New national women's soccer league

[narduch]

6 hours ago, Kent said:

Do you have examples of that? I thought AFC typically means Athletic Football Club or Association Football Club. I'm having a hard time finding examples though. Sunderland I believe is Association Football Club. I found one source saying Bournemouth is Association Football Club but another saying it's a riff off of Athletic Football Club, but it doesn't actually stand for anything, they made AFC at the start of the name to get it to show up first alphabetically.

I've never heard the "A Fans Club" thing so I'm curious which teams use that if you know of any.

I thought Wimbeldon was a famous example.

But they're not.

So no idea where I heard that.

Please ignore that comment and carry on lol

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 hours ago, red card said:

...They're following CSB model as owners are buying a piece of the league as well as their own franchise for the $1 million...Money is there to build smallish stadiums for the CPL & the women's league. But soccer hasn't been a Canadian political, societal & corporate priority...

Using the f-word about CanPL clubs used to drive certain people on here apoplectic, but reality appears to have slowly sunk in. On the second bit quoted this is where CSB dropped the ball to a certain extent. That statement doesn't hold as true on the women's side of things, hence the hearings in Ottawa right now where any CMNT angle to the proceedings is just a sidebar.

Women's soccer isn't viewed as a threat to the CFL and there's very little danger of a Women's CFL ever emerging so Project 8 may prove to be the easier way to attract infrastructure money over the next decade or so. The CanPL/CSB project was geared towards using the 2026 World Cup to do that but midway through 2023 there's little sign of it happening now that it's only a co-hosting at two MLS stadia.

[Colonel Green]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:41 PM, Gian-Luca said:

Its also a bit curious that MLSE didn't step up to the plate here

Is it? What would make you think they would be interested in a project like this?

Edited April 27, 2023 by Colonel Green

[narduch]

MLSE are run by 2 of the least innovative corporations in Canada.

It's no wonder they wouldn't be involved 

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Is it? What would make you think they would be interested in a project like this?

Other than possibly for optics, I didn't especially think they would be interested. But perhaps they have so much money that they don't care that it looks like they are snubbing women's soccer.

[fil]

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[red card]

Rollins take: 

Matheson’s claims are printed without challenge. That’s likely because the core message — that a women’s league is long overdue and that, in fact, it is shameful that we don’t have one yet — is true. Everyone wants this to work.

All of our hope must come from trusting that the money is there and that the planning is done. We must believe that Matheson, who has no business experience running a project of this size, can plan and start a league in two years time, when it took the CanPL six years to get to launch. And that she can do this while refusing to work with the people who have direct experience launching a league because, well…I’ve yet to hear a good reason why she refuses to work with anyone involved at the CanPL level, nor any benefit from not doing so.

 

[Ansem]

On 4/30/2023 at 1:52 PM, red card said:

We must believe that Matheson, who has no business experience running a project of this size, can plan and start a league in two years time, when it took the CanPL six years to get to launch. And that she can do this while refusing to work with the people who have direct experience launching a league because, well…I’ve yet to hear a good reason why she refuses to work with anyone involved at the CanPL level, nor any benefit from not doing so

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Looks like Duane R is still shilling for the CSB investors even though they didn't give him the media job he was angling for. Have to stay in the good books with powerful insiders if you want to maintain access and receive scoops on what is about to happen after all. This looks like a justification for not sanctioning Project 8 and there's an obvious motivation for doing that given there appears to be a belief in certain circles that doing so might tip the numbers balance where the presidential election is concerned. 

[Bison44]

HAHA, Rollins is a shill for CSB/CPL?????  Classic bird droppings!!  If anything I would say he is closer to the MLS portion of the spectrum.  

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Hopefully the league gets sanctioned OK this weekend.

[Unnamed Trialist]

18 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Looks like Duane R is still shilling for the CSB investors even though they didn't give him the media job he was angling for. Have to stay in the good books with powerful insiders if you want to maintain access and receive scoops on what is about to happen after all. This looks like a justification for not sanctioning Project 8 and there's an obvious motivation for doing that given there appears to be a belief in certain circles that doing so might tip the numbers balance where the presidential election is concerned. 

Our ever-rational, serious, factual fellow poster.

[narduch]

We still don't even have a league and the Americans are getting a 2nd 

 

[red card]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

We still don't even have a league and the Americans are getting a 2nd 

 

The US men's pyramid is messy and it looks like the women are on the same pathway. The USSF shouldn't be sanctoning another D1 women's league but given NWSL is a closed league, they don't have much choice if USL SL meets USSF standards.

USL SL will the first North American league to follow the European season calendar with a winter break. The league will also have no drafts and no age banding. They can also pick players from 44 teams going to 65 in the W League and from academies to be launched this year.

Minnesota Aurora of the W League 2022 average attendance of 5.1k was higher than 3 NWSL teams. USL SL say their salaries will be in line with NWSL's US$36.4k minimum. So, Project8 now faces more competition for players. 

No dollar amount mentioned but it should be cheaper than the US$50 million NWSL expansion fee. Washington team is in partnership with DC United. Their stadium is the current home of NWSL's Washington team. 

While the NWSL has 2 expansion teams coming soon, 3 teams are currently up for sale.

 

[red card]

CIBC promo for new league. Sinclair has had a prominent presence so far.

 

[red card]

McCown podcast without McCown had Matheson on as a guest.

New items she mentioned were 8 teams to be locked down by the end of the year. Looking at Maitimes, Montreal/Quebec City, Ottawa/Hamilton/KW/London, Winnipeg/Saskatoon/Edmonton and Vancouver/Van Island. Need 8 league sponsors.

Coming in hot in terms of league quality. Expecting to be 6th or 7th best in the world. Max 7 internationals. Canada has third largest pool of players and more progressive socially & culturally in terms of women sports than rest of the world. Looking for 4k average attendance in year 1. Projecting revenues to be 40% sponsors and 40% tickets/hospitality. Forecasting no media revenue for first 3 years.

Matheson said some in media get it, some don't. Shannon/Deitsch said it will be tough to get TSN/SN given their budget cuts/layoffs. Shannon's said it would also get lost as women's hockey has been on SN. CBC may be the best and likely linear tv option.

Geography, media and infrastructure are main challenges. 

 

Update: MCCown tweeted he is recovering from 2 strokes.

https://twitter.com/FadooBobcat/status/1674843986198921231

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by red card

[Unnamed Trialist]

A few updates and Matheson saying how Canada doing well at the WC would give the league a push.

https://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/opinion/2023/07/18/canadas-first-womens-pro-soccer-league-is-making-progress-a-rousing-world-cup-run-would-help.html?utm_source=share-bar&utm_medium=user&utm_campaign=user-share

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[dyslexic nam]

On 6/30/2023 at 5:06 PM, red card said:

McCown podcast without McCown had Matheson on as a guest.

New items she mentioned were 8 teams to be locked down by the end of the year. Looking at Maitimes, Montreal/Quebec City, Ottawa/Hamilton/KW/London, Winnipeg/Saskatoon/Edmonton and Vancouver/Van Island. Need 8 league sponsors.

Coming in hot in terms of league quality. Expecting to be 6th or 7th best in the world. Max 7 internationals. Canada has third largest pool of players and more progressive socially & culturally in terms of women sports than rest of the world. Looking for 4k average attendance in year 1. Projecting revenues to be 40% sponsors and 40% tickets/hospitality. Forecasting no media revenue for first 3 years.

Matheson said some in media get it, some don't. Shannon/Deitsch said it will be tough to get TSN/SN given their budget cuts/layoffs. Shannon's said it would also get lost as women's hockey has been on SN. CBC may be the best and likely linear tv option.

Geography, media and infrastructure are main challenges. 

 

Update: MCCown tweeted he is recovering from 2 strokes.

https://twitter.com/FadooBobcat/status/1674843986198921231

 

Average target if 4k attendance per game seems ambitious.  Given what we have seen with CPL, I am pretty skeptical they can come close to this.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  It would be great if it works and they can sustain a high level on interest but the skeptic in me think it may be getting built on some unfounded assumptions (or even counterintuitive insofar as they are aiming at average attendance higher than our D1 men’s league).    

I hope they can prove me wrong and exceed expectations.  

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Average target if 4k attendance per game seems ambitious.  Given what we have seen with CPL, I am pretty skeptical they can come close to this.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  It would be great if it works and they can sustain a high level on interest but the skeptic in me think it may be getting built on some unfounded assumptions (or even counterintuitive insofar as they are aiming at average attendance higher than our D1 men’s league).    

I hope they can prove me wrong and exceed expectations.  

There are some NWSL teams that get around that much

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

There are some NWSL teams that get around that much

Yeah. It it is now a well-established league, that can pay top some players, and probably in very specific markets.  Aiming to replicate that in your first year given some of the markets they have ID’d still seems ambitious to me.  

Like I said, I hope it works.  I just can’t see it getting the kind of support needed to sustain it.  
 

[Kent]

11 hours ago, narduch said:

There are some NWSL teams that get around that much

I really didn't know at all how many fans go to NWSL games, so I wasn't sure if you meant top end or bottom end.

For anyone else like me that doesn't have the NWSL frame of reference, it looks like this season there is one NWSL team over 20k per game. 3 teams between 10k and 20k. 6 teams between 5k and 10k. The bottom 2 teams are averaging 4k and change.

[Watchmen]

12 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Average target if 4k attendance per game seems ambitious.  Given what we have seen with CPL, I am pretty skeptical they can come close to this.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  It would be great if it works and they can sustain a high level on interest but the skeptic in me think it may be getting built on some unfounded assumptions (or even counterintuitive insofar as they are aiming at average attendance higher than our D1 men’s league).    

I hope they can prove me wrong and exceed expectations.  

Since they're not partnering with the CPL, I think they almost need to avoid those markets.  I realize that gets tricky, and definitely some of the markets are certainly earmarked for future CPL expansion.  But two teams in a developing soccer market doesn't help anyone.

And I share your skepticism.  Hope they succeed, not sure they will.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Watchmen

[red card]

19 hours ago, Kent said:

I really didn't know at all how many fans go to NWSL games, so I wasn't sure if you meant top end or bottom end.

For anyone else like me that doesn't have the NWSL frame of reference, it looks like this season there is one NWSL team over 20k per game. 3 teams between 10k and 20k. 6 teams between 5k and 10k. The bottom 2 teams are averaging 4k and change.

There has been a step up in attendance with the additions of ACFC and San Diego Wave. But there are usually a couple of teams seeing declines and a couple of teams flat. YTD, Chicago & Louisville are down 31% & 10% respectively.

In the first 5 years, average attendance was 4-6k. Only the Thorns averaged more than 10k until ACFC came into the league. There has been bump ups post US wins at 2015 & 2019 but the first step up came in year 7. Covid knocked it back but the attendance has more than recovered. 

So, this provides an attendance pathway for Project 8 & CPL. Good performance at Olympics & World Cups by Canada women will help averages. But getting supporters engaged in new ways a la ACFC or similar to the men's game a la Thorns have had bigger attendance impact and more sustainable attendance.

HFX is the Thorns of the CPL. Significant step up in average league attendance won't likely be seen till 2026. For those who clamour for CPL to be on linear tv, similar to MLS, NWSL attendance wasn't driven by being on linear tv even before the streaming age. There has been only 4-9 matches per year on secondary cable tv channels such as FS2, ESPN2/News & Lifetime in first 7 years. In 2020, at the height of covid, a couple of Challenge Cup matches were shown on CBS. In 2021-22, there has about 4-5 matches shown on CBS, with rest on CBSSN, P+ or twitch.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by red card

[Ozzie_the_parrot]