Canada vs French Guiana Sunday March 24th 2019 in Vancouver

[Admin]

2 hours ago, JuicyHam said:

Hello everyone. I'll be going to the game but just wondered if I should buy in the Voyageurs section or just a regular seat. I'm new to being a supporter as I've only recently fell in love with the game. I went to the last game in Toronto and it went really well but it had me curious about the Canadian supporters section. You guys were loud and proud. I'm just wondering if it is too early to merge into a hardcore supporter section or just coexist with the average fan? Also is there anywhere I can learn the songs and chants or is that just something you pick up at and before the game? Thanks in advance. 

Join us for sure.

There is no one way to do things. Lots of space, come out and have fun

[BradMack]

French Guiana is the best team we will face in this competition and I think we should use this as a chance to solidify an actual formation. Up until now the competition has been weak enough where we just overloaded our team with all of our offensive prospects... Millar and Davies as wingbacks with multiple strikers and attacking mids, just trying to fit everyone in. We won't be able to do that against tougher competition. We eventually have to relegate some of our prospects to the bench in favour of a more balanced team. 

Here are two different lineup options I'd like to see. Both are a 4-2-3-1. I was watching David play for Gent today and they use a system I think really fits our players, the difference being our players are of better quality so in theory should work even better for us. They play a solid back line, with 2 sitting in front of the back line, a single striker up top, and 3 attacking mids that all swap positions fluidly, with their left attacking mid mostly keeping his position as he is very good 1 on 1. David plays mostly in the center but is very capable of switching to either side to give different looks. When the ball is in advanced positions he drives the net as a second striker, playing off the nine. The 2 midfielders are a balance, when one drives the other stays deep.

This is perfect for a combination of Hoilett, David, Davies and Cav. Cav has the hold up skills to get everyone involved. Hoilett and david are very comfortable switching sides and we want Davies isolating defenders wide 1 on 1. As mentioned, the 2 midfielders are a balance, when one drives the other stays deep, perfect for Arfield as he can make late runs and both he and Hutch can spray passes to any of the 3 infront of them. They also have enough tactical knowledge and workrate to be able to protect a somewhat suspect back four. 

In my second lineup I have davies as a wingback overloading the left side, a more offensive look. Tabla is capable of playing any of the attacking mid positions.

The bench and backfour are really anyones guess. I'd say Kaye, Millar, Piette, Larin, Osorio are all locks for the bench and offer something different. We have real depth. 

[SthMelbRed]

Two things...

1. Since when did we become Arsenal? ;-)

2. The first formation is essentially how Liverpool have played in most matches this season, with Salah as the central striker, Firmino as the 10, and Mane and Shaqiri coming from wide.

[Alex]

11 hours ago, BradMack said:

French Guiana is the best team we will face in this competition and I think we should use this as a chance to solidify an actual formation. Up until now the competition has been weak enough where we just overloaded our team with all of our offensive prospects... Millar and Davies as wingbacks with multiple strikers and attacking mids, just trying to fit everyone in. We won't be able to do that against tougher competition. We eventually have to relegate some of our prospects to the bench in favour of a more balanced team. 

Here are two different lineup options I'd like to see. Both are a 4-2-3-1. I was watching David play for Gent today and they use a system I think really fits our players, the difference being our players are of better quality so in theory should work even better for us. They play a solid back line, with 2 sitting in front of the back line, a single striker up top, and 3 attacking mids that all swap positions fluidly, with their left attacking mid mostly keeping his position as he is very good 1 on 1. David plays mostly in the center but is very capable of switching to either side to give different looks. When the ball is in advanced positions he drives the net as a second striker, playing off the nine. The 2 midfielders are a balance, when one drives the other stays deep.

This is perfect for a combination of Hoilett, David, Davies and Cav. Cav has the hold up skills to get everyone involved. Hoilett and david are very comfortable switching sides and we want Davies isolating defenders wide 1 on 1. As mentioned, the 2 midfielders are a balance, when one drives the other stays deep, perfect for Arfield as he can make late runs and both he and Hutch can spray passes to any of the 3 infront of them. They also have enough tactical knowledge and workrate to be able to protect a somewhat suspect back four. 

In my second lineup I have davies as a wingback overloading the left side, a more offensive look. Tabla is capable of playing any of the attacking mid positions.

The bench and backfour are really anyones guess. I'd say Kaye, Millar, Piette, Larin, Osorio are all locks for the bench and offer something different. We have real depth. 

Imagine with this formation we get a game vs the US in nations league THIS YEAR?!? Buckle up! 

[Vince193]

Davies at FB hurts my heart.

[apbsmith]

I would love to see a lineup like this vs French Guiana at home.

Note I don't think any of those defensive players aside from James are set in stone.

[Corazon]

3 hours ago, apbsmith said:

I would love to see a lineup like this vs French Guiana at home.

Note I don't think any of those defensive players aside from James are set in stone.

I couldn't agree more with the lineup and I also agree with the statement on defense as well.

[BradMack]

On 1/28/2019 at 10:39 AM, Vince193 said:

Davies at FB hurts my heart.

I see that as more of an option if we need goals late on, or in games we know we will dominate. As you'll notice I have him higher up than most of the backline as more of a wingback. In theory it would allow Hoilett to come inside, preoccupying a defender, allow davies space to run into on the outside. Arfield picking the pass. I do not think its the way to go if we will be counter attacking against a much better team as we will want him higher up threatening with his pace to keep teams honest. 

[BradMack]

On 1/28/2019 at 3:12 PM, apbsmith said:

I would love to see a lineup like this vs French Guiana at home.

Note I don't think any of those defensive players aside from James are set in stone.

The only issue I have here, is as I said in my original post, this isn't a formation we can stick with. Sure it would be fun to pound French Guiana at home, but how does this work against a better team. There are essentially 2 defenders in this lineup as Godhino is more attack minded and often struggles defending in the SPL. We've seen teams... actually we've seen French Guiana hurt us before while we were playing a much more conservative lineup. 

Imagine lining up like this against the US or Mexico. Hoilett Is not tracking back and defending well against Pulisic or Lozano. We'd be destroyed. It's great that we have all this talent in the team offensively, but realistically we cant play them all. How often do underdog teams play with 2 wingers, 2 strikers, and 2 attacking midfielders... unless they're chasing a late goal its an insane way to lineup against anyone remotely dangerous. 

Also I don't really want to get into this, but the way things have been going, this could realistically be our last tune up before the Gold Cup, unless the Ventura County Fusion want to step up? .  I think we should take the chance to get some reps in our actual system against a decent team at home.

[apbsmith]

On 1/29/2019 at 8:12 PM, BradMack said:

The only issue I have here, is as I said in my original post, this isn't a formation we can stick with. Sure it would be fun to pound French Guiana at home, but how does this work against a better team. There are essentially 2 defenders in this lineup as Godhino is more attack minded and often struggles defending in the SPL. We've seen teams... actually we've seen French Guiana hurt us before while we were playing a much more conservative lineup. 

Imagine lining up like this against the US or Mexico. Hoilett Is not tracking back and defending well against Pulisic or Lozano. We'd be destroyed. It's great that we have all this talent in the team offensively, but realistically we cant play them all. How often do underdog teams play with 2 wingers, 2 strikers, and 2 attacking midfielders... unless they're chasing a late goal its an insane way to lineup against anyone remotely dangerous. 

Also I don't really want to get into this, but the way things have been going, this could realistically be our last tune up before the Gold Cup, unless the Ventura County Fusion want to step up? .  I think we should take the chance to get some reps in our actual system against a decent team at home.

Please show me when I said use my lineup suggestions and formation vs Mexico or the US?

I personally think formations are based and should be adjusted according to the opponents. That's how I have always viewed optimal high performance and producing results. Guess we just see things differently.

However, I completely understand your  "last tune up" and understand you wanting to create some fluidity. However, I would be disappointed if we rolled out the exact same lineup and formation vs FG at home vs Mexico on the road.

 Additional points regarding your critique of my lineup :

I included Godhino, and put NOT set in stone for defenders because I would like us to see playing attack minded football vs a weaker opponent at home (FG). However, then you say he struggles defensively but in both your lineups to "create a system" he is in both of yours? I would not put Godhino or DeJong or Davies as a LB vs Mexico or USA (but that is an entire different discussion).

As for Hoilett tracking back/defending. IMO after watching a handful of BPL games where he has started this season, he has greatly improved his tracking back and defending (Cardiff play very defensive minded football as they are constantly vs stronger opposition).

Not to derail the thread, we can talk about CMNT lineups vs Mexico/US, when the time comes and the thread is created. 

Regardless it will be interesting to see what the boss goes with. I am still not convinced Herdman is going to use a 4 back defender system, we will see I guess.

Cheers

 

 

[BradMack]

16 hours ago, apbsmith said:

Please show me when I said use my lineup suggestions and formation vs Mexico or the US?

I personally think formations are based and should be adjusted according to the opponents. That's how I have always viewed optimal high performance and producing results. Guess we just see things differently.

However, I completely understand your  "last tune up" and understand you wanting to create some fluidity. However, I would be disappointed if we rolled out the exact same lineup and formation vs FG at home vs Mexico on the road.

 Additional points regarding your critique of my lineup :

I included Godhino, and put NOT set in stone for defenders because I would like us to see playing attack minded football vs a weaker opponent at home (FG). However, then you say he struggles defensively but in both your lineups to "create a system" he is in both of yours? I would not put Godhino or DeJong or Davies as a LB vs Mexico or USA (but that is an entire different discussion).

As for Hoilett tracking back/defending. IMO after watching a handful of BPL games where he has started this season, he has greatly improved his tracking back and defending (Cardiff play very defensive minded football as they are constantly vs stronger opposition).

Not to derail the thread, we can talk about CMNT lineups vs Mexico/US, when the time comes and the thread is created. 

Regardless it will be interesting to see what the boss goes with. I am still not convinced Herdman is going to use a 4 back defender system, we will see I guess.

Cheers

 

 

I was not meaning to call you out or personally attack your ideas in any way, I do hope that was clear. Just trying to create some discussion.

Just to clear things up, I do agree with you that we need some flexibility on formations based on the opponent. That is sort of my whole point. The whole time Herdman's been here we've only used these super attack minded formations. In order to be able to adjust to the opponent, we need to practice the alternative, I think this is the game to try it. That is where we will most likely agree to disagree.  We have 3-4 of these easy games left until after the World Cup. This game, likely a minnow in the group stage of GC and a home game in our first round of WCQ... maybe a second home game against a minnow in WCQ depending on the draw.

I'm suggesting it may be a good idea to play a single competitive game with a more realistic lineup before the matches get considerably more difficult this summer. Also, we shouldn't need to have 6 players in attacking roles on the field to put goals in against FG, if we do than we are screwed against anyone better. We should also consider that they put two goals past us in the opening game of GC2017, they're not that weak in attack. 

Regarding Godinho, I didn't mean to attack your backline, as you say nothing back there is set in stone, I very much agree with you there... My reasoning behind what I said was that I just noticed you had Godinho and ZBG as the right side CB in a back 3, two mostly offensive players, meaning there were two defenders in your backline, and no wingbacks, they're positioned as wingers. This works fine against minnows, as you said, but we'd get murdered against teir 2 Concacaf opponents, and teir 3 would likely put one or two past us.

I am interested in hearing who you would put at leftback against a good opponent though, like you, I really don't know if I trust de Jong to be able to keep up. Honestly Davies is probably our best defensive option there although that really hurts me to say.  

[Kadenge]

3 hours ago, BradMack said:

I was not meaning to call you out or personally attack your ideas in any way, I do hope that was clear. Just trying to create some discussion.

Just to clear things up, I do agree with you that we need some flexibility on formations based on the opponent. That is sort of my whole point. The whole time Herdman's been here we've only used these super attack minded formations. In order to be able to adjust to the opponent, we need to practice the alternative, I think this is the game to try it. That is where we will most likely agree to disagree.  We have 3-4 of these easy games left until after the World Cup. This game, likely a minnow in the group stage of GC and a home game in our first round of WCQ... maybe a second home game against a minnow in WCQ depending on the draw.

I'm suggesting it may be a good idea to play a single competitive game with a more realistic lineup before the matches get considerably more difficult this summer. Also, we shouldn't need to have 6 players in attacking roles on the field to put goals in against FG, if we do than we are screwed against anyone better. We should also consider that they put two goals past us in the opening game of GC2017, they're not that weak in attack. 

Regarding Godinho, I didn't mean to attack your backline, as you say nothing back there is set in stone, I very much agree with you there... My reasoning behind what I said was that I just noticed you had Godinho and ZBG as the right side CB in a back 3, two mostly offensive players, meaning there were two defenders in your backline, and no wingbacks, they're positioned as wingers. This works fine against minnows, as you said, but we'd get murdered against teir 2 Concacaf opponents, and teir 3 would likely put one or two past us.

I am interested in hearing who you would put at leftback against a good opponent though, like you, I really don't know if I trust de Jong to be able to keep up. Honestly Davies is probably our best defensive option there although that really hurts me to say.  

Adekugbe at left back would be my choice. He was playing 90 mins every game last year

[apbsmith]

9 hours ago, BradMack said:

I was not meaning to call you out or personally attack your ideas in any way, I do hope that was clear. Just trying to create some discussion.

Just to clear things up, I do agree with you that we need some flexibility on formations based on the opponent. That is sort of my whole point. The whole time Herdman's been here we've only used these super attack minded formations. In order to be able to adjust to the opponent, we need to practice the alternative, I think this is the game to try it. That is where we will most likely agree to disagree.  We have 3-4 of these easy games left until after the World Cup. This game, likely a minnow in the group stage of GC and a home game in our first round of WCQ... maybe a second home game against a minnow in WCQ depending on the draw.

I'm suggesting it may be a good idea to play a single competitive game with a more realistic lineup before the matches get considerably more difficult this summer. Also, we shouldn't need to have 6 players in attacking roles on the field to put goals in against FG, if we do than we are screwed against anyone better. We should also consider that they put two goals past us in the opening game of GC2017, they're not that weak in attack. 

Regarding Godinho, I didn't mean to attack your backline, as you say nothing back there is set in stone, I very much agree with you there... My reasoning behind what I said was that I just noticed you had Godinho and ZBG as the right side CB in a back 3, two mostly offensive players, meaning there were two defenders in your backline, and no wingbacks, they're positioned as wingers. This works fine against minnows, as you said, but we'd get murdered against teir 2 Concacaf opponents, and teir 3 would likely put one or two past us.

I am interested in hearing who you would put at leftback against a good opponent though, like you, I really don't know if I trust de Jong to be able to keep up. Honestly Davies is probably our best defensive option there although that really hurts me to say.  

Cheers, no no, I know it wasn't a personal attack at all :). I love discussions, I'm sure or hope you know I wasn't attacking you either. 

You made a great point that we shouldn't need all that talent on the field to score goals vs FG. At the same time, I'm a fan of setting the tone of the match with the identity of that lineup.

I don't think FG are weak and I am not taking anything away from there goals against us. However, you need to remember there goals came  mins apart from each other, once the game turned a bit chaotic from the torentual down pour that started. More importantly, no Borjan in net on those goals ;). Borjan wears the armband for a reason, great leader and organizational communicator back there. 

As for LB, I honestly don't know, and that is one of the reasons I keep coming back to "3 CBs at the back" :/.... imo our CBs our stronger. Perhaps I'm over thinking it and over analyzing it by trying to field the best team possible haha.  Going back to your Davies suggestion, I could see it, especially in some type of 3-5-2. The outside wingers, with Davies one side, with Ghodino/ZBG on the other side, with the back 3 of Henry-James-Cornelius.

Hopefully in the next 12-18 months we can find our true #1 RB and #1 LB which would give us quality options for a 3 at the back or 4 at the back formation. In our region, I do think both formations can be effective depending on the opponent. 

[StillOnFire]

Canada have some great young potential, especially when coming forward. While there should be enough coming forward, I can't help but think you're still weak at the back, especially in the centre back positions. It should be enough to defeat French Guiana, but against the bigger sides it will show. James hasn't played enough at a good level, Cornelius is young and has potential, but unfulfilled yet. Henry is. Just too injury prone and Edgar has been falling quite a bit in recent seasons. At the very least the full back positions seem solid enough.

[BuzzAndSting]

4 hours ago, StillOnFire said:

Canada have some great young potential, especially when coming forward. While there should be enough coming forward, I can't help but think you're still weak at the back, especially in the centre back positions. It should be enough to defeat French Guiana, but against the bigger sides it will show. James hasn't played enough at a good level, Cornelius is young and has potential, but unfulfilled yet. Henry is. Just too injury prone and Edgar has been falling quite a bit in recent seasons. At the very least the full back positions seem solid enough.

Your assessment although I’m sure honest seems like it is from someone who has not watched a lot of our backline play. 

[Vince193]

I mean I feel this is probably the most likely line-up we'll see

 

 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

It’s crazy to think that Canada has an 19 year old lighting up Belgium and he isn’t a locked in starter for Canada. Is this what it feels like to cheer for a decent national team?

[Obinna]

We are still quite far away from this match, but:

GK - Borjan

GK - Crepeau

FB - de Jong

FB - Adekugbe

FB - ZBG

FB - Godinho

CB - Cornelius 

CB - James

CB - Henry

CB - Jakovic

M - Arfield

M - Hutchinson

M - Osorio

M - Piette

M - Hoilett

M - Davies

M - Millar

F - Cavallini

F - Larin

F - David

F - Tabla

 

Gold Cup will be here quicker than you can say "Canada doesn't suck anymore". Now is the time to call up the best team we can. This may be our last game before the tournament ?

This is a fool's errand so far away from the match, but here's my Starting 11:

-----------------------Borjan--------------------

Godinho---Henry---Cornelius---Adekugbe

--------------------Hutchinson------------------

--------------Arfield---------Osorio---------------

Davies--------------David-------------Hoilett

-----------------------Cavallini---------------------

 

[ghostknownunknown]

7 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We are still quite far away from this match, but:

GK - Borjan

GK - Crepeau

FB - de Jong

FB - Adekugbe

FB - ZBG

FB - Godinho

CB - Cornelius 

CB - James

CB - Henry

CB - Jakovic

M - Arfield

M - Hutchinson

M - Osorio

M - Piette

M - Hoilett

M - Davies

M - Millar

F - Cavallini

F - Larin

F - David

F - Tabla

 

Gold Cup will be here quicker than you can say "Canada doesn't suck anymore". Now is the time to call up the best team we can. This may be our last game before the tournament ?

This is a fool's errand so far away from the match, but here's my Starting 11:

-----------------------Borjan--------------------

Godinho---Henry---Cornelius---Adekugbe

--------------------Hutchinson------------------

--------------Arfield---------Osorio---------------

Davies--------------David-------------Hoilett

-----------------------Cavallini---------------------

 

Ah, the 4-3-3-1! A classic. 

[Vince193]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We are still quite far away from this match, but:

GK - Borjan

GK - Crepeau

FB - de Jong

FB - Adekugbe

FB - ZBG

FB - Godinho

CB - Cornelius 

CB - James

CB - Henry

CB - Jakovic

M - Arfield

M - Hutchinson

M - Osorio

M - Piette

M - Hoilett

M - Davies

M - Millar

F - Cavallini

F - Larin

F - David

F - Tabla

 

Gold Cup will be here quicker than you can say "Canada doesn't suck anymore". Now is the time to call up the best team we can. This may be our last game before the tournament ?

This is a fool's errand so far away from the match, but here's my Starting 11:

-----------------------Borjan--------------------

Godinho---Henry---Cornelius---Adekugbe

--------------------Hutchinson------------------

--------------Arfield---------Osorio---------------

Davies--------------David-------------Hoilett

-----------------------Cavallini---------------------

 

12 players on the pitch. Bold move cotton.

[apbsmith]

Trying to stay on topic thread but man..... the value of games (thank goodness we even have Nation League!)

Not trying to specifically compare us to the USA , but they just played two friendlies after a majority North American based player camp.

1)Integrated a bunch of players in the pool.

2) Integrated two different formations.

3) Got two games to experiment with formations, players, in game chemistry, etc.

Game 1 vs weaker opponent Panama

- Played a 3-1-4-2 , they dominated game and possession, got the expected result.

Game 2 vs stronger opponent Costa Rica

- Played a 4-3-3 , game was much tighter as expected, but stood strong defensively and won the game late.

Obviously we are not the USA and friendlies will always have a different feel, player rotation, 6 subs etc. However, it is unfortunate both for Herdman and the players, we can't get a few more games in.  Say he wants to "try something" or "thinks this could work", a manager should know fairly quickly in the match if it is working or not working. I'd much rather have him discover that in a friendly compared to a meaningful match.  

After doing some thought, I am leaning now towards wanting to see a back 4 defensive line. I do however, think the only secure spot would be James, provided he stays in form and is healthy.

 

 

[Vince193]

32 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

Trying to stay on topic thread but man..... the value of games (thank goodness we even have Nation League!)

Not trying to specifically compare us to the USA , but they just played two friendlies after a majority North American based player camp.

1)Integrated a bunch of players in the pool.

2) Integrated two different formations.

3) Got two games to experiment with formations, players, in game chemistry, etc.

Game 1 vs weaker opponent Panama

- Played a 3-1-4-2 , they dominated game and possession, got the expected result.

Game 2 vs stronger opponent Costa Rica

- Played a 4-3-3 , game was much tighter as expected, but stood strong defensively and won the game late.

Obviously we are not the USA and friendlies will always have a different feel, player rotation, 6 subs etc. However, it is unfortunate both for Herdman and the players, we can't get a few more games in.  Say he wants to "try something" or "thinks this could work", a manager should know fairly quickly in the match if it is working or not working. I'd much rather have him discover that in a friendly compared to a meaningful match.  

After doing some thought, I am leaning now towards wanting to see a back 4 defensive line. I do however, think the only secure spot would be James, provided he stays in form and is healthy.

 

 

Unfortunately the CSA is unwilling, or unable to have the men play more games, even though playing games is how you develop the national team, not going on media calls and patting yourselves on the back. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Vince193 said:

12 players on the pitch. Bold move cotton.

 

1 hour ago, ghostknownunknown said:

Ah, the 4-3-3-1! A classic. 

I keep on doing this. I honestly don't mean to. I guess it really is that hard to leave some of our talent out of the starting lineup lol

Since I apparently can't have 12 players on the field, I would reluctantly drop Osorio.

[SkuseisLoose]

I don't think James should be overlooked as a starter. I'd easily say he's our best centre back and if Vitoria is getting minutes he's definitely our number 2 otherwise I agree with you @Obinna

[Zem]

6 minutes ago, SkuseisLoose said:

I'd easily say he's our best centre back and if Vitoria is getting minutes he's definitely our number 2 otherwise I agree with you @Obinna

I'm not sure why people have been rating James so highly all of a sudden, he's been average at best for the NT over the last couple years. Is is just because he signed with Midtjylland?

Regardless I disagree, he's a solid player but he has room to improve and/or shake off rust as a CB. It's great for us that he's finally playing consistently at CB again, but based on NT play Vitoria and Henry are easily ahead of him, and he's been no better than Cornelius either. Despite that, I do hope he can evolve into a starter for us if he starts getting decent minutes at CB with Midtjylland.