2019 Voyageurs Cup

[MM3/MM2/MM]

Got tickets to the Blainville home game, going with my son from Ottawa for the game.

[Blackdude]

Looks like Blainville only has 2000 capacity. 

[narduch]

On 4/24/2019 at 12:10 PM, Blue and White Army said:

Which section are you in? Are Voyageurs planning a "neutral" section?

For Vaughan Azzurri vs. HFX Wanderers on May 15, any idea what's happening regarding tickets? I see nothing on Vaughan's website or social media account about tickets - other than them giving away tickets to the York 9 Voyageurs Cup match. 😂

The team's website says they are selling tickets for $12.50 at their clubhouse on Keele St.

I'm sure you could get tickets at the door.

https://club.vaughansoccer.com/index.php/vsc-programs-menu/rep-competitive-program-menu/teams/item/1974-l1-azzurri-in-qualifying-round-at-the-2019-canadian-championship-get-your-tickets-today

[ironcub14]

Matchday, should be fun! Sold my TFC ticket for today, will be at the Vaughan game.

[narduch]

Just wanted to comment on the format. 

At first I thought it was kinda dumb. But I don't hate it as much now for 2 reasons.

-it stretches out the tournament. 

-essentially teams earn their shot at the MLS sides. This way CPL will be sending off its better teams.  

I also think TFC may have lobbied to start in the semis due to fixture congestion. Which means the ideal format most people wanted of 10 teams starting in round 1 couldn't happen unless TFC joined in the quarters. 

[BuzzAndSting]

https://www.concacafleague.com/en/article/2019-scotiabank-concacaf-league-draw-to-take-place-on-may-30

Pot 1: Santa Tecla FC (SLV), Panama 3 (TBC), CD Marathon (HON), AS Capoise (HAI), Guatemala 2 (TBC) and Deportivo Saprissa (CRC).

Pot 2: Belmopan Bandits (BLZ), El Salvador 3 (TBC), Real Esteli FC (NCA), SV Robinhood (SUR), Comunicaciones FC (GUA) and Canada 2 (TBC).

Pot 3: Panama 1 (TBC), CS Herediano (CRC), Panama 2 (TBC), Honduras 1 (TBC), AD San Carlos (CRC), Honduras 2 (TBC), El Salvador 1 (TBC) and CD Guastatoya (GUA).

Pot 4: Waterhouse FC (JAM), Managua FC (NCA), Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #1, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #2, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #3, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #4, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #5 and Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #6

Fans will be able to follow all the action through the Confederation’s partner networks, including Univision Deportes (United States), Yahoo Sports (United States), Fox Sports Latin America (Mexico & Central America), TSN (Canada), Flow Sports (Caribbean) and other local partners. For other territories, the event will be available on Concacaf GO (subject to territory restrictions).

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

At first I thought it was kinda dumb. But I don't hate it as much now for 2 reasons.

-it stretches out the tournament. 

-essentially teams earn their shot at the MLS sides. This way CPL will be sending off its better teams.  

I made essentially the same point in the latest HFX Vaughn match thread.  Seeing how it has been playing out, and seeing the quality of the CPL teams that will make it through the process to rep CPL against the MLS teams has extinguished my knee-jerk sense out injustice.

 

3 hours ago, narduch said:

I also think TFC may have lobbied to start in the semis due to fixture congestion. Which means the ideal format most people wanted of 10 teams starting in round 1 couldn't happen unless TFC joined in the quarters. 

I disagree with the idea of accommodating TFC.  One of the benefits of being a "big club" (in the CPL/MLS context) is that TFC should have the bench capable of getting them through early rounds against lower level opposition.  Almost all big clubs do it in early rounds of domestic competitions.  Despite my point above for this transitional year, I don't see why one team should get a buy (bye?) into the semis or quarters of a major competition.

[narduch]

I agree TFC should start at the same time as the other 2 MLS clubs.

I'm just trying to rationalize it as if I was in the CSA.

For instance what happens if a CPL club actually qualifies for the main Champions League, would they be granted the same courtesy?

[narduch]

1 hour ago, BuzzAndSting said:

https://www.concacafleague.com/en/article/2019-scotiabank-concacaf-league-draw-to-take-place-on-may-30

Pot 1: Santa Tecla FC (SLV), Panama 3 (TBC), CD Marathon (HON), AS Capoise (HAI), Guatemala 2 (TBC) and Deportivo Saprissa (CRC).

Pot 2: Belmopan Bandits (BLZ), El Salvador 3 (TBC), Real Esteli FC (NCA), SV Robinhood (SUR), Comunicaciones FC (GUA) and Canada 2 (TBC).

Pot 3: Panama 1 (TBC), CS Herediano (CRC), Panama 2 (TBC), Honduras 1 (TBC), AD San Carlos (CRC), Honduras 2 (TBC), El Salvador 1 (TBC) and CD Guastatoya (GUA).

Pot 4: Waterhouse FC (JAM), Managua FC (NCA), Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #1, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #2, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #3, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #4, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #5 and Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #6

Fans will be able to follow all the action through the Confederation’s partner networks, including Univision Deportes (United States), Yahoo Sports (United States), Fox Sports Latin America (Mexico & Central America), TSN (Canada), Flow Sports (Caribbean) and other local partners. For other territories, the event will be available on Concacaf GO (subject to territory restrictions).

I was wondering when this draw was going to be. 

I guess we are hoping that the CPL rep draws the Haitian side?

No matter what it won't be easy qualifying for the Champions League

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

I agree TFC should start at the same time as the other 2 MLS clubs.

I'm just trying to rationalize it as if I was in the CSA.

For instance what happens if a CPL club actually qualifies for the main Champions League, would they be granted the same courtesy?

To be clear, I am not just saying they should start at the same time as the other MLC clubs.

I am saying that all teams should start at the same level and work their way through the format.  If TFC faces Vaughn they can either tire out their first team trying to pummel them, or utilize their well-funded squad depth by fielding a team or snd string players that should still be able to get the job done - just like all big clubs faced with the prospect of competing on multiple fronts.

Edited May 23, 2019 by dyslexic nam

[RS]

It's a romantic idea, but dropping every team into the opening round could eventually become unwieldy as the CPL grows. What happens when the CPL is at 22 teams? We have a 27-team first round?

Seeding teams into the later rounds is fine, and setting that precedent now is a good idea, but I agree that no team should be given a bye into the semis. Even the quarters is a bit much, but I don't mind it so much this year.

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

https://www.concacafleague.com/en/article/2019-scotiabank-concacaf-league-draw-to-take-place-on-may-30

Pot 1: Santa Tecla FC (SLV), Panama 3 (TBC), CD Marathon (HON), AS Capoise (HAI), Guatemala 2 (TBC) and Deportivo Saprissa (CRC).

Pot 2: Belmopan Bandits (BLZ), El Salvador 3 (TBC), Real Esteli FC (NCA), SV Robinhood (SUR), Comunicaciones FC (GUA) and Canada 2 (TBC).

Pot 3: Panama 1 (TBC), CS Herediano (CRC), Panama 2 (TBC), Honduras 1 (TBC), AD San Carlos (CRC), Honduras 2 (TBC), El Salvador 1 (TBC) and CD Guastatoya (GUA).

Pot 4: Waterhouse FC (JAM), Managua FC (NCA), Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #1, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #2, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #3, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #4, Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #5 and Winner Preliminary Round Matchup #6

Fans will be able to follow all the action through the Confederation’s partner networks, including Univision Deportes (United States), Yahoo Sports (United States), Fox Sports Latin America (Mexico & Central America), TSN (Canada), Flow Sports (Caribbean) and other local partners. For other territories, the event will be available on Concacaf GO (subject to territory restrictions).

Pot 3 seems like it's stronger than Pot 2.  Pot 2 seems like it's made up of the weaker countries/one new league.  At any rate, it's the draw from Pot 3 that I think make or break's the CPL clubs chances of advancing from the group.

[narduch]

34 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Pot 3 seems like it's stronger than Pot 2.  Pot 2 seems like it's made up of the weaker countries/one new league.  At any rate, it's the draw from Pot 3 that I think make or break's the CPL clubs chances of advancing from the group.

The Pot 3 teams enter the tournament 1 round after the Pot 1 and 2 teams. 

[Watchmen]

Just now, narduch said:

The Pot 3 teams enter the tournament 1 round after the Pot 1 and 2 teams. 

What a tournament format.  Regardless, I think we'll be seeing a lot of pot 3 teams advancing.

[narduch]

54 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

What a tournament format.  Regardless, I think we'll be seeing a lot of pot 3 teams advancing.

The wiki page helps visualize it better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_CONCACAF_League

Edited May 24, 2019 by narduch

[Watchmen]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

The wiki page helps visualize it better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_CONCACAF_League

Yeah, for some reason I was thinking there was a group stage in this tournament and not just 2 leg knockout.

[ted]

3 hours ago, RS said:

It's a romantic idea, but dropping every team into the opening round could eventually become unwieldy as the CPL grows. What happens when the CPL is at 22 teams? We have a 27-team first round?

Yeah, so what? Totally easy to do.

I participate in another sport and we have tournaments where random numbers of entrants happen all the time. The draw is random and if there are is an odd number we throw a "bye" into the draw.

It's not rocket science and the bye can be random or a reward for the past winner. Either way, it is a one and done in the first round. No need for ridiculous, unfair "draws".

 

[RS]

10 hours ago, ted said:

Yeah, so what? Totally easy to do.

I participate in another sport and we have tournaments where random numbers of entrants happen all the time. The draw is random and if there are is an odd number we throw a "bye" into the draw.

It's not rocket science and the bye can be random or a reward for the past winner. Either way, it is a one and done in the first round. No need for ridiculous, unfair "draws".

 

My point wasn't the odd number, it was the size of the first round. Eventually it gets too big if you have all the teams enter at the same time. We're aiming to double or triple the number of CPL clubs, which could lead to problems down the road if all of them are tossed into the first round alongside the existing teams.

There's tons of precedent around the world for seeding in domestic cup competitions. CPL teams are already being squeezed by fixture congestion (although that's the league's own fault), so I have no problem with them earning their way out of a round or two in the future. 

[deschamp86]

I'd like to see the teams seeded. For example, here would be what next year's bracket could look like if no teams were to be added next year and you based it off of league standings (PPG at this point) with the assumption that MLS > USL > CPL > PLSQ/L1O (The USL/CPL is based on nothing as of yet, and I would change it based on the outcome of this year's match up)

And then another bracket based on if two Quebec teams were to join:

[narduch]

I just don't think the MLS teams will go for 8 matches.

Unless you want to make them single elimination games.

[deschamp86]

26 minutes ago, narduch said:

I just don't think the MLS teams will go for 8 matches.

Unless you want to make them single elimination games.

Why do they have to be convinced? Its up to the CSA, isn't it? They need to stop bending over backwards for the MLS teams

[narduch]

20 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Why do they have to be convinced? Its up to the CSA, isn't it? They need to stop bending over backwards for the MLS teams

When have they ever not though.

I'm not holding my breath.

I think entering at the Quarter Finals is the right place for all MLS clubs based on level of play and the number of teams involved. However TFC (or any team) shouldn't get to start in the semi finals.

Plus I do think fixture congestion is a concern that has to be considered.

Edited May 24, 2019 by narduch

[BuzzAndSting]

17 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Why do they have to be convinced? Its up to the CSA, isn't it? They need to stop bending over backwards for the MLS teams

Because the CSA can't force them to care about the tournament and will admit that having strong MLS teams competing in this tournament and the CL is best for Canadian soccer.

If the MLS sides don't like the format they could just put forward teams of teenagers who get run over by the CPL clubs who then in turn get run over by the Liga MX clubs.

Just a theory though!

[deschamp86]

36 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Because the CSA can't force them to care about the tournament and will admit that having strong MLS teams competing in this tournament and the CL is best for Canadian soccer.

If the MLS sides don't like the format they could just put forward teams of teenagers who get run over by the CPL clubs who then in turn get run over by the Liga MX clubs.

Just a theory though!

The MLS teams already tend to play more of their lower end roster guys when they line up against teams like Ottawa. I get that there is fixture congestion, but the fixture congestion in CPL is already way worse. Let's have an example using my bottom bracket, and we'll say that both Cavalry and TFC meet in the final.

Over the course of the season (not including playoffs, CONCACAF League or Champions League) Cavalry will have played 36 games in 25 weeks. TFC will have played 42 games in 31 weeks.

Sure TFC is playing a lot more games but it is being spread out. Cavalry would be playing 1.44 games per week throughout the season while TFC would only be playing 1.35 games per season.

To go even further, Cavalry has a roster of 23 players whereas TFC (at this point) has a roster of 26 players (45 if you count TFCII).

So the MLS teams can easily rotate, and if they would rather send the lambs to the slaughter, then they won't be playing Champions League. I am sure they will rotate their squad just like every other team in the world does for balancing competitions

[BuzzAndSting]

2 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

The MLS teams already tend to play more of their lower end roster guys when they line up against teams like Ottawa. I get that there is fixture congestion, but the fixture congestion in CPL is already way worse. Let's have an example using my bottom bracket, and we'll say that both Cavalry and TFC meet in the final.

Over the course of the season (not including playoffs, CONCACAF League or Champions League) Cavalry will have played 36 games in 25 weeks. TFC will have played 42 games in 31 weeks.

Sure TFC is playing a lot more games but it is being spread out. Cavalry would be playing 1.44 games per week throughout the season while TFC would only be playing 1.35 games per season.

To go even further, Cavalry has a roster of 23 players whereas TFC (at this point) has a roster of 26 players (45 if you count TFCII).

So the MLS teams can easily rotate, and if they would rather send the lambs to the slaughter, then they won't be playing Champions League. I am sure they will rotate their squad just like every other team in the world does for balancing competitions

I didn't realize the ratio of games would be so close. That definitely makes it doable.