New national women's soccer league

[Colonel Green]

Matheson did an interview on the Footy Prime Broadscast earlier this week. Discussing the discussions with prospective investors/ownership groups, she indicated that a lot of the meetings they've been having have been with foreign investors, who she's found thus far tend to be more interested in putting money in because they come from countries where women's pro soccer already exists.

[The Ref]

7 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Matheson did an interview on the Footy Prime Broadscast earlier this week. Discussing the discussions with prospective investors/ownership groups, she indicated that a lot of the meetings they've been having have been with foreign investors, who she's found thus far tend to be more interested in putting money in because they come from countries where women's pro soccer already exists.

Interesting.  A Canadian league with foreign money!  The early exit of Canada at the WWC probably is not doing favours for Matheson strategy.

[red card]

Matheson says in Globe article that the 4th team will be announced by year end. So, that doesn't leave much of a window to add 4 more. Though, like with ATO, foreign owners can get a club up and running pretty quickly.

Athletic article on the Swedish league says their 51% ownership by supporters rule has hurt their growth since it turns off foreign owners. 

For 2003-04, it was ranked as Europe's best. It was second to third best in most years between 2004-2018. But this year, Sweden is behind the traditional big 5 and will fall behind Portugal & Denmark next year. 

Pros of the 51% rule benefit the men's league: More competitive than almost anywhere on the continent. Four different teams have won the Allsvenskan in the past five years. Ticket prices are low, crowd numbers are strong, and the atmospheres are excellent. And for some, no VAR since fans voted against it.

But with women's league needing investment, there isn't enough money. So, they're shifting to becoming a development league. Hammarby has focused on scouting through analytics. Last year, they signed Cooney-Cross from Melbourne Victory who then broke into the Matildas starting 11 and appears to be set for a nice transfer.

League is still growing in terms of tv revenue and crowds but not at the pace of WSL or liga F.

https://theathletic.com/4750081/2023/08/05/sweden-uswnt-womens-world-cup/?campaign=7361260&source=fulltime_newsletter

 

 

[Colonel Green]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

... “Slow and steady is not the route Project 8 is going. It’s going big or go home. We know that's the secret to success in Canada,” she told TSN. “This is a professional product. The secret is we get as much money into it as possible… That's how you grow this product.” ...

Can anyone think of a good example of where this has proven to be the secret of success for a fledgling domestic Canadian pro sports league? I can think of several examples of it leading to going home after a lot of money was lost. Hopefully that's just empty rhetoric to avoid a negative headline from what can still at times be a sports media with an anti-soccer agenda and they are keeping things rational and grounded in reality behind the scenes.

[Ansem]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

“Slow and steady is not the route Project 8 is going. It’s going big or go home. We know that's the secret to success in Canada,” she told TSN. “This is a professional product. The secret is we get as much money into it as possible… That's how you grow this product.” ...

Wasn't this what the CSL did? I can see why they didn't like the CSB approach. I wish them well but they are in for a brutal reality check

[Colonel Green]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

I can see why they didn't like the CSB approach.

The CSB approach of not doing anything?

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

The CSB approach of not doing anything?

Starting slow and they were doing something - just not fast enough for the women. CPL took years to launch but somehow they expected the W league to launch even faster I guess

Edited August 14, 2023 by Ansem

[Onelessstar]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

I wish them well but they are in for a brutal reality check.

I have fears of this, also. It's unfortunate but, I believe (in a large regard) that a successful, sustaining Canadian professional women's soccer league has one chance to get it right. I hope they do. 

[Soro17]

On 8/14/2023 at 1:28 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

... “Slow and steady is not the route Project 8 is going. It’s going big or go home. We know that's the secret to success in Canada,” she told TSN. “This is a professional product. The secret is we get as much money into it as possible… That's how you grow this product.” ...

Can anyone think of a good example of where this has proven to be the secret of success for a fledgling domestic Canadian pro sports league? I can think of several examples of it leading to going home after a lot of money was lost. Hopefully that's just empty rhetoric to avoid a negative headline from what can still at times be a sports media with an anti-soccer agenda and they are keeping things rational and grounded in reality behind the scenes.

Roller Hockey International (RHI) - went big and then went home. Memories of the Vancouver Voodoo are starting to fade sadly. 

[BearcatSA]

On 8/14/2023 at 1:28 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

... “Slow and steady is not the route Project 8 is going. It’s going big or go home. We know that's the secret to success in Canada,” she told TSN. “This is a professional product. The secret is we get as much money into it as possible… That's how you grow this product.” ...

Can anyone think of a good example of where this has proven to be the secret of success for a fledgling domestic Canadian pro sports league? I can think of several examples of it leading to going home after a lot of money was lost. Hopefully that's just empty rhetoric to avoid a negative headline from what can still at times be a sports media with an anti-soccer agenda and they are keeping things rational and grounded in reality behind the scenes.

After crapping the sheets Down Under, and if they further the downward trend by losing the upcoming Jamaica tie for the Olympics, I think they'll be kaput.  There is no NT momentum upon which to build.

Edited August 23, 2023 by BearcatSA

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Was reading elsewhere that the Jamaica game is already a sellout which suggests there is still plenty of interest in the CWNT, if true. At some point the investors in a new national soccer league might ask themselves what is actually going to be sustainable looking at this rationally rather than what do we aspire to having on an emotional level. Doesn't look like it's going to be this lot unfortunately but stranger things have happened.

[Trois Reds]

Excuse the rant:

The reason we've been crapping the bed in World Cups has been a lack of a league.  Almost every World Cup we've been about the only country without a league, and we wonder why we keep losing.  Jamaica has a league.  Nigeria has a league.  Hell, Vietnam and the Philippines have leagues.

Weren't we supposed to be looking at a women's (and men's) league when the women hosted the World Cup?  At least we were in talks for an NWSL team in Toronto or Vancouver.  That was in like 2013.  How many more years do we wait? 10, 20?  When we've dropped to 30th ranked in the world? 40th?  At that point, any idea of a league will be gone.  We wasted our years when the women were winning the Olympics (and hosting).  We don't have time to wait another two decades for investors. 

I understand where Matheson is coming from.  Potentially the last chance for starting this would be around 2026, when interest in soccer is high again.  But it is also the only way we're not going to start sliding down the FIFA rankings and start consistently losing WCQ games to Mexico, Jamaica, or anyone else. 

Just my two cents.

[Colonel Green]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:11 PM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Was reading elsewhere that the Jamaica game is already a sellout which suggests there is still plenty of interest in the CWNT, if true. At some point the investors in a new national soccer league might ask themselves what is actually going to be sustainable looking at this rationally rather than what do we aspire to having on an emotional level. Doesn't look like it's going to be this lot unfortunately but stranger things have happened.

There is nothing that suggests they aren't factoring in sustainability.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Can only assume you missed the stuff about going big or going home.

On 8/24/2023 at 3:47 AM, Trois Reds said:

...Weren't we supposed to be looking at a women's (and men's) league when the women hosted the World Cup?  At least we were in talks for an NWSL team in Toronto or Vancouver.  That was in like 2013.  How many more years do we wait? 10, 20?  When we've dropped to 30th ranked in the world? 40th?...

Don't remember a women's league being the main focus of the Easton Report. From what I remember the CSA's goal at that point was very much a men's pro league and that continued as the top priority into the CanPL era. Project 8 is a sisters are doing it for themselves type initiative because they have lost patience with the CSA and CSB ever taking the women's league angle seriously. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Matheson talking foreign investment but shunning the CPL, which has pioneering pro women's experience through Atletico de Madrid, and ignoring an economic model with Mediapro, also at the vanguard in supporting the women's game, is counterproductive, obstinate and arrogant AF.

There's know-how readily available but she thinks they can do their CSB- free thing, basically for subjective reasons, turning their backs on major synergies readily available.

Won't work. First, she has no experience. Then, you can't premise the project on drawing exclusionary red lines all over the place. After, even a very good case scenario gives you less fans than the CPL, meaning your salary structure will end up weaker as well. The quality difference between the Project 8 league and NWSL is likely to be greater than the MLS - CPL gap.

Posturing won't give us a sustainable league, but they seem to need the poses to drive their model.

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Matheson talking foreign investment but shunning the CPL, which has pioneering pro women's experience through Atletico de Madrid, and ignoring an economic model with Mediapro, also at the vanguard in supporting the women's game, is counterproductive, obstinate and arrogant AF.

There's know-how readily available but she thinks they can do their CSB- free thing, basically for subjective reasons, turning their backs on major synergies readily available.

Won't work. First, she has no experience. Then, you can't premise the project on drawing exclusionary red lines all over the place. After, even a very good case scenario gives you less fans than the CPL, meaning your salary structure will end up weaker as well. The quality difference between the Project 8 league and NWSL is likely to be greater than the MLS - CPL gap.

Posturing won't give us a sustainable league, but they seem to need the poses to drive their model.

Doing business with a chip on your shoulder is unwise. On top of that, I have a feeling that they will purposely try to compete with CPL just to try and prove a point instead of meeting with them and found common grounds for the good of the game.

No f'n idea why Canada is this way - very disappointing

[rkomar]

Or maybe they talked to the CPL, got no indication that they would get involved in the action anytime soon, and went on ahead without them?

[narduch]

 

 

[red card]

Sportico did their first ever NWSL valuation rankings. 

Instructive for the new Project 8 league teams is that Angel City FC is the most valued at US$180m. They have likely become the most valuable women's team in the world by forging a different path. Their $31m annual revenue is also the highest in the league. Their $11m from sponsors is higher than some MLS teams.

Average value of an NWSL team is $66m with average revenue of $9.7m. Sportico applied a 7.1 multiple to revenues. They give MLS the highest at 10.2 due to potential growth while they give the Premier League 4.4 because of relegation risk and less scarcity value. All of these multiples are way higher than applied for big tech stocks that generate US$100b+ in annual revenues.

Recently, the WSL said they want to have 1 billion pounds of club & league annual revenue in a decade. NWSL revenue is now over $100m but will announce a new media deal for next year and likely to average 10k in attendance for the first time which would finally beat WUSA's average attendance of 8102 from all the way back in 2001. It took MLS about 25 years to breach the US$1b mark for revenues.

 

[red card]

Something's coming.

 

[red card]

P8 put out new content but not new info. But Canadian Tire sponsored it. Visa also sponsoring OneSoccer Today clips on women's football discussions.

 

[Kent]

In the TSN pre-game of Sinclair's final game they had Diana Matheson speaking. She mentioned they have a couple of team announcements early next year (I think she said January/February but didn't explicitly say there would be an announcement in each). She also mentioned she thinks they will be done selling teams (at least for the inaugural season) around March.

[red card]

With PWHL launching today, while there are major differences, it does provide a bit of a framework of what to expect from a Project 8 league launch.

For 24 games across 6 teams, 6 players get paid at least $80k and max 9 players can get paid the $35k minimum. Average salary is $55k.

Toronto was lone team to sell out all their games. Ottawa will break North American pro women's hockey league attendance record at their first game at TD Place.

Players from 12 countries represented but only 1 each from 7 of the countries. Canadian players make up 57% of the rosters.

21% of the players have come straight out of the NCAA.

With less than 6 months to get ready for launch, none of the teams have nicknames or logos. There was a leak of copyrighted nicknames but it got lots of negative feedback online. 

If the likes of Mediapro don't buy P8 league media rights, then they'll have to go the PWHL media distribution route. Since there are no financial gains to reap from rights, PWHL had no other option than go for reach.

TSN/TSN+ will have 34 games, SN/SN+ with 17 & CBC/Gem will have 18. French coverage for Montreal games are on RDS or Radio-Canada/Ici Tou. No national deal in the US but MSG (NY) and NESN (Boston) will carry their local team games. All games are also freely available worldwide on PWHL's Youtube channel. The league is also taking care of game production. Canadian commentators are a mix of people from CBC, TSN & Athletic. CBC did produce the opening game's pre game and intermission shows hosted by Andi Petrillo.

 

[JamboAl]

I’ll let you all know what it’s like.  Bought half season tickets for the team here in Ottawa and excited to see the product.