Metro Vancouver CPL Club

[Unnamed Trialist]

23 minutes ago, PegCityCam said:

Any updates on what the grounds/pitch/stands are presently looking like in Langley?

Yes

I posted on this two weeks ago, scroll back. Then there are other comments. 

The pitch is there, and the space to put the stands on has been cleared, but nothing more was done as of August 5.

[Big_M]

nothing as far as stands barely eight months away from matchday 1 is a little worrying...is this gonna be another "bring your own seats" situation?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Given this is basically another pop-up they can probably do it in a couple of months.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Given this is basically another pop-up they can probably do it in a couple of months.

As I think I mentioned in another thread or post, they have to do it through a public tender. 

Which means due process. 

It's not technically a pop-up, it'd be modular. A pop up you do for a trade show or summer festival, and set up in 10 days. 

[Watchmen]

I guess Surrey isn't entirely opposed to building new stadiums. They just didn't want to for the CPL.

 

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I guess Surrey isn't entirely opposed to building new stadiums. They just didn't want to for the CPL.

That's your take?

Going with the article, the focus is to surpass Vancouver - with that in mind, the scope of CPL at the time was too small for what they are aiming for - multi-functional fits their long term goal.

Also, who'd be funding this? Surrey without BC? Doubtful

 

[Stanley]

Doug McCallum in a nutbar.

[Watchmen]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

That's your take?

Going with the article, the focus is to surpass Vancouver - with that in mind, the scope of CPL at the time was too small for what they are aiming for - multi-functional fits their long term goal.

Also, who'd be funding this? Surrey without BC? Doubtful

 

Oh, McCallum is an idiot. Even if they lured the BC Lions (possible) and Whitecaps (doubtful) there's no justification for it. It's an election headline grabber.

Having said that, I've heard previously that Surrey does want a pro-team of some sort and is willing to build a stadium/arena for it. So yes, my take is still that if they considered the CPL to be bigger, they'd have built a stadium for them. And it's an open secret that's where the CPL team wanted to be.

[Ansem]

15 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Oh, McCallum is an idiot. Even if they lured the BC Lions (possible) and Whitecaps (doubtful) there's no justification for it. It's an election headline grabber.

Having said that, I've heard previously that Surrey does want a pro-team of some sort and is willing to build a stadium/arena for it. So yes, my take is still that if they considered the CPL to be bigger, they'd have built a stadium for them. And it's an open secret that's where the CPL team wanted to be.

Using your own words...

"my take is still that if they (Vancouver) considered the CPL MLS to be bigger, they'd built a stadium /arena for it.

OR

"my take is still that if they (Montreal) considered the CPL MLS to be bigger, they'd built a stadium /arena for it or change their tax by-laws and/or rezone the area as Saputo has been asking for years.

 

See? Having takes to fit one's narrative isn't hard. I'm thinking it's unrelated to CPL and this is a politician making another promise he knows he won't be able to keep. Unless we're talking "opening ceremony" or part of the bid for the Winter Olympics - not happening.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Ansem

[Watchmen]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Using your own words...

"my take is still that if they (Vancouver) considered the CPL MLS to be bigger, they'd built a stadium /arena for it.

OR

"my take is still that if they (Montreal) considered the CPL MLS to be bigger, they'd built a stadium /arena for it or change their tax by-laws and/or rezone the area as Saputo has been asking for years.

 

See? Having takes to fit one's narrative isn't hard. I'm thinking it's unrelated to CPL and this is a politician making another promise he knows he won't be able to keep. Unless we're talking "opening ceremony" or part of the bid for the Winter Olympics - not happening.

I have some good news for you! There have been rumours kicked around that when BC Place reaches it's end of life (and we can debate that's already passed), that Vancouver considers MLS/CFL to be big enough that they'll look to build a stadium on the current Hastings Park Racetrack! And technically they considered MLS to be big enough back in the late 2000s as well, as they sanctioned a stadium down on the waterfront if the Whitecaps could work a deal with the CP rail for some land. (Spoiler: they could not).

[Ansem]

30 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I have some good news for you! There have been rumours kicked around that when BC Place reaches it's end of life (and we can debate that's already passed), that Vancouver considers MLS/CFL to be big enough that they'll look to build a stadium on the current Hastings Park Racetrack! And technically they considered MLS to be big enough back in the late 2000s as well, as they sanctioned a stadium down on the waterfront if the Whitecaps could work a deal with the CP rail for some land. (Spoiler: they could not).

That's actually great news and I want to those teams to play in a venue that suits them, in the right location and modern! I think they should stay in Vancouver. Wanna bet those 2 teams are now going to use Surrey to make Vancouver a bit more flexible?

I just don't see how this is related to CPL and Surrey seeing them as "too small". That's NOT how government work - you present a business case that's assessed based on its merit. Edmonton saw no value in FC Edmonton proposals. Langford and Halifax liked the business case put forward to them. Montreal and Vancouver don't see the value to give each MLS teams what they want. Has nothing to do with their appreciation of a league vs another or one's feelings

Didn't the CPL group wanted public funds or lands given to them? Not surprised one bit that this proposal didn't go over well - that's a bad proposal to make and without a storied track-record. (Yes - I'm criticizing the league, don't faint) 😁. Same for the Belan project expecting Saskatoon to gift them downtown land - that's just crazy and

Without going into details, in this context of housing shortage - a sport venue must have so many strings attached to make them publicly acceptable that the price tag goes up very fast. You'd need BC and nothing less than a 100% confirmation that those teams are on board AND paying a significant amount of capital.

Otherwise, this below is a cautionary tale of what NOT to do which is what the Surrey mayor is implying --> Build it and they'll come. No way BC goes there.

Quebec City -->This fiasco is brought to you by politician's appreciation of a league they views a "major league" making decisions based on their own "feelings"

Videotron Centre (~$400M later)

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Ansem

[Stanley]

37 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

 And technically they considered MLS to be big enough back in the late 2000s as well, as they sanctioned a stadium down on the waterfront if the Whitecaps could work a deal with the CP rail for some land. (Spoiler: they could not).

Actually the proposed Waterfront stadium was not intended for a proposed MLS stadium.  Thats when the Caps were making a big deal about being the "Biggest" minor league soccer team around.

[Watchmen]

1 minute ago, Stanley said:

Actually the proposed Waterfront stadium was not intended for a proposed MLS stadium.  Thats when the Caps were making a big deal about being the "Biggest" minor league soccer team around.

I mean, yes and no. They were still in USL, but it was also clear that they were about to push to be in MLS. The city dragged it's heels, then passed the buck to CP rail. Negotiations bogged down, and the province came to them with a proposal to use a revamped BC Place for their MLS bid (at a big discount). 

[narduch]

Does Vancouver need a 60,000 seat stadium?

[Stanley]

31 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I mean, yes and no. They were still in USL, but it was also clear that they were about to push to be in MLS. The city dragged it's heels, then passed the buck to CP rail. Negotiations bogged down, and the province came to them with a proposal to use a revamped BC Place for their MLS bid (at a big discount). 

There was also that whole thing about "Whitecaps fans coming in to that area and raping the prostitutes" issue that the people against the stadium were bringing up.

[Watchmen]

1 minute ago, Stanley said:

There was also that whole thing about "Whitecaps fans coming in to that area and raping the prostitutes" issue that the people against the stadium were bringing up.

Yup. And "massive chemical spills under the stadium during a game" paranoia. But both those things were pretty much pushed by a rival developer stocking the people in that are.

[SpursFlu]

FAs much as the mayor announced the stadium idea like a drunk uncle I do think something is in the works. Not sure about 60k but something for the Lions makes sense but don't rule out MLB. The only way a 60k stadium makes sense is if there was an NFL team involved. Because the proximity to the US, it's interesting but 60k seems a bit much

[Unnamed Trialist]

29 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

FAs much as the mayor announced the stadium idea like a drunk uncle I do think something is in the works. Not sure about 60k but something for the Lions makes sense but don't rule out MLB. The only way a 60k stadium makes sense is if there was an NFL team involved. Because the proximity to the US, it's interesting but 60k seems a bit much

It's municipal election year. If you notice the reactions to the tweet, there are typical shills working for the mayor's party arguing that this announcement fulfils their previously announced programme. Proudly boasting about how the mayor has fulfilled his promise. 

What is funny about it is that usually you fulfil a programme by acting on it, not waiting almost 4 years and then making announcements with no foundation a few weeks before the mayoralty race begins. They haven't committed land, they have no tenant, they clearly refused the CPL bid a few years ago and likely more recently. Langley is actually ahead of them as they have the pro basketball team as well. 

They are currently building an athletics centre with permanent seating for just over 2000 that will cost over 20 million--now that is the sort of scale their minds excecute at, the rest is fantasy island.

So I agree with you, 60,000 makes little sense; anything over 25000 would be unreasonable. Unless they are thinking about concerts and monster trucks.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[Watchmen]

14 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's municipal election year. If you notice the reactions to the tweet, there are typical shills working for the mayor's party arguing that this announcement fulfils their previously announced programme. Proudly boasting about how the mayor has fulfilled his promise. 

What is funny about it is that usually you fulfil a programme by acting on it, not waiting almost 4 years and then making announcements with no foundation a few weeks before the mayoralty race begins. They haven't committed land, they have no tenant, they clearly refused the CPL bid a few years ago and likely more recently. Langley is actually ahead of them as they have the pro basketball team as well. 

They are currently building an athletics centre with permanent seating for just over 2000 that will cost over 20 million--now that is the sort of scale their minds excecute at, the rest is fantasy island.

So I agree with you, 60,000 makes little sense; anything over 25000 would be unreasonable. Unless they are thinking about concerts and monster trucks.

It's funny. If he'd said "we're willing to build a stadium for an MLB team", it would still be a dumb idea but there's enough MLB teams looking to relocate that he might have been able to get people to take it seriously. Instead, he's announcing their willing to build a giant stadium with no real plan or tenant.

[SpursFlu]

29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's municipal election year. If you notice the reactions to the tweet, there are typical shills working for the mayor's party arguing that this announcement fulfils their previously announced programme. Proudly boasting about how the mayor has fulfilled his promise. 

What is funny about it is that usually you fulfil a programme by acting on it, not waiting almost 4 years and then making announcements with no foundation a few weeks before the mayoralty race begins. They haven't committed land, they have no tenant, they clearly refused the CPL bid a few years ago and likely more recently. Langley is actually ahead of them as they have the pro basketball team as well. 

They are currently building an athletics centre with permanent seating for just over 2000 that will cost over 20 million--now that is the sort of scale their minds excecute at, the rest is fantasy island.

So I agree with you, 60,000 makes little sense; anything over 25000 would be unreasonable. Unless they are thinking about concerts and monster trucks.

Not if it's an MLB stadium.. would have to be 40-50k. I get the election thing but that'd a bit of a doozy to pull out your ass unless there is some truth to it or there hasn't been some consideration.

I'm not sure if there is a modern way you can build a baseball/football stadium that doesnt suck but I definitely think a mlb/ Lions 40k ish stadium would definitely work in Surrey/fraser Valley. The 3 locations referred to have to have to be Bridgeview, Green Timbers and Fraser Hwy 176th.

Whitecaps would never go out there, they're too strongly associated and have a strong following in Vancouver  

The article states that half the Lions season ticket holders are from Surrey where I've been told that Surrey isn't even top 5 for Whitecaps 

Edited August 25, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Not if it's an MLB stadium.. would have to be 40-50k. I get the election thing but that'd a bit of a doozy to pull out your ass unless there is some truth to it or there hasn't been some consideration.

I'm not sure if there is a modern way you can build a baseball/football stadium that doesnt suck but I definitely think a mlb/ Lions 40k ish stadium would definitely work in Surrey/fraser Valley. The 3 locations referred to have to have to be Bridgeview, Green Timbers and Fraser Hwy 176th.

Whitecaps would never go out there, they're too strongly associated and have a strong following in Vancouver  

The article states that half the Lions season ticket holders are from Surrey where I've been told that Surrey isn't even top 5 for Whitecaps 

Still, it's a confusion of principles.

The principle is that a major city should have big city amenities. I agree. For too long the cities making up the metropolitan area have let the City of Vancouver lead in things like cultural amenities, sports, and then of course do a lot of their social dumping on the main municipality as well (more complex issue, and admittedly Surrey does not outsource all its crime to Vancouver any more).

So if you can have a major institution in higher education, seek it out. And a municipal theatre and art museum. Core sports facilities, libraries (only latest generation of course). Fully developed public transit. But in all cases the infrastructures follow existing use, you don't put a subway stop in the desert.

A stadium is a white elephant if there is no content. They did this in Sevilla, in an attempted Olympics bid, they built a third stadium in an urban area of  1.4 million to try to win a bid. 

In many emerging European urban areas, they build stadiums that seem too big, but usually because there is a lower tier football club they think might be able to promote a few divisions and do the area proud. Sometimes private funding, sometimes public, often mixed. The stadium in Villareal (called El Madrigal, now Cerámica), giving an example of a small city, is municipal. And it is modest, the original was from literally 99 years ago; but it is expanded and scaled that way because a wealthy businessman with local interests bought the team and began to grow it. 22,000 it seats, in a city of 50,000. 

They'll never get funding from the province, and thus not from the feds either, to compete with the province's main infrastructure in stadiums which was very recently renewed at an astronomical cost of over 500,000,000 dollars. 

[Kingston]

12 hours ago, narduch said:

Does Vancouver need a 60,000 seat stadium?

I'd say no.

The Lions and the Whitecaps in a 60 000 seat stadium have the same problem the as the CPL teams that play in 25 000 seat CFL venues.

Something more like BMO Field - 30 000 but expandable - would seem to be a much better fit.

[MtlMario]

I'm no expert in the area but the first thing I looked at was if the article was dated April 1. And here in P.Q. we can't even find anyone to build a 6k stadium.☹️

[SpursFlu]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Still, it's a confusion of principles.

The principle is that a major city should have big city amenities. I agree. For too long the cities making up the metropolitan area have let the City of Vancouver lead in things like cultural amenities, sports, and then of course do a lot of their social dumping on the main municipality as well (more complex issue, and admittedly Surrey does not outsource all its crime to Vancouver any more).

So if you can have a major institution in higher education, seek it out. And a municipal theatre and art museum. Core sports facilities, libraries (only latest generation of course). Fully developed public transit. But in all cases the infrastructures follow existing use, you don't put a subway stop in the desert.

A stadium is a white elephant if there is no content. They did this in Sevilla, in an attempted Olympics bid, they built a third stadium in an urban area of  1.4 million to try to win a bid. 

In many emerging European urban areas, they build stadiums that seem too big, but usually because there is a lower tier football club they think might be able to promote a few divisions and do the area proud. Sometimes private funding, sometimes public, often mixed. The stadium in Villareal (called El Madrigal, now Cerámica), giving an example of a small city, is municipal. And it is modest, the original was from literally 99 years ago; but it is expanded and scaled that way because a wealthy businessman with local interests bought the team and began to grow it. 22,000 it seats, in a city of 50,000. 

They'll never get funding from the province, and thus not from the feds either, to compete with the province's main infrastructure in stadiums which was very recently renewed at an astronomical cost of over 500,000,000 dollars. 

I think there are only 2 ways a stadium like that makes sense then it makes a lot of sense in Surrey 

MLB team or NFL team

Edited August 25, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Unnamed Trialist]

41 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think there are only 2 ways a stadium like that makes sense then it makes a lot of sense in Surrey 

MLB team or NFL team

As we know, neither configuration is ideal for soccer.

Baseball converts badly, and NFL to be optimum has to be smaller, but it could work of course. But NFL is highly unlikely for reasons we all know, apart from all the conflicts that would arise with the CFL.

If someone in Surrey were to make a move for baseball, I'd think it'd be great, Vancouver could do with another pro sport, and it'd be uncontested (this from an old Expos fan, when I lived in Mtl). But even then, look at T-Mobile in Seattle, a lovely field with good atmosphere, in a bigger city. Capacity under 48,000. A downtown stadium, or just slightly off. T-Mobile is one of the bigger MLB stadiums, and the biggest, where the As play, is still under 60,000.