Ottawa CPL Club

[Guest]

Just now, Big_M said:

He scored 30 in div2 which is 4th tier

Regardless if theres no cpl player that fits that description, saying he was disrespecting cpl based on that is just wrong and dishonest

Just out of interest, what is your alternative theory? Why would he even mention Belgian third division?

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Big_M said:

He scored 30 in div2 which is 4th tier

Regardless if theres no cpl player that fits that description, saying he was disrespecting cpl based on that is just wrong and dishonest

Come on.  Really?  It may not have been a perfectly specific reference but there is no way that wasn't intended as a commentary on CPL.  How else could that comment make sense.  

[Dominic94]

16 hours ago, matty said:

I agree with a lot of your talking points but do take some issue with these two.

I honestly do not think the deal was as valuable at the time the Fury opted not to join (if it was in existence at that point). Like if the Fury said no to joining a league that was on the verge of that deal they'd be completely insane and monoric. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say I don't think they're that insane or stupid. They've acted very cautious and self-preservationist for the last 6 months and them saying no to that deal doesn't fit with their actions. On top of that, the ownership have proven capable in the CFL so they're not complete jackasses.

The last part, yes they take months but they don't take 4-6 months to hammer out the main details. Last September, when all this started (not counting the 2 months prior they hadn't spoken), it's very possible the VW and MediaPro deals weren't near the levels they've reached as the fan commitments had not yet fully started and the league had not yet set how many teams it would feature. The finalization of the number of teams and the successes of the founding members drives likely happened before the $200m deal was on the table or VW decided to become the founding partner. The only deal that Ottawa would have known was Macron, who are still pretty unknown in North America.

Yes Ottawa bet on the wrong horse but let's not just bluntly imply they're run by a bunch of completely braindead goons. I know this guy is getting to people but fuck him, he's not worth it.

They would of known, numbers come up pretty early in these contexts, it matters, numbers and term.

and it could of easily taken 6 months to hammer out, also they may have dealyed it ? Let’s not forget there may have been other companies bidding.

i would think at the least they knew about marcon and VW. 

[Dominic94]

15 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What was mentioned in the press releases was an "investment" rather than revenue. Around a year ago David Clanachan described $500 million in projected economic activity associated with operating the league over the next decade as being an investment.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon/2018/01/14/clarifying-investment-of-500m-in-the-new-canadian-premier-and-spitballing-budget-numbers/#5b5f44255bdd

...I received a prompt response from Greg McIsaac who is handling communications for the CPL.

“I am confirming that that the Commissioner was speaking colloquially to Kurt Larson. He was making a general reference to the economic activity that will be driven through the CPL’s development of players, coaches, administrators and the overall professionalising of the game in Canada.”

Given that the context of $500M over 10 years is "economic activity" it changes my understanding of the level of spending across the league...

The Mediapro deal is probably very beneficial to the league, time will tell, but some people on here are making some very big assumptions about it right now that may not prove to be warranted.

Still significant enough to show that the league would be around longer than a year and would be viable.

[matty]

9 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

They would of known, numbers come up pretty early in these contexts, it matters, numbers and term.

and it could of easily taken 6 months to hammer out, also they may have dealyed it ? Let’s not forget there may have been other companies bidding.

i would think at the least they knew about marcon and VW. 

for a media deal that number would be unlikely to be out there without a lot of stuff confirmed first and if they did have that number, why would ottawa reject? I'm sorry but that is unlikely to have been known then.

i agree they likely knew macron but vw it's very possible that it wasn't known even to the league. of the 3 deals that one would have taken the least amount of time to be agreed upon.

both of these deals could have been hammered out in under 4 months and let's not deny that fact in order to say ottawa are dumb fucks

[Guest]

To summarize, we do not know what Ottawa Fury did or did not know.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

To summarize, we do not know what Ottawa Fury did or did not know.

exactumundo.

[longlugan]

7 hours ago, matty said:

exactumundo.

But they're still dumb fucks ?

[matty]

1 minute ago, longlugan said:

But they're still dumb fucks ?

ehhh more like the dumb fuck who didn't buy apple stock in 1980 than the dumb fuck who threw a chair off a 25th floor balcony onto a major road for no reason

[longlugan]

Just now, matty said:

ehhh more like the dumb fuck who didn't buy apple stock in 1980 than the dumb fuck who threw a chair off a 25th floor balcony onto a major road for no reason

Exactumundo

[matty]

Just now, longlugan said:

Exactumundo

off topic: pretty sure chair girl will end up with a record deal and a hit song in like a year and a bit

back on topic: *nods*

[CDNFootballer]

With Rollins tweet of TFC wanting a formal arrangement with Ottawa Fury (minor league affiliate/farm team) this would likely keep the Fury out of the CPL as Canada's Div 1 does not want any minor league affiliates/farm teams as they would undermine the league.

Fury may have "exceptional circumstances" with such an arrangement and remain in USL indefinitely, and imo its better they stay in USL if they want to remain a minor league team to a parent MLS club.

Put a CPL club in the Ottawa suburb of Gatineau or wait out the Fury till they sell or fold.

[Ansem]

33 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

With Rollins tweet of TFC wanting a formal arrangement with Ottawa Fury (minor league affiliate/farm team) this would likely keep the Fury out of the CPL as Canada's Div 1 does not want any minor league affiliates/farm teams as they would undermine the league.

Fury may have "exceptional circumstances" with such an arrangement and remain in USL indefinitely, and imo its better they stay in USL if they want to remain a minor league team to a parent MLS club.

Put a CPL club in the Ottawa suburb of Gatineau or wait out the Fury till they sell or fold.

CONCACAF is very unlikely to care about that. Bottom line is that they are In USL Championship and a Canadian alternative exists. TFC deals wouldn't matter, nor does it qualify them under "Exceptional circumstances"

[Ottawafan74]

2 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

With Rollins tweet of TFC wanting a formal arrangement with Ottawa Fury (minor league affiliate/farm team) this would likely keep the Fury out of the CPL as Canada's Div 1 does not want any minor league affiliates/farm teams as they would undermine the league.

Fury may have "exceptional circumstances" with such an arrangement and remain in USL indefinitely, and imo its better they stay in USL if they want to remain a minor league team to a parent MLS club.

Put a CPL club in the Ottawa suburb of Gatineau or wait out the Fury till they sell or fold.

I can’t see two pro clubs working out in the area. 

[Ams1984]

11 hours ago, Ottawafan74 said:

I can’t see two pro clubs working out in the area. 

Right, the Fury would likely fold. 

[Ottawafan74]

Based on what?

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Based on what?

We told you.

That's on OSEG. 

If CONCACAF denies them sanctioning for 2020, these are their choices 

1.Comply and play in a Canadian League (CPL or L10).

2. Fold and CPL start their own team

3..Fight it to the CAS. Losing brings them back to choosing between option 1 or 2. 

In any of these scenarios, CPL will operate in Ottawa one way or another.

What got taken off the table from the Fury is "We'll see...we'll observe...Maybe in a few years" attitude. They have to decide in 2020 and that's for everyone good so we can all move on from this.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Ansem

[Sébastien]

5 hours ago, Ansem said:

We told you.

That's on OSEG. 

If CONCACAF denies them sanctioning for 2020, these are their choices 

1.Comply and play in a Canadian League (CPL or L10).

2. Fold and CPL start their own team

3..Fight it to the CAS. Losing brings them back to choosing between option 1 or 2. 

In any of these scenarios, CPL will operate in Ottawa one way or another.

What got taken off the table from the Fury is "We'll see...we'll observe...Maybe in a few years" attitude. They have to decide in 2020 and that's for everyone good so we can all move on from this.

... maybe. Don't get me wrong, I hope they do. But there has been no official statement saying that this is the case. Just some rumblings about CONCACAF telling them they wouldn't get renewed, the accuracy of which I doubt.

If that indeed happened, then the Fury would have a stronger case at CAS, if they appealed the decision, as they could show that CONCACAF's decision was taken with complete disregard for the facts, and that the application was studied in bad faith.

Frankly, I hope (and think) that CONCACF lawyers are smarter than that.

Hoping for Fury in CPL in 2020, but saying that it's that or fold, and pretending it's a fact rather than an opinion, is misleading at best, and dishonest at worst.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Sébastien

[matty]

Can you guys imagine if Fury sued everyone (CONCACAF, CPL, CSA) claiming there was a conspiracy against them in civil court and won?

[Ams1984]

34 minutes ago, matty said:

Can you guys imagine if Fury sued everyone (CONCACAF, CPL, CSA) claiming there was a conspiracy against them in civil court and won?

About as likely as snow in July. 

[Ottawafan74]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

We told you.

That's on OSEG. 

If CONCACAF denies them sanctioning for 2020, these are their choices 

1.Comply and play in a Canadian League (CPL or L10).

2. Fold and CPL start their own team

3..Fight it to the CAS. Losing brings them back to choosing between option 1 or 2. 

In any of these scenarios, CPL will operate in Ottawa one way or another.

What got taken off the table from the Fury is "We'll see...we'll observe...Maybe in a few years" attitude. They have to decide in 2020 and that's for everyone good so we can all move on from this.

Lots of supposition on your part there. My only comment on that would be if the CPL and CONCACAF had such an airtight case, why’d they back down?

Guess we will see. 

[Ansem]

27 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Lots of supposition on your part there. My only comment on that would be if the CPL and CONCACAF had such an airtight case, why’d they back down?

Guess we will see. 

Lots of supposition... you're doing that by dragging CPL into this.

Again, some Fury fans don't make the distinction between 2019 and 2020. CONCACAF ruling came very late and the Fury were already prepping for the 2019 season. The Fury we're going to CAS to get an injunction allowing them to play 2019 while fighting CONCACAF ruling, which most likely, they would have gotten.

2020, is entirely different. Now they can't argue that there isn't enough notice. They've been told very clearly where CONCACAF stood, so that argument won't work in CAS. Meaning that if CONCACAF denies them 2020, they won't get an injunction. They either play in a Canadian league or they don't play period. May they choose to fight the ruling itself, they would remain unsanctioned.

That's the difference. As for fighting CONCACAF rational that they don't fit the "exceptional circumstances", their chance at winning that case are very thin...at best.

[matty]

1 hour ago, Ams1984 said:

About as likely as snow in July. 

what that they sue in civil court or win in civil court? either way i disagree because i think either could happen

Edited February 24, 2019 by matty

[Ams1984]

46 minutes ago, matty said:

what that they sue in civil court or win in civil court? either way i disagree because i think either could happen

So here’s my two cents about the unlikelihood of both:

1) the judicial process is slow. If Ottawa filed suit, there might not be a resolution to the matter for a couple of years from the time they filed. I think that a year or two in Court would hurt the Fury way more than Concacaf, the CPL, or the CSA. Particularly because a lawsuit would likely be sparked by a decision not to sanction them; they might find themselves in Court and with no on-field operations during the entire process because they’d have no league to play in until the matter of sanctioning worked out (or not). Never mind the jurisdictional and forum issues that might ensue... it might be tough to get Concacaf joined and into a Canadian Court. Two court cases would sap their resources further, and might cause even longer delays (or perhaps a stay of one proceeding to await the outcome of the other). 

2) the only solution to the above would be some kind of equitable remedy, like an injunction, and those aren’t easy to get. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but the Fury would be foolish to view it is likely, to count on it to allow them to play in USL during the suit. 

Regarding the merits, I think they’d be up against it. Anyone who tells you that they know how a Court will rule is lying or uninformed. The judicial process is unpredictable. That being said, I don’t believe that they’d have very good chance in Court. Sanctioning is a privilege, given out at the discretion of the pertinent body. The Fury would have the burden of proof, and I can’t even imagine what a viable cause of action might be, especially if they’re given more warning this time. I’m sure that Concacaf will provide (if not publicly) some reasoning for denying sanctioning, and I think that we can all guess at what it will be. The exceptional circumstances meriting the Fury’s presence in the USL are gone. 

The Fury can argue that that’s incorrect, but it’s immaterial, even if true. Again, they don’t have a right to be sanctioned, and I’m pretty sure that the exceptional circumstances need to be determined by Concacaf, at their discretion alone. 

We’ll see I guess, but if Concacaf decides to play hardball, I’m not sure what the Fury can do about it. 

[MM3/MM2/MM]

If I am correct as a FIFA member civil court is not an option.