Vancouver Whitecaps in CPL

[SpursFlu]

As a long time supporter of the Caps I am now 100% in support of the Whitecaps leaving the MLS for the Canadian Premier League. As I've been saying for a while, with the growth of MLS and expansion the Whitecaps inevitably will become less and less relevant. I'm not really blaming the FO its just simple math and with most sponsorship and media revenue coming out of the US Vancouver doesn't stand a chance. And it's clearly getting worse. Kristian Jack actually went on the radio today and said Caps supporters should embrace being a minnow. He obviously doest understand the mentality of a Vancouverite. The only hope would be to produce 10 Alphonso Davies at once. Not likely.. I'm asking simple questions

Can they sell without relocating first? Do they retain the name and images? What's the value of the team? Would other fans support this? What would attendance look like? Would it affect their academy? Could they stay at BC Place? Is this a good idea or bad idea... thoughts?

[CDNFootballer]

14 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

As a long time supporter of the Caps I am now 100% in support of the Whitecaps leaving the MLS for the Canadian Premier League. As I've been saying for a while, with the growth of MLS and expansion the Whitecaps inevitably will become less and less relevant. I'm not really blaming the FO its just simple math and with most sponsorship and media revenue coming out of the US Vancouver doesn't stand a chance. And it's clearly getting worse. Kristian Jack actually went on the radio today and said Caps supporters should embrace being a minnow. He obviously doest understand the mentality of a Vancouverite. The only hope would be to produce 10 Alphonso Davies at once. Not likely.. I'm asking simple questions

Can they sell without relocating first? Do they retain the name and images? What's the value of the team? Would other fans support this? What would attendance look like? Would it affect their academy? Could they stay at BC Place? Is this a good idea or bad idea... thoughts?

They can sell the MLS Vancouver franchise/business unit back to MLS like Vergara did (for roughly 70 million, market value, he got in 2014) with Chivas USA or they can sell to another group who wants an MLS team in another city, like has happened in MLS previously.

They won't retain the name Vancouver Whitecaps FC unless they can work that in a deal. Don't see a problem with them staying in BC Place.

I like the idea, but think something like this happening is down the road when Canada's Division 1 CPL is more established in stature and size.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm in. But we need a 20,000 stadium back at Empire. 

[Stanley]

5 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I'm in. But we need a 20,000 stadium back at Empire. 

Or find a way to do up Swangard stadium like it was for the under 20 world cup.

[SpursFlu]

I'm not naive to think its so simple but Hastings Race track is the rumour. If you could flip the team, retain the rights of the name and have 100+ million to build at 20k stadium at PNE.  Seems like a plan.. of course its not so simple

[SpursFlu]

1 minute ago, Stanley said:

Or find a way to do up Swangard stadium like it was for the under 20 world cup.

NDP run Burnaby.. Whitecaps owners and NDP are oil and water.. it aint gonna happen till NDP is out in Burnaby

[Reign]

I personally would love to see all 3 Canadian MLS teams join the CPL. At the same time I’d like to see the salary cap abolished or greatly increased. I know people want parity but I do think teams like Forge, Valour and Cavs would be willing to spend the money and make the league more competitive overall. Keep the Canadian roster requirements that the current CPL has and it overall would increase our National Team to a greater extent as well.

 

[narduch]

This sounds closer to fan fiction than reality 

[SpursFlu]

37 minutes ago, narduch said:

This sounds closer to fan fiction than reality 

Maybe so but i really don't care about Zlatans goofy comments, I dont care that LAFC supporters are amazing, I dont care about Beckhams stadium in Miami. I dont care about these MLS storylines. I care about the Whitecaps winning and if the writing is on the wall from day 1 every year.. it's pretty discouraging and I know people in Vancouver do not see themselves as second class citizens 

Edited July 23, 2019 by SpursFlu

[youllneverwalkalone]

For me it's not about winning. It's about building a sustainable national first division. MLS is not sustainable. You can't build a 30 team first league and try to punch with the EPL and La Liga with no TV money. You can't even punch with Liga MX.

 

[Macksam]

If the Canucks can compete in the NHL, the Caps can more than compete in MLS.

[Reign]

16 minutes ago, Macksam said:

If the Canucks can compete in the NHL, the Caps can more than compete in MLS.

Caps ownership doesn’t want to spend to compete in the MLS. The Canucks have no issue spending to the cap. They aren’t similar.

[SpursFlu]

12 minutes ago, Reign said:

Caps ownership doesn’t want to spend to compete in the MLS. The Canucks have no issue spending to the cap. They aren’t similar.

Canadian hockey fans are brainwashed and are played like a fiddle by Gary Betman. NHL tv deal in Canada for 7 teams worth 200 million. TV deal in US for 23 teams worth 100 million. 

When was the last time a Canadian team won a Stanley Cup? A national embarrassment that no one is willing to admit to

Edited July 23, 2019 by SpursFlu

[Reign]

5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Canadian hockey fans are brainwashed and are played like a fiddle by Gary Betman. NHL tv deal in Canada for 7 teams worth 200 million. TV deal in US for 23 teams worth 100 million. 

When was the last time a Canadian team won a Stanley Cup? A national embarrassment that no one is willing to admit to

I really don’t understand what that has to do with anything ? All of the Canadian teams are spending to the cap other then Ottawa. The reason we haven’t seen the Canadian teams win has nothing to do with spending. Most of our teams have just had bad management. Also most UFAs are going to sign in big cities in the USA. The Canadian cities generally can’t pull high tier ufas which is a significant disadvantage.

[SpursFlu]

40 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

For me it's not about winning. It's about building a sustainable national first division. MLS is not sustainable. You can't build a 30 team first league and try to punch with the EPL and La Liga with no TV money. You can't even punch with Liga MX.

 

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting the Caps should go CPL so we can just win. It's about the the ridiculous structure of having to overcome what will soon be 29 other teams when your the red haired step child of the bunch ti begin with. Not to mention MLS is playing footsy with LigaMX. So it's getting worse before it gets better

[SpursFlu]

12 minutes ago, Reign said:

I really don’t understand what that has to do with anything ? All of the Canadian teams are spending to the cap other then Ottawa. The reason we haven’t seen the Canadian teams win has nothing to do with spending. Most of our teams have just had bad management. Also most UFAs are going to sign in big cities in the USA. The Canadian cities generally can’t pull high tier ufas which is a significant disadvantage.

Again its simple math.. why are there not more Canadian teams? Or why are there so many teams? You don't think the Jets, the Oilers etc dont have to over pay free agents? Of course they do. Vancouver has a tough time because the travel. It's a reality and we're talking hockey players. You think all things being equal, a player from Latin America is going to pick Vancouver over Houston or Atlanta or Chicago. Your making my point.. why not just focus on developing our own infastructure instead of putting resources in to someone elses

KJ is trolling Vancouver and he works for a company that 50% is owned by ESPN and the other 50% is owned by the same company that owns MLSE. And he's a Robbo buddy so his take is a joke

Edited July 23, 2019 by SpursFlu

[youllneverwalkalone]

19 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Canadian hockey fans are brainwashed and are played like a fiddle by Gary Betman. NHL tv deal in Canada for 7 teams worth 200 million. TV deal in US for 23 teams worth 100 million. 

I believe the Canadian NHL rights are $500m per season.

This is an important point because, once the expansion fees run dry, it's going to take a phenomenal TV contract for MLS to make any financial sense. I could see $200m deal next time out, but that's less than $7m per club or $9m Canadian. Long term I could see $100m annual deal in Canada if soccer can surpass Canadian football in terms of viewers. The big three could make close  $9m with local tv.

[Reign]

10 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Again its simple math.. why are there not more Canadian teams? Or why are there so many teams? You don't think the Jets, the Oilers etc dont have to over pay free agents? Of course they do. Vancouver has a tough time because the travel. It's a reality and we're talking hockey players. You think all things being equal, a player from Latin America is going to pick Vancouver over Houston or Atlanta or Chicago. Your making my point.. why not just focus on developing our own infastructure instead of putting resources in to someone elses

KJ is trolling Vancouver and he works for a company that 50% is owned by ESPN and the other 50% is owned by the same company that owns MLSE. 

Canada doesn’t have more teams because there isn’t investment groups interested in paying the expansion fee. The NHL would not restrict more Canadian teams if their was investor groups willing to actually launch a team. The last group was the Quebec City team who would have a team right now if they put the money up. They didn’t. Vegas did. 

[SpursFlu]

12 minutes ago, Reign said:

Canada doesn’t have more teams because there isn’t investment groups interested in paying the expansion fee. The NHL would not restrict more Canadian teams if their was investor groups willing to actually launch a team. The last group was the Quebec City team who would have a team right now if they put the money up. They didn’t. Vegas did. 

Because it's a rigged system based on real estate deals and investment groups. Why should Quebec City, Hamilton or Halifax be forced to put up 500million and clear every other hurdle to have a professional hockey team? And then get put in a no win situation 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

5 hours ago, Lofty said:

If CPL succeeds it will inevitably erode the fan base of the MLS franchises currently located in Canadian cities...

...or maybe interest in pro soccer will continue to steadily grow as a less soccer friendly older generation departs the scene and is replaced by a more soccer oriented younger generation and there is plenty of scope for both CanPL and MLS to thrive in the years ahead? It's a bit depressing that certain people on this particular subforum always try to turn this into a zero-sum game and were hoping for example to see the Forge vs York 9 league opener put a major dent into the TFC crowd on the same day rather than being happy to see that it had actually meant around 40k people watching pro soccer in the Golden Horeshoe rather than just 25k.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

...once the expansion fees run dry, it's going to take a phenomenal TV contract for MLS to make any financial sense...

Really? Some of the teams are able to generate into seven figures per game in matchday revenues. The idea that it's all an expansion driven Ponzi scheme doesn't really make any sense when viewed from that angle.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I am happy posters here get solace from irrelevant references to the NHL, just wonderful. 

The thread is a provocation, obviously, but the Caps deserve it. They are second last in the MLS with a game played more than last place, so really need a kick in the butt. They are a disgrace. But even then, as a disgrace of a team, they more than double the biggest crowds for CPL games. There is no comparison. The CPL will never involve the current MLS teams, I think, at least not until some major alterations take place (FIFA denying their right to play in an American league), but even then, CPL will only emerge in the MLS teams' shadows and play before our proverbial 3462 fans. 

The Voyageur Cup match this Wednesday could be epic, there will be a lot of us secretly hoping that the Caps fall, just for things to change. Although I am not at all a Cavalry fan and my real desire is to see the Whitecaps win everything, including this rigged version of the Canadian Championship the CSA has come up with. 

[Macksam]

7 hours ago, Reign said:

Caps ownership doesn’t want to spend to compete in the MLS. The Canucks have no issue spending to the cap. They aren’t similar.

They’re being a little frugal right now but that could change.

7 hours ago, Reign said:

I really don’t understand what that has to do with anything ? All of the Canadian teams are spending to the cap other then Ottawa. The reason we haven’t seen the Canadian teams win has nothing to do with spending. Most of our teams have just had bad management. Also most UFAs are going to sign in big cities in the USA. The Canadian cities generally can’t pull high tier ufas which is a significant disadvantage.

Maybe this was the case in the 90s but not so lately.

7 hours ago, Reign said:

Canada doesn’t have more teams because there isn’t investment groups interested in paying the expansion fee. The NHL would not restrict more Canadian teams if their was investor groups willing to actually launch a team. The last group was the Quebec City team who would have a team right now if they put the money up. They didn’t. Vegas did. 

That’s not true at all. There has never been any indication that Quebec City was left out because the owners didn’t want to put up the full franchise fee. I think Bettman and company would have easily pointed to that being the excuse instead of the tried and tested, small market, close to Montreal excuse that’s been given. 

[SpursFlu]

I didnt mean to derail the discussion with NHL talk... I was just trying to draw a connection to a league with similar structure to MLS but a sport if any Canadian teams should succeed but they don't

MLS growth, relationship between MLS and LigaMX means tough times for Whitecaps and other Canadian MLS teams

I put a lot of time and effort in to supporting the Whitecaps and I would feel a lot better about it if the team played in the Canadian Premier League

Edited July 23, 2019 by SpursFlu

[gator]

10 hours ago, Reign said:

Canada doesn’t have more teams because there isn’t investment groups interested in paying the expansion fee. The NHL would not restrict more Canadian teams if their was investor groups willing to actually launch a team. The last group was the Quebec City team who would have a team right now if they put the money up. They didn’t. Vegas did. 

If that's the case why have we been screwed by this league so many times in Hamilton? The NHL  and the city of Glendale spent somewhere around a billion dollars keeping a bankrupt Arizona team from moving to Hamilton where it was well financed and basically sold out, Mr. Bettman admitted in bankruptcy court that a team in Hamilton would be in the top ten of financially stability! That was enough for me and this gimmick league called the NHL!