Match Thread - May 2nd - Canada vs USA - U17

[Corazon]

16 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Even when Canada were up by 2 goals the US were dominating play with 80% posession. I hope not starting our 3 best players does not come back to bite us like it usually does. The team was really lacking a skilled midfielder like Colyn or Kamron to  feed Rowe, Omeonga  and later Nelson.  USA players looked huge  and were able to use their size to their advantage in close battles for the ball. We just could not maintain possession, gave away the ball cheaply and relied on the counter 

I was a little surprised by some of the omissions in the lineup.  Was there any reasoning why some expected starters didn't start or play?

[Jith12]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

I was a little surprised by some of the omissions in the lineup.  Was there any reasoning why some expected starters didn't start or play?

Colyn picked up a shoulder injury at the GA Cup, so they may be trying to manage his minutes. Not sure about the others though.

[IceCreamMan]

Anyone find highlights?

[Norrin Radd]

25 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

Anyone find highlights?

https://www.concacaf.com/en/under-17s-men/video/cu17-usa-v-canada-highlights

[Ansem]

MLS academies heavy rosters = dead giveaway on the outcome 

[shamrock]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

MLS academies heavy rosters = dead giveaway on the outcome 

You mean like the complete USA selection?

I'm getting tired hearing this argument. Who are those other U17 hidden gems that were mysteriously left out?

[SoccMan]

5 hours ago, Ansem said:

MLS academies heavy rosters = dead giveaway on the outcome 

But a lot of these same players just played with their MLS academies  teams against some very good pro academies teams in the Generation Adidas Cup and Dallas Cup and these Canadian MLS academies teams did very well against some top notch pro academies teams from around the world. Therefore, in reality should not have a problem competing against most of these CONCACAF countries. Maybe it’s the CSA going with a failed coach from the U20 team that failed miserably last fall in 2018 and having him coach this U17 team that’s the problem. 

[SpursFlu]

Looking at the draw it seems to me that finishing first or second really you get the same path to the final 4 in terms of competition strength. Further proven that the crossover group top 2 teams played to a draw. Panama and Coata Rica. I think they were resting some players or using the game to answer a few questions

[Ansem]

7 hours ago, shamrock said:

You mean like the complete USA selection?

I'm getting tired hearing this argument. Who are those other U17 hidden gems that were mysteriously left out?

You're misunderstanding me.

I question the selection process by CSA than the kids specifically.

Rollins also tweeted about that 

it isn't about players from these academies not being good, but how sure are you that you have selected the best if your selection process isn't efficient and more extensive?

[masster]

Regardless of the players called, the performance was dreadful...even when we were up 2-0. Over running the ball, dribbling when a pass was on, not moving into space to accept a pass, basic things that were just so frustrating to watch.

[Ansem]

Hence the importance of reviewing our selection process.

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

it isn't about players from these academies not being good, but how sure are you that you have selected the best if your selection process isn't efficient and more extensive?

If Mr "no stone unturned" Herdman is working with the MLS academies he should be able to get detailed analysis of all the kids.  He would be able to watch tape and we know he visited the academies himself.  Its not like he has 30 scattered academies to scout.  I'm sure he had long meetings with all the academy heads and was well informed on who were the top kids at each club. 

Missing out on "off the grid" players or unscouted duals at least has some ring of truth to it.  If he cant decide the right MLS academy kids to bring then we really do have problems.  And once again, who are the kids left off the roster that are better??  Nobody has any answers but they are quick to complain about the selection process.  

[Kadenge]

Its difficult to judge the quality of the players or selection based on yesterday's result when 3 of our best players were on the bench. For whatever reason, we decided not to start our "A" team.  There is absolutely no question that those 3  would have made a difference. All 3 are good on the ball and are capable of changing the outcome. Jayden Nelsen, who came into the game late for Russ Rowe, hit the crossbar in extra time and made a great pass to a wide open player who headed wide. If one of those attempts at goal went in we have a tie. Yes we could not maintain possession, as the US were pressing hard....how would that tactic have worked if Colyn, Kamron and Jayden were making the US pay for pressing aggressively?. As far as I could tell the US had most of their A team on the field and we did not. As others have stated the 3 MLS youth teams have performed well this year. Lets wait for the next game or two before fully assessing the players and more importantly, the coach. 

[Corazon]

I think our 3 MLS academies are quite talented right now.  The recent results in the GA & Dallas Cup show that we have some of the best talent in North America in my opinion.  However, I also know that historically and presently that there are very talented and qualified players that are playing outside of Toronto FC in the Greater Toronto Area.  I'm not saying that most of Toronto FC academies don't have the most talented kids because I believe most of them do.  But I do know there are other club players that get overlooked.  And then there is an entire Canadian market missed outside of these 3 MLS cities.  Hopefully CPL academies can development and provide a better platform for talent that goes hidden outside the MLS markets.  I would still expect MLS dominated rosters but there are definitely players across the country not getting a sniff.  (Look at some of the youth talent that has come out of Winnipeg for example).

As for bringing youth players in from Europe etc., I think its hard to recruit 15 and 16 years old players in April & May to come over for camp and qualifiers.  USA brought a US based squad.  Although with a lot more selection of academies to choose from.

3-2 loss to USA on paper doesn't look too bad but they way they gave up a 3 goal lead in the 2nd half and just the way they were outplayed in general is disappointing.  Especially considering how well many of these players played for their clubs in USA just a few weeks ago.  Either kudos to the MLS academy coaching staffs or perhaps blame on National team training.  I understand that you can't make a team gel in a couple weeks and its hard to compare national team performances to clubs performances because they all train together regularly.  But USA looked cohesive, so perhaps preparation for Canada wasn't good enough.

Either way, if we plan on reaching the semi finals we were likely going to play either Panama or Costa Rica who tied each other already in this tournament.  If we slip up before reaching the quarter finals then we will only have ourselves to blame.

I believe this team has the talent.

[youllneverwalkalone]

It will be interesting how long we need to wait for CPL 2.0 where we have 10-16 additional academies producing players. In MLS, it seemed to take at least 10 years, if not 15. FCE are obviously not waiting and Cavalry seem to be doing something with Foothills. Hopefully other clubs can get on this a little sooner and politics with youth clubs aren't too much of an issue.

[Ansem]

48 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

It will be interesting how long we need to wait for CPL 2.0 where we have 10-16 additional academies producing players. In MLS, it seemed to take at least 10 years, if not 15. FCE are obviously not waiting and Cavalry seem to be doing something with Foothills. Hopefully other clubs can get on this a little sooner and politics with youth clubs aren't too much of an issue.

My bet is that CPL 2.0 happens right after 2026 World Cup. On a podcast, Bunbury was talking 5 to 6 years 

[xabuep2]

4 hours ago, masster said:

Regardless of the players called, the performance was dreadful...even when we were up 2-0. Over running the ball, dribbling when a pass was on, not moving into space to accept a pass, basic things that were just so frustrating to watch.

As usual the lack of cohesion and chemistry between the players was noted in the lack of possession and loss of passes. 

Look at the example of Haiti, its players have been playing together for weeks and even recently had several friendly games for Europe. They have already defeated favorites like Honduras and El Salvador. That's called not improvising.

[Big_M]

Bunbury..still waiting for his cpl team announcement in april

[dyslexic nam]

I admit that I didn't watch the game, but it seems crazy that we would leave top players on the bench when we had the chance to win the game.  If the US was dominating possession yet we were 2-0 up on a bit of luck, why not pop in a couple of the best players to try and ensure the win.  Or when they came back and it was 2-1 or even at 2-2, why not make the subs in an effort to get the result.  If the idea was to basically accept a loss in this game in the hopes of preserving our A team for the next couple of games, it seems like that strategy could have been adjusted when we got 2 quick goals. 

Like I said, I didn't see it, so this is all just speculation based on what I read in this thread.  But it seems like a missed opportunity.

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I admit that I didn't watch the game, but it seems crazy that we would leave top players on the bench when we had the chance to win the game.  If the US was dominating possession yet we were 2-0 up on a bit of luck, why not pop in a couple of the best players to try and ensure the win.  Or when they came back and it was 2-1 or even at 2-2, why not make the subs in an effort to get the result.  If the idea was to basically accept a loss in this game in the hopes of preserving our A team for the next couple of games, it seems like that strategy could have been adjusted when we got 2 quick goals. 

Like I said, I didn't see it, so this is all just speculation based on what I read in this thread.  But it seems like a missed opportunity.

But this is a tournament with a lot of games in a short period of time and you know how long it takes a 17 year-old to bounce back after a game.  We need to rest them for the final against Mexico.

Side note: is there a sarcasm font anywhere?

[Admin]

20 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

......... you know how long it takes a 17 year-old to bounce back after a game.....

 

14 minutes. 

[red card]

2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I admit that I didn't watch the game, but it seems crazy that we would leave top players on the bench when we had the chance to win the game.  If the US was dominating possession yet we were 2-0 up on a bit of luck, why not pop in a couple of the best players to try and ensure the win.  Or when they came back and it was 2-1 or even at 2-2, why not make the subs in an effort to get the result.  If the idea was to basically accept a loss in this game in the hopes of preserving our A team for the next couple of games, it seems like that strategy could have been adjusted when we got 2 quick goals. 

Like I said, I didn't see it, so this is all just speculation based on what I read in this thread.  But it seems like a missed opportunity.

I watched the match. The tactic was to lay back and try for counters. It worked in the first half.

In the second half, the US scored on 3 set pieces basically due to lax defending. The third goal came from the most shambolic wall I have ever seen. One goal was due to a bit of luck ping ponging through 2 players.

Once the third goal went in, they switched tactics and played to tie. One of the three noted best players was put in and he hit the crossbar and had a beauty of a cross that was headed wide. 

So, having Neslon in the starting line-up instead of Rowe would have helped. But Rowe did have a good match and scored a wonder goal. 

Otherwise, nothing would have changed in terms of the result. The defending was too lackadaisical to avoid the 3 goals (the US defending was also soft).Based on the two matches, the back line is the weakest area and Colyn didn't play that well against the Guats (got subbed out). 

[El Hombre]

2 hours ago, red card said:

So, having Neslon in the starting line-up instead of Rowe would have helped. But Rowe did have a good match and scored a wonder goal.

They play two different positions.  Could easily have had both Nelson and Rowe on, like they are doing with today's game against Barbados.

In fact, today's is the strongest lineup they've put out in my opinion.  Really want to hammer the minnow, I guess.

[red card]

Strongest lineup - yes. But they don't look as good.

Anyway of the 3 players as ones to watch, Nelson & Habibullah have lived up to their billings. Colyn hasn't shown much - had a lot of ball against Guatemala but didn't do much beyond short passes. 

Russell-Rowe (who is listed as F with Nelson), Omeonga Nkoy, Ferdinand (at times) & Catavolo have also caught my eye.