacaf look shoddy.  And all these teams made up of players that never step foot in the country other than to play soccer games. 

I agree with you in the sense it looks kind of shoddy on concacaf, but part of me also feels it is what it is. This happens in Africa, maybe not to the same extent, but it's pretty common for former these french colonies to have a 3rd or even half of the players born in France. Again, not exactly as extreme as over here, since some of these guys were born in France and grey up in West Africa, or vice versa, but whatever I guess. I consider it a "quirk" of our region.

With respect to the quality going up, I would say it's a good thing. I would rather a Suriname that looks like Holland C than a Suriname with all their guys being domestic based and playing in a semi-pro league. Over time I would love to see the Suriname league grow and eventually have some legitimate homegrown guys sprinkled in with the European and Eredivisie-heavy national team selections, but I think for the foreseeable future we won't see many domestics break out.