Ottawa CPL Club

[Ansem]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, I have been a pretty vocal critic of the Fury FO during this, but I don't see any of that happening.  To the casual fan it would be unnecessary since most likely have no idea of this battle between CPL/Fury/CONCACAF.  And to those who know, some rebranding and shuffling of the deck chairs would change the fact that the ownership group has presumably sanctioned the tactics we have witnessed.

They will get in or not based on what is best for all parties, but i can't see that laundry list of demands being made.  Plus, I would rather CPL stick to the high ground on this one and let the Fury be the ones getting down in the muck.  

I think what's best for all parties is the success of a Ottawa CPL team, which in turns benefits OSEG in the end. I doubt that the league has any desire to keep the Fury brand around which is just a reminder of the CONCACAF / CPL / CSA drama to the hardcores and local media, which you still need. This is a coast to coast league and the FUry are relatively unknown elsewhere, rebranding makes sense to reintroduce yourself not only to your market but to potential fans across the country. Does the Fury brand have a better chance to achieve that? I seriously doubt it.

Also, the league would want to move on from the association and comparison with USL Championship, which is bound to happen. They clearly want to be their own thing and although escaping comparison with MLS is impossible, they don't want those questions on USL C to keep coming back. They are determined to be D1 in Canada and cutting all ties with USL C (a D2) is for the best. Sure the hardcores and local mediawill go back to that, but all those potential casuals out there ripe for the taking don't need to be needlessly dragged into that. You want to start fresh under such circumstances and win them over. These casuals are the one you need to convert to get to the next level, not appeasing existing hardcore fans that despite some initial or medium term bitching, will keep following their team. Bitching is caring after all.

Also, whatever the Fury we're doing wasn't good enough to attract more casuals. Not saying their branding is the problem, but improvement are always possible and a name & identity more in line with the region might appeal way more than it currently does. The league would most likely want the team to follow the league's model of having a brand that reflects their community.

I have no clue what's so "furious" about Ottawa, maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't fit. As a league or any business, you can't have people like JDG, that's why there's a lot of firing or laying offs when a company takes over.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ansem

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I understand why the CPL would want a club in Ottawa, my question was in regards to the part I bolded about changing the name and logo.

Why would the league want to take in a team only to tear down the brand that has already been built in the market?!

see my response above.

[dyslexic nam]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I think what's best for all parties is the success of a Ottawa CPL team, which in turns benefits OSEG in the end. I doubt that the league has any desire to keep the Fury brand around which is just a reminder of the CONCACAF / CPL drama to the hardcores and media, which you still need. Also, the league would want to move on from that association and comparison with USL Championship, which is bound to happen. Sure the hardcores and media may go back to that, but all those potential casuals out there ripe for the taking don't need to be needlessly dragged into that. You want to start fresh under such circumstances.

Also, whatever the Fury we're doing wasn't good enough to attract more casuals. Not saying their branding is the problem, but improvement are always possible and a name & identity more in line with the region might appeal way more than it currently does. The league would most likely want the team to follow the league's model of having a brand that reflects their community.

I have no clue what's so "furious" about Ottawa, maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't fit. As a league or any business, you can't have people like JDG, that's why there's a lot of firing or laying offs when a company takes over.

 

I just don't see it happening.  Ottawa have clearly shown they can hold a grudge - and are willing to go to war over it.  Approaching them with a list of demands that includes the league dictating their personnel and destroying their brand is simply a non-starter.   

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

On top of that, they can demand that the like of JDG be removed.

 

Getting upset with JDG is bit like getting upset with a ventriloquist's dummy. Like Kurt Larson, if he got hired by CanPL he would soon start singing a different tune.

In general, it is probably going too far to say only Kyle Becker, but the signings that have been made by CanPL teams are not what would have been expected on here a year ago. Anyone suggesting that U-sports,  L1O and the Swedish third and fourth tiers would feature so prominently in player recruitment terms would have been ridiculed.

Fingers crossed this relatively low budget strategy works. It's inherently risky to attempt a seven team league launch like this. That makes it understandable to adopt a wait and see posture, if like the Fury you are happy where you already are.

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

 

I just don't see it happening.  Ottawa have clearly shown they can hold a grudge - and are willing to go to war over it.  Approaching them with a list of demands that includes the league dictating their personnel and destroying their brand is simply a non-starter.   

You're asking them to upgrade, to give themselves a chance to win over more fans and converts those they couldn't all those years while actually standing a chance of making fans across the country. Sure the league isn't being selfless, but it would be pitch as such. If the league is right, OSEG wins as well and might actually make money or break even for a change. It's a win-win

As for the potential litigation over OSEG refusing a rebrand, my scenario only applies in a case where CONCACAF doesn't renew the sanction and CAS doesn't work out. They would disagree but they "virtually" would have no choice. A sports league have the right to fix conditions to join it and this drama going south would leave OSEG with little to no bargaining chips

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ansem

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Getting upset with JDG is bit like getting upset with a ventriloquist's dummy. Like Kurt Larson, if he got hired by CanPL he would soon start singing a different tune.

The reality of the business world is that most serious companies wouldn't risk it nor put up with it. It's way more common than you think.

11 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

That makes it understandable to adopt a wait and see posture, if like the Fury you are happy where you already are

The reasoning of the "wait and see" wasn't the problem and most find this position understandable, is how they completely mishandled their decision publicly and picking up fights with everyone, all the way to CONCACAF & FIFA. In a business perspective, it's like the entry level employee not liking a rule that works against him and going to the media to argue it and picking up fights with the CEO threatening them with court procedures? People need to realized how bad they fucked up here and stop minimizing it with "cooler heads will prevail" Sure it would if they were Real Madrid, but they aren't.

My friend, that RARELY ends well for such an employee. It's called "overplaying" your hand. Whatever happens, OSEG doesn't get it's happy ending.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ansem

[matty]

why the fuck would you take on a 15+ year old brand with strong local roots in a market you want only to kill it fully for stupid superficial reasons? like the usl point makes little sense as mls has been fine letting teams joining from usl keep their name so it just comes down to politics and petty power plays

Edited February 20, 2019 by matty

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

why the fuck would you take on a 15+ year old brand with strong local roots in a market you want only to kill it fully for stupid superficial reasons?

What was their average attendance? TV ratings? Merch sales? National exposure? International exposure? Sponsorships? Overall reputation? Conversion rate of casuals? (well we all know the answer to that one)

You got to think bigger than that and those "strong roots" for a market that size are way too low. The region can do much better. That's marketing. Are you trying to keep the same people going to the games or are you trying to double or triple your base?

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ansem

[matty]

12 minutes ago, Ansem said:

What was their average attendance? TV ratings? Merch sales? National exposure? International exposure?

You got to think bigger than that and those "strong roots" for a market that size are way too low. The region can do much better. That's marketing.

they've done over 4500 every year they've existed (in thr current form) which is better than fce did during it's first era. btw remember the stubbornness fce did back in 2015 or 16, they hit a similar road block to what you've described to fury but did not under go a total rebrand.

we don't have merch numbers (the only valid thing you've mentioned there because it's not about national it's about the local.market) because teams often don't publish them and we don't get published reports for broadcast numbers in canada for any team anymore. if the cpl is streaming like fury they'll likely be in a similar range unless cpl has mass mass appeal.

Edited February 20, 2019 by matty

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

they've done over 4500 every year they've existed which is better than fce did during it's first era. btw remember the stubbornness fce did back in 2015 or 16, they hit a similar road block to what you've described to fury but did not under go a total rebrand.

we don't have merch numbers (the only valid thing you've mentioned there because it's not about national it's about the local.market) because teams often don't publish them and we don't get published reports for broadcast numbers in canada for any team anymore.

Ottawa is a bigger market and should do better.

As for the branding part, FC Edmonton had way more leverage when  the league wanted them. The Fury did too but after all this drama unraveling and potentially cumulating with CAS litigation or them being left in a position where CPL is their only option, they have no choice but to conform to whatever the league tells them to do.

There was nothing "ugly" in FC Edmonton joining CPL, even if they would have opted to wait and see. NASL folding means no one's playing the comparison game.

 OSEG made this ugly and from the league's perspective, you need this to go away.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ansem

[matty]

27 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Ottawa is a bigger market and should do better.

As for the branding part, FC Edmonton had way more leverage when  the league wanted them. The Fury did too but after all this drama unraveling and potentially cumulating with CAS litigation or them being left in a position where CPL is their only option, they have no choice but to conform to whatever the league tells them to do. There was nothing "ugly" in FC Edmonton joining CPL, even if they would have opted to wait and see. OSEG made this ugly and from the league's perspective, you need this to go away.

ottawa is only 2k people bigger than edmonton dude. I'd add calgary is bigger and i think you'd call cavs doing ottawa numbers a modest success.

fce didn't have far more, they were dead but willing to join cpl (late if you recall early docs). cpl could have run 6 teams (as they were ok doing) but opted to grant the dead team a spot. i agree things were never as ugly but the ugly was started by concacaf. we can say fury went to war but i think that was expected given the circumstances. re jdg you could put that in league with larson who now works for cpl

back to the main point the killing of the brand would be superficial pettiness on the cpl's part and if oseg really don't care enough about soccer could cause a really dumb delay on getting a team in ottawa. you say ottawa has nothing but they do have control of Ottawa's best venue and if they don't want to be dictated to they could just close up shop.  if they wanna just fill dates they could just start a rugby team 

Edited February 20, 2019 by matty

[Ansem]

29 minutes ago, matty said:

back to the main point the killing of the brand would be superficial pettiness on the cpl's part and if oseg really don't care enough about soccer could cause a really dumb delay on getting a team in ottawa

It's not about "killing the brand" or "pettiness". It's about sustainable growth. You could stay "as is" or pursue a brand that the whole NCR can identify with (Anglos and Francos) while getting of rid of potential obstacles (Comparison to USL C - bitterness from some parties over being "forced" into CPL). You want those people on the Quebec side to embrace that team and feel involved when Laval or Quebec City visits.

Rebranding is an opportunity to get more people behind it and for OSEG to send the message that they are over the past drama and 1000% embrace CPL for all that it is so that their current fanbase follows. That's why you can't keep a JDG & Company around. 

I mean we all see it on social media... "Ottawa vs. everyone else". Sure it's cool to have a team to be designated as "the villain" but not enough people care coast to coast to make it a thing (casuals) and you actually want those Ottawa hardcore fans to also be fans of the league too so they consume more of your product. You need that passion to be part of the league, not against it.

I don't see the "Fury" resonate with the casuals in Ottawa, let alone the NCR & Francophones in Gatineau. Going back to the population, it's the NCR that's only 2k bigger than Edmonton, not the city, so it's logical that you want to include the NCR this time around. It's a marketing pitch the league would make to OSEG which most likely cares more about increase revenues.

If OSEG doesn't care about soccer as you say, they'll simply fold and someone else will take their place.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ansem

[Kent]

On 2/19/2019 at 10:43 AM, mpg_29 said:

What's up with JDG seemingly being so anti-CPL?....I don't get it...

Especially since if I recall correctly, he was talking about a new Canadian league with excitement when he signed with Ottawa as a player. I thought it was his reason for signing with Ottawa.

[matty]

11 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's not about "killing the brand" or "pettiness". It's about sustainable growth. You could stay "as is" or pursue a brand that the whole NCR can identify with (Anglos and Francos) while getting of potential obstacles (Comparison to USL C - bitterness from some parties over being "forced" into CPL). Rebranding is an opportunity to get more people behind it and for OSEG to send the message that they are over the past drama and a 1000% embrace CPL for all that it is. That's why you can't keep a JDG around. 

I don't see the "Fury" resonate with the casuals in Ottawa, let alone the NCR & Francophones. Going back to the population, it's the NCR that's only 2k bigger than Edmonton, not the city, so it's logical that you want to include the NCR this time around. It's a marketing pitch the league would make to OSEG which most likely cares more about increase revenues.

If OSEG doesn't care about soccer as you say, they'll simply fold and someone else will take their place.

that is literally killing the brand you are changing the entite branding of the team. you're saying it's about growth but that has nothing to back it up, in fact there's more to say you're back at square 1 locally. you're mentioning usl comparisons but mls doesn't make teams joining change their brand so why force that (and you're talking about cpl forcing this). 

also your numbers are off as both the urban and metro populations of edmonton are within 2-3k of Ottawa's and oseg opted to use the branding because they saw local value to it. i don't get why you think they haven't explored the issues you've mentioned.

the only thing you mention of value is this era of ugly and forcing a team to change it's name over that has very petty optics.

while someone might the question is when.

the move isn't a good one dude. just accept that no one agrees with the move and let it be

[Guest]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Ottawa Fury should be able to play wherever they want for as long as they want.

If they want to come to CPL they should and will be welcomed with open arms as CPL will be stronger with them than without. But they must adhere to ALL CPL rules, including wage caps. Their choice of branding is their own: I see no reason for CPL to interfere.

I fully expect to see the Ottawa Fury in CPL in 2020. Just as England have Manchester F'ing United, Canada will have Ottawa F'ing Fury. So be it.

Edited February 20, 2019 by dsqpr

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, matty said:

that is literally killing the brand you are changing the entite branding of the team. you're saying it's about growth but that has nothing to back it up, in fact there's more to say you're back at square 1 locally. you're mentioning usl comparisons but mls doesn't make teams joining change their brand so why force that (and you're talking about cpl forcing this). 

also your numbers are off as both the urban and metro populations of edmonton are within 2-3k of Ottawa's and oseg opted to use the branding because they saw local value to it. i don't get why you think they haven't explored the issues you've mentioned.

the only thing you mention of value is this era of ugly and forcing a team to change it's name over that has very petty optics. 

while someone might the question is when.

the move isn't a good one dude. just accept that no one agrees with the move and let it be

The most drastic thing I've said was the name change due to the "ugliness" of the current situation. It's unique thus not surprising if that came up if both parties came to the table.

OSEG certainly might see the value to hold on to the name "Fury" but a rebrand is fairly common and not limited with name change. Logo change, colors change, motto and slogans as well which brings a culture change with it, hence my point of the unlikeliness of JDG being a GM in CPL.

Even location name changes sometimes if a team feels it's necessary to capture more fans or be more relatable. Of course, there's lots of marketing work to determine if it's worth it or not but the smart thing to do is to explore it nonetheless if there's a window to do it and if the data backs it.

• Phoenix Coyotes --> Arizona Coyotes
• Winnipeg Jets were considering "Manitoba" or "Moose"
• New Orleans changing from Hornets to Pelicans

etc...

Contrarily to popular beliefs, leagues usually have last say on the name, approving it or not,  and I don't think this case would be any different in the context of a North American League.

An interesting read that you might appreciated instead of saying that there's no value to what I'm saying just because you disagree

Renaming a Franchise Means More Than Finding a New Mascot

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/sports/15rename.html

You might find my scenario unlikely (fair), but it's far from impossible.

A brand (not rebrand) change is also likely

A Sports Team Uses Data To Transform Its Brand

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveolenski/2017/07/25/a-sports-team-uses-data-to-transform-its-brand/#67f93c1c7d14

Edited February 20, 2019 by Ansem

[matty]

12 minutes ago, Ansem said:

The most drastic thing I've said was the name change due to the "ugliness" of the current situation. It's unique thus not surprising if that came up if both parties came to the table.

OSEG certainly might see the value to hold on to the name "Fury" but a rebrand is fairly common and not limited with name change. Logo change, colors change, motto and slogans as well which brings a culture change with it, hence my point of the unlikeliness of JDG being a GM in CPL.

Even location name changes sometimes if a team feels it's necessary to capture more fans or be more relatable. Of course, there's lots of marketing work to determine if it's worth it or not but the smart thing to do is to explore it nonetheless if there's a window to do it and if the data backs it.

• Phoenix Coyotes --> Arizona Coyotes
• Winnipeg Jets were considering "Manitoba" or "Moose"
• New Orleans changing from Hornets to Pelicans

etc...

Contrarily to popular beliefs, leagues usually have last say on the name, approving it or not,  and I don't think this case would be any different in the context of a North American League.

An interesting read that you might appreciated instead of saying that there's no value to what I'm saying just because you disagree

Renaming a Franchise Means More Than Finding a New Mascot

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/sports/15rename.html

You might find my scenario unlikely (fair), but it's far from impossible.

Your example could happened but it's a RADICAL move to FORCE a team to change it's entire brand because YOU AS A LEAGUE do not like it (which is what you suggested). All the other teams name changes were voluntary and done because the moves were needed or actually desired by the parties involved

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, matty said:

Your example could happened but it's a RADICAL move to FORCE a team to change it's entire brand because YOU AS A LEAGUE do not like it (which is what you suggested). All the other teams name changes were voluntary and done because the moves were needed or actually desired by the parties involved 

I'm not disagreeing that it's radical but not unlikely to be brought up, that was the main point I was making and I think it goes much farther than the league simply "not liking the name"

[Winnipeg Fury]

 

Winnipeg Fury were the Canadian champs in 1992.  I was a season ticket holder (multiple).

But as much as I loved my Fury, I will be the first to admit it was a crap name.  Sounds like a community club rec team.  It doesn't get any more generic.  Frankly, it's embarrassing.  

I'm glad the new Winnipeg club is Valour.  It's original and it's a Winnipeg story.  It's Winnipeg's history and nobody else.  

In Ottawa's case, not only is it generic, it's not even original.  IMHO, I think Ottawa could do far better from a marketing standpoint, with a new name. I think Ottawa  and it's fans deserve better than a mindless, generic tots club name.

 

[Alex D]

Remember the time Kansas changed from the Wizards to Sporting and doubled their attendance? If a brand is crap then it doesn't matter how long its been in use. 

[matty]

3 minutes ago, Alex D said:

Remember the time Kansas changed from the Wizards to Sporting and doubled their attendance? If a brand is crap then it doesn't matter how long its been in use. 

The name change wasn't the why. MLS 2.0 started, the team was winning and they changed buildings. People actually complain about their name a bit.

[Alex D]

3 minutes ago, matty said:

The name change wasn't the why. MLS 2.0 started, the team was winning and they changed buildings. People actually complain about their name a bit.

I know i over simplified, a lot, but it still shows that rebranding didn't hurt them. What value does the Fury brand actually have?

[matty]

1 minute ago, Alex D said:

I know i over simplified, a lot, but it still shows that rebranding didn't hurt them. What value does the Fury brand actually have?

Probably something similarish (likely less) to what the Impact name had in Montreal. It also probably has more value to the Fury than FC Edmonton had

[Alex D]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

Probably something similarish (likely less) to what the Impact name had in Montreal. It also probably has more value to the Fury than FC Edmonton had

The Impact were drawing 12K and winning championships.

Maybe its my bias bit their name only stirs up thoughts of a soccer themed day care centre to me. 

[matty]

Just now, Alex D said:

The Impact were drawing 12K and winning championships.

Maybe its my bias bit their name only stirs up thoughts of a soccer themed day care centre to me. 

I did say Impact more so. But this Fury team hasn't been a low drawing chump and did win the NASL fall championship and the PDL and women's teams were a regular division champ. Those can't just be tossed.

I get disliking the name in soccer but it's mostly fine and we've what happens when everyone goes with a serious soccer name: you end up with MLS 3.0 and CPL using the same naming tropes. If the Fury wanna have a stupid name let em, don't force them to change it like Ansem suggested