New national women's soccer league

[Dominic94]

10 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

They had plans to have plans for a women's league.

I’m glad they weren’t relied upon.

[DoyleG]

11 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

They had plans to have plans for a women's league.

Even if the MLS teams were all to sign up (not out of the goodness of their hearts), they would still have some teams to fill in. 

CanPL and CSB would still get involved one way or another.

[toontownman]

33 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Wonder how the CPL feels about this, they had plans for a woman’s league.

I imagine they are on the phone begging to be a part of it. That said, I don't think there is any real mandatory need for them to be a part of it. Branding wise and organization/structure wise it's neat and tidy for the CSA/CSB but if the CPL doesn't have to plough money into it, thats not necessarily a bad thing. 

It's a fingers in the pie thing CSB will have to get over but that's not necessarily a bad thing for anyone either. I just hope they are stupid enough not to still try their own. Just back this one.

Would be fantastic to have a women's team and men's team in the CPL markets. Might be harder for the CFL stadium teams but Halifax, Pacific, York and down the line saskatoon.. fingers crossed.

Edited December 6, 2022 by toontownman

[Cblake]

1 minute ago, DoyleG said:

Even if the MLS teams were all to sign up (not out of the goodness of their hearts), they would still have some teams to fill in. 

CanPL and CSB would still get involved one way or another.

In some ways this league could actually hurt the CPL, now if I am a prospective owner or corporate partner, I have options for where to go. Also, cities may end up with proposals for both and be able t choose which one is better fit from their perspective. With what has gone on with say Hockey Canada some will see an opportunity for making positive change and associating their brand with it. 

[Gian-Luca]

Hmm...first thoughts are that this isn't quite the good news that it initially seemed as I assumed the  women's league announcement would be in association with all the parties that were looking to develop a league. It seems like Sinclair & Matheson have gone their own way and announced a league before its really come to fruition (2 teams don't make a league), perhaps thinking that if they announce something now, the other folks that were doing their due diligence into developing a full league will be forced to come on board rather than start a rival league (I can't recall the name of the woman the CSA hired earlier this year to become the director of women's professional soccer, but I have a feeling she might have a "WTF?" reception to this news, unless she is also involved, but from what I've seen it doesn't sound like it).

It also strikes me that they are taking the exact opposite philosophy from the men's team. Herdman wants Canada's players to continue to go to Europe to play at a higher level, with those spots on MLS (or CPL) teams taken by those leagues developing new young Canadian talent. This new women's league venture seems to want to have the national team players leave the higher level of play in Europe or NWSL and come back to Canada to play at (what will have to be) a lower level. I wonder how Bev Priestman feels about that?

As for Sinclair's statements that this will be by women, for women & Matheson saying they want female owners...well, those are definitely lofty goals. I have a feeling that will make things trickier if they stick to that sort of exclusivity. I do wish them the best of luck however. It's a bold venture.

[Cblake]

3 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Hmm...first thoughts are that this isn't quite the good news that it initially seemed as I assumed the  women's league announcement would be in association with all the parties that were looking to develop a league. It seems like Sinclair & Matheson have gone their own way and announced a league before its really come to fruition (2 teams don't make a league), perhaps thinking that if they announce something now, the other folks that were doing their due diligence into developing a full league will be forced to come on board rather than start a rival league (I can't recall the name of the woman the CSA hired earlier this year to become the director of women's professional soccer, but I have a feeling she might have a "WTF?" reception to this news, unless she is also involved, but from what I've seen it doesn't sound like it).

It also strikes me that they are taking the exact opposite philosophy from the men's team. Herdman wants Canada's players to continue to go to Europe to play at a higher level, with those spots on MLS (or CPL) teams taken by those leagues developing new young Canadian talent. This new women's league venture seems to want to have the national team players leave the higher level of play in Europe or NWSL and come back to Canada to play at (what will have to be) a lower level. I wonder how Bev Priestman feels about that?

As for Sinclair's statements that this will be by women, for women & Matheson saying they want female owners...well, those are definitely lofty goals. I have a feeling that will make things trickier if they stick to that sort of exclusivity. I do wish them the best of luck however. It's a bold venture.

I really do not see the Whitecaps being out there front and centre in the initial announcement if it was simply a trial balloon at this point. 

[Ansem]

 .

Edited December 6, 2022 by Ansem

[Soccerpro2]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/article-canada-women-pro-soccer-league/

Project 8 envisions four teams in the East and four in the West, plus two big tournaments each season. It says its player salaries will be similar to those in existing women’s leagues, such as in the U.S.-based National Women’s Soccer League. In its 2022 season, the decade-old NWSL had a minimum salary of US$35,000 and a maximum of US$75,000, plus allocation money beyond its US$1.1-million salary cap, to spend on select superstars.

 

Ms. Matheson and Mr. Gilbert are fellow MBAs at the Smith School of Business in Toronto.

Mr. Gilbert points to the federal government’s promise of $25.3-million to target gender equity across sports by 2035 and hopes the league may qualify for some of that.

“We’re hoping that the Canadian government is going to start putting their money where their mouth is,” he said. “Actually start investing in some sport infrastructure specifically for the women’s game.”

This league plans to play in stadiums that seat between 6,000 and 8,000 people, with tickets starting at $15. The first season will include a mix of home and road games and tournaments, including a kickoff event in Vancouver.

 

Ms. Sinclair reached out to Ryan Reynolds about the possibility of owning a franchise. The Canadian movie star already owns Welsh men’s soccer team Wrexham AFC and has publicly stated his interest in buying the NHL’s Ottawa Senators.

“He’s a good guy,” Ms. Matheson added. “I’m sure he’ll get back to us.”

1. Anticipating a similar salary structure as the NWSL from day 1 (or likely any day at all) seems unrealistic. 

2. Hoping the government gives you money for your pro sports league isn't the soundest business plan.

3. Looking forward to seeing all of these 6-8k stadiums that don't currently exist in the country. 

4. The part about Ryan Reynolds is cringeworthy. 

I think aspects of this scheme are overly optimistic.

I'm sure Matheson has been calling MLSE and Joey Saputo every week asking them to buy a club. "We'd prefer that you were a woman, Mr. Saputo, as we really want woman investors more than men, but we will do you a favour and take your money, too." Obviously having 3 MLS clubs with teams would mean only needing 4 other clubs (Foothills is already in) which is a great head start.

The CPL's saving grace has been the big mediapro contract they signed when the league launched. Without that, who knows where they would be. I doubt they out millions again only to be shut out of most Canadian cable companies and get streaming numbers in the hundreds for some games.

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Soccerpro2

[Shway]

In all seriousness the release and statements sounds like a non-profit organization.

 I’m really interested in how this is going to work, and who is going to be willing to be a philanthropist - need some wealthy Canadian women.

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

56 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

...As for Sinclair's statements that this will be by women, for women & Matheson saying they want female owners...

Given the way Victor Montagliani is reported to have handed over future CWNT marketing related revenues to CSB possibly out as far as 2038 it will be interesting to see how the CSA handles this.

[Colonel Green]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

It also strikes me that they are taking the exact opposite philosophy from the men's team. Herdman wants Canada's players to continue to go to Europe to play at a higher level, with those spots on MLS (or CPL) teams taken by those leagues developing new young Canadian talent. This new women's league venture seems to want to have the national team players leave the higher level of play in Europe or NWSL and come back to Canada to play at (what will have to be) a lower level.

Matheson has been open in the past that she wants her proposed Canadian league to aim to be an important league in its own right. Which is an achievable goal since women's leagues aren't nearly as established elsewhere.

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

As for Sinclair's statements that this will be by women, for women & Matheson saying they want female owners...well, those are definitely lofty goals. I have a feeling that will make things trickier if they stick to that sort of exclusivity. I do wish them the best of luck however. It's a bold venture.

At no point do they say they want only female owners, etc. They say that they want women to be involved at all levels.

16 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

2. Hoping the government gives you money for your pro sports league isn't the soundest business plan.

🙄

Knowing that the government is looking to provide funding for ventures like this and saying you're hopeful you'll get some is good business thinking. They are not saying it's the basis for the league.

9 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Given the way Victor Montagliani is reported to have handed over future CWNT marketing related revenues to CSB possibly out as far as 2038 it will be interesting to see how the CSA handles this.

The CSA would have to go along with this, assuming the league can nail down the rest of the money, etc. Turning down a proposal that is being fronted by their own stars when they have no viable alternative would basically burn the federation down.

[Gian-Luca]

33 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

 

At no point do they say they want only female owners, etc. They say that they want women to be involved at all levels.

Just to clarify, I didn't actually say that they wanted only female owners (given the two owners mentioned so far are not "female", that was obvious from the start). My point here was that I feel it will be trickier for them if they exclude/do not approach potential owners because they are male (or male-dominated corporations) - e.g. a situation like "Sorry Joey Saputo, but we don't want your money for our league because we have six male owners already and we need a couple of women". Again, it depends on how much they really want to stick to that concept if push comes to shove or just something they are hoping for as an aspirational & worthy goal. I've just seen the quote that they have already approached Ryan Reynolds, so it suggests the latter approach is likely to be the case, which I think is good news if that's the case.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Soccerpro2 said:

3. Looking forward to seeing all of these 6-8k stadiums that don't currently exist in the country.

Yes, the lack of any sort of discussion about this aspect is a concern. Is the plan to build them all? I think there is supposed to be a new stadium in Toronto on a smaller scale ahead of 2026. Then again, perhaps Lamport Stadium will fit the bill in Toronto - slightly larger than 8K, but not by that much. I'm assuming of course Toronto would have a team.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

If they are willing to play on temporarily painted over gridiron lines on university campuses the number of possible stadia expands considerably.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Wow such genius forced negativity from the get:go here. And from guys with a reputation on the board for not caring at all about the women's game.

I don't see any of the negatives most cite.

As a national women's league it's automatically D1 with no other pro teams above it or any pro teams competing for press or attendance, eliminating the obvious impediment the CPL has with MLS. When you go see the women, it's top flight.

That suggests CPL type attendances aren't unreasonable, as a 1+ million dollar salary cap would require.

The fan base for the women is established and hasn't dissipated since the gold medal 🥇.

They've already said they'll reduce travel costs by having conferences.

Having pro leagues in numerous CONCACAF countries sets us up for future CONCACAF club competition, a draw for fans.

Politicians humming about contributing to stadium costs have a much easier path to approval if a women's team is sharing the venue. It'll fast track infrastructure and upgrades.

Shared venues and even ownership optimize resources radically. CPL clubs have set up from scratch; in cases here, existing admin and know how are rolled in, much more efficient.

Corporate sponsorship deals with the CSA/CSB have specifically cited the women's game and growing it, but some here think corporations don't care about fulfillment of a stated mission- you're wrong. In fact all corporate deals will go faster with women's soccer alongside. 

It may be harder for One Soccer, if involved, to be blocked on cable packages because this is a powerful argument before the CRTC: presence of women's sports.

Finally, many are underestimating female wealth in Canada, and how it might be involved. Regardless, if a major corporation with male ownership decides to partner with other businesswomen and name a female club president and admin, will you keep sneering?

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

There's another factor they need to work with, the "Spanish" partners in CPL. Both Atletico and Mediapro are very active and invest and support the women's game. AtO has stated their interest in a women's league, Mediapro literally saved the Spanish collective bargaining agreement a few years ago by throwing 3 million into the pot, basically for nothing in return.

Both Cerezo at Atletico and Roures at Mediapro, who are colleagues as well producing film and tv, would want to be in.

So how do they do that without the CSB mediating and controlling?

[narduch]

Been wondering if this league squashes any chances of a Canadian NWSL team. My guess is it does.

I wonder if anyone was seriously working on a Toronto NWSL bid

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by narduch

[CanadaFan123]

$8-10 M startup? I’m sorry but this is dead in the water. Particularly as they’re looking at a 2025 start. 
 

If we are being realistic anyone with that money to spend is going to put that towards a men’s club in the lead up to the 2026 World Cup. You’d have to be an idiot not to.
 

Not to mention other factors, such as:

1) Women’s pro hockeys recent failure

2) Low chance of selling players for profit

3) High likelihood of paying wages disproportionate to revenue and being vilified if you don’t 

Does seem to be a not for profit at best. Why would anyone want to get involved in this?

The only two viable routes are to get an NWSL team or to have a women’s CPL branch that piggybacks off the current league. Anything else is a waste of time and energy.

Edited December 6, 2022 by CanadaFan123

[Ansem]

Wow... skepticism and pessimism is the Canadian way I guess. At least I respect the American who can be unbelievably annoying at overreaching and belief that being #1 is their God given right... but they do come up with a way most of the time.

We're the opposite... can't happen, won't happen, will fail, need to play in stadium with football line, travel by school bus and of course!!!! CSB as the Satan of Canadian soccer while other sees NWSL as the land of milk and honey

The F is wrong with us.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

55 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

...If we are being realistic anyone with that money to spend is going to put that towards a men’s club in the lead up to the 2026 World Cup...

Really? Is an ardent feminist with a few hundred million at her disposal likely to see it that way? CanPL and CSB appear to have been set up under the implicit assumption that only a men's domestic pro league really matters, so a women's league will have to wait until that's not just up and running but turning a healthy profit financially at some unspecified point off into the future. Key figures from the CWNT are unlikely to see it that way and in a democracy with a free enterprise based economy they can and will actively pursue their own agenda.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Been wondering if this league squashes any chances of a Canadian NWSL team. My guess is it does.

I wonder if anyone was seriously working on a Toronto NWSL bid

 

 

 

 

Michael Singh tweeted that MLSE was/is mainly interested in running a NWSL franchise. For what it's worth (and it might not be worth anything), the CSA mentioned earlier this year when they hired Breagha Carr-Harris as the new head of women's professional soccer that the approach would be two-fold - a Canadian domestic league and teams in the NWSL. They may have been thinking the women's league would be at a lower level of play & attendance that what Matheson & Sinclair have in mind.

https://www.tsn.ca/canada-soccer-hires-former-mlse-executive-as-head-of-women-s-professional-soccer-1.1796493

 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Really? Is an ardent feminist with a few hundred million at her disposal likely to see it that way? CanPL and CSB appear to have been set up under the implicit assumption that only a men's domestic pro league really matters, so a women's league will have to wait until that's not just up and running but turning a healthy profit financially at some unspecified point off into the future. Key figures from the CWNT are unlikely to see it that way and in a democracy with a free enterprise based economy they can and will actively pursue their own agenda.

Just loving the fact that even in a Women's League thread, you can't help yourself at bashing CPL and CSB. Unbelievable 

[Gian-Luca]

Here is the Singh tweet, FWIW:

 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Gian-Luca said:

Michael Singh tweeted that MLSE was/is mainly interested in running a NWSL franchise. For what it's worth (and it might not be worth anything), the CSA mentioned earlier this year when they hired Breagha Carr-Harris as the new head of women's professional soccer that the approach would be two-fold - a Canadian domestic league and teams in the NWSL. They may have been thinking the women's league would be at a lower level of play & attendance that what Matheson & Sinclair have in mind.

https://www.tsn.ca/canada-soccer-hires-former-mlse-executive-as-head-of-women-s-professional-soccer-1.1796493

 

If the CSA does go down that route than it will damage the new league - hard to believe the CanWNT would support that if they understand the implications

Besides, unlikely CONCACAF would sanction it

[CanadaFan123]

20 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Really? Is an ardent feminist with a few hundred million at her disposal likely to see it that way? CanPL and CSB appear to have been set up under the implicit assumption that only a men's domestic pro league really matters, so a women's league will have to wait until that's not just up and running but turning a healthy profit financially at some unspecified point off into the future. Key figures from the CWNT are unlikely to see it that way and in a democracy with a free enterprise based economy they can and will actively pursue their own agenda.

Yes, I suppose we can wait for 6 ardent feminists with hundreds of millions ready to throw away a fraction of their wealth. I forgot that possibility.