Ottawa CPL Club

[Viruk42]

3 hours ago, Kent said:

I didn't click the link. I assume they just lazily did their predictions based on alphabetical order.

You are right that they went through each team in alphabetical order, but...

[Ottawafan74]

3 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Stop being an asshole.

I’m curious how you reconcile this loan from TFC to the CPL. 

[Alex D]

This is one single player, not a minor league affiliate. 

[Ottawafan74]

Floodgates are open, no turning back now. 

[Cheeta]

Good on Brennan for using what he has to get players, see how far that actually goes but it's got him one in the bag for now and it reads like he has an open mind for acquiring more.  However...

Still too many unknowns at this point into the league.  We don't even know what the salary caps is never mind how it is applied to players who're loaned in on a subsidy.  All we know is York has acquired a single player on a season long loan.  Hardly a trend. 

There's going to be a lot of cat and mouse for a while yet as it pertains to the evolution of rules within this league.  And that's probably as it should be.  You wanna win or no?

Can't wait to see some of the shit sides are going to try and pull to cheat the salary cap.  ?

    

 

[matty]

2 hours ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Floodgates are open, no turning back now. 

dude stop being dumb there's a difference between taking individual loans and actively being a development team for a team above you in the pyramid 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

There actually really isn't from being like the Fury, if the loans from one league to the other only ever go in one direction and the team(s) taking the loaned player(s) have separate ownership and their own technical staff(s). There is still a clear difference from the B team scenario though.

Edited March 8, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

53 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

There actually really isn't from being like the Fury, if the loans from one league to the other only ever go in one direction and the team(s) taking the loaned player(s) have separate ownership and their own technical staff(s). There is still a clear difference from the B team scenario though.

There is a huge difference. Unless any of Ottawa's loan agreements don't say anything about playing time required. I am assuming Ottawa has to play each TFC and Impact player a certain amount each year, which I understand happens in many loans.

But in Ottawa's case year after year many of their club places and playing time are being taken up by non club players. They are so busy developing other team's players they won't have time to develop their own. To many loans year after year from the same clubs backs Ottawa into a corner and can limit both their player's development and the club's development.

This is probably a huge reason why they dropped their academy. It wasn't worth it because these players won't get time on the first team anyways. They are required to play the loaned players instead of their own. I'm not saying there is anything "wrong" with their model but it is totally different than single loans. As well, it doesn't fit with the CPL's purpose as a league, so I understand why the CPL doesn't want it.

[matty]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

There actually really isn't from being like the Fury, if the loans from one league to the other only ever go in one direction and the team(s) taking the loaned player(s) have separate ownership and their own technical staff(s). There is still a clear difference from the B team scenario though.

i'm sorry but what? the fury have formal agreements in place to develop talent for montreal impact and appear ready to announce one with toronto fc. it isn't a traditional loan situation at all. there's a great deal more back and forth for the player possible between fury and montreal and montreal has more control over who goes.

the cpl loans do not appear to be part of a formal affiliation, instead they just appear to be loans. and regarding going "one direction", the league has kicked a ball yet why are you assuming this will be one way? i'll remind you the nasl loaned players to mls

unless a cpl team starts loading up on loans from a mls team and there's a ton of back and forth possible with the player, there is noticeably difference between these two situation.

Edited March 8, 2019 by matty

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ottawafan74 said:

I’m curious how you reconcile this loan from TFC to the CPL. 

There is nothing to reconcile. Here is what I said:

On 3/2/2019 at 10:22 PM, dsqpr said:

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on whether Canadian fans will support an MLS development league in Canada, masquerading as a Canadian league. I personally will not and I have been a football fan ever since I was about 6. Of course I may be the exception but somehow I doubt it.

Then some asshole comes along and tries to twist my words to imply that one player loan from TFC to CPL makes CPL an "MLS development league". He must think the people on here are stupid. He is wrong.

[Sébastien]

8 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

There is a huge difference. Unless any of Ottawa's loan agreements don't say anything about playing time required. I am assuming Ottawa has to play each TFC and Impact player a certain amount each year, which I understand happens in many loans.

But in Ottawa's case year after year many of their club places and playing time are being taken up by non club players. They are so busy developing other team's players they won't have time to develop their own. To many loans year after year from the same clubs backs Ottawa into a corner and can limit both their player's development and the club's development.

This is probably a huge reason why they dropped their academy. It wasn't worth it because these players won't get time on the first team anyways. They are required to play the loaned players instead of their own. I'm not saying there is anything "wrong" with their model but it is totally different than single loans. As well, it doesn't fit with the CPL's purpose as a league, so I understand why the CPL doesn't want it.

Though I am irritated at the number of loans the Fury is picking up, I believe their affiliation (at least with Montreal) clearly indicated no such restrictions (must play X minutes or wtv). And having watched almost all their homes games last season, I never got the impression that an Impact player was on the pitch without having earned his presence.

Hell, Callum Irving was the starting keeper last season, until a horrid start that gave Crépeau an opportunity, of which he never let go.

[dyslexic nam]

Higuain is on loan to Chelsea from Juventus.  I guess that must make EPL a development league for Serie A.

OR, an isolated player loan isn't a big deal and it is only structured affiliate agreements that are the issue.

[Sébastien]

12 hours ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Floodgates are open, no turning back now. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Sébastien

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

20 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Though I am irritated at the number of loans the Fury is picking up, I believe their affiliation (at least with Montreal) clearly indicated no such restrictions (must play X minutes or wtv). And having watched almost all their homes games last season, I never got the impression that an Impact player was on the pitch without having earned his presence.

Hell, Callum Irving was the starting keeper last season, until a horrid start that gave Crépeau an opportunity, of which he never let go.

That's interesting. I don't understand Montreal's thinking on that. Obviously their focus is not development, rather freeing roster spots.

[Sébastien]

Just now, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

That's interesting. I don't understand Montreal's thinking on that. Obviously their focus is not development, rather freeing roster spots.

Maybe. Or since they got rid of their own USL/reserve team, maybe they figure that some minutes are better than no minutes. Or a combination of both.

Quote from Dalglish in 2016: “There will be some players from Montreal Impact, but there’s no requirement to play them, so each player that comes from Montreal Impact has to earn their minutes on the field,” 

That being said, I have not yet heard anything as clear stated about the "affiliation" with TFC. Hell, I'm not even sure it's a formal affiliation yet, even though we may end up having more TFC players on our club that IMFC.

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Higuain is on loan to Chelsea from Juventus.  I guess that must make EPL a development league for Serie A.

OR, an isolated player loan isn't a big deal and it is only structured affiliate agreements that are the issue.

Of course your right, but even with multiple loans.

Look, Girona receives a few players from Man City because they are part of the same ownership group, though there are different minority partners involved. But Girona plays in a league arguably better or at least par with EPL. And they just beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu. So even with three guys, they are not in a subservient mode. Most probably their leading players, like Stuani, would score 20+ goals at Man City.

They have three Man City players who are not the team's leaders, Aleix Garcia, Douglas Luiz and Patrick Roberts, all young, not all starters. Girona is not a development team for Man City, even with three of their players. Now if they had much more, and they represented the core of the team, we'd be talking about something else (Fury).

[Copes]

26 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Higuain is on loan to Chelsea from Juventus.  I guess that must make EPL a development league for Serie A.

OR, an isolated player loan isn't a big deal and it is only structured affiliate agreements that are the issue.

YOU STOP WITH THOSE REASONABLE OPINIONS RIGHT THIS MOMENT SIR!

[Ottawafan74]

9 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

There is a huge difference. Unless any of Ottawa's loan agreements don't say anything about playing time required. I am assuming Ottawa has to play each TFC and Impact player a certain amount each year, which I understand happens in many loans.

But in Ottawa's case year after year many of their club places and playing time are being taken up by non club players. They are so busy developing other team's players they won't have time to develop their own. To many loans year after year from the same clubs backs Ottawa into a corner and can limit both their player's development and the club's development.

This is probably a huge reason why they dropped their academy. It wasn't worth it because these players won't get time on the first team anyways. They are required to play the loaned players instead of their own. I'm not saying there is anything "wrong" with their model but it is totally different than single loans. As well, it doesn't fit with the CPL's purpose as a league, so I understand why the CPL doesn't want it.

They dropped their academy because they were getting at best the 20-25th best player in the city. And then the drop off was significant from there. 

[Ottawafan74]

8 hours ago, dsqpr said:

There is nothing to reconcile. Here is what I said:

Then some asshole comes along and tries to twist my words to imply that one player loan from TFC to CPL makes CPL an "MLS development league". He must think the people on here are stupid. He is wrong.

Why the anger?  Relax, it’s a message board for Canadian soccer fans. 

All I’m saying is take the best players you can. But if you want to rip the Fury for taking better players from a higher league, then don’t ignore it when it happens in the CPL. 

[Ottawafan74]

46 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

Though I am irritated at the number of loans the Fury is picking up, I believe their affiliation (at least with Montreal) clearly indicated no such restrictions (must play X minutes or wtv). And having watched almost all their homes games last season, I never got the impression that an Impact player was on the pitch without having earned his presence.

Hell, Callum Irving was the starting keeper last season, until a horrid start that gave Crépeau an opportunity, of which he never let go.

It was my understanding the Fury had no restrictions placed in them from Impact about playing time. Best man gets the spot. 

[Ottawafan74]

11 hours ago, matty said:

dude stop being dumb there's a difference between taking individual loans and actively being a development team for a team above you in the pyramid 

Relax it’s a joke kid. 

[BrennanFan]

26 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

They dropped their academy because they were getting at best the 20-25th best player in the city. And then the drop off was significant from there. 

Was this not due to a backlash from the community clubs bc the Fury tried to poach all their best players (like what tfc academy did in the gta)? 

The Fury could have started their own academy at U8 and built up from there, you know, actually develop their own players and add to the pool.

Perhaps this is another reason the Fury should cease to exist so a new CPL club with a fresh start can work with the clubs to create an actual pyramid via financial incentives and solidarity agreements following player sales in place from day one.

CPL is not shy about being a selling league, the Fury is the absolute opposite.  

[matty]

44 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Relax it’s a joke kid. 

i think my comment was pretty relaxed. 9/10 when you tell someone to stop "being dumb" and you're over the age of 15, you're saying it in a chillish ugh tone

[Ottawafan74]

3 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Was this not due to a backlash from the community clubs bc the Fury tried to poach all their best players (like what tfc academy did in the gta)? 

The Fury could have started their own academy at U8 and built up from there, you know, actually develop their own players and add to the pool.

Perhaps this is another reason the Fury should cease to exist so a new CPL club with a fresh start can work with the clubs to create an actual pyramid via financial incentives and solidarity agreements following player sales in place from day one.

CPL is not shy about being a selling league, the Fury is the absolute opposite.  

Fury youth started out as the old EODSA system where they would take the u13’s from the region to to the provincial ID camps. The district assured the clubs they had no interest in creating their own teams. But that was the goal. When they found out they couldn’t enter teams in the local league they created their own league, the ERSL. Then they found out they had to go through promotions, starting 3 levels below the ERSL. So they went SYL. Fury coaches would then show up to games in the area to poach top talent. At that point there was no real top team. 

When the men’s team came about they wanted to start up a youth system. New ownership and new coaches who ( outside of Pugh ) had no link to the past. Problem was a few local clubs had upped their level and were miles ahead of what the Fury could offer. As such parents and kids had zero interest in moving over. The Fury needed the local clubs more than they needed them. Add in what the EODSA and the old Fury youth teams pulled and you see why the clubs wanted nothing to do with them. 

Any new CPL squad will face the same sentiment; local clubs are more interested in protecting their turf than doing what’s best for the game in Canada. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Ottawafan74

[dyslexic nam]

15 minutes ago, Ottawafan74 said:

Fury youth started out as the old EODSA system where they would take the u13’s from the region to to the provincial ID camps. The district assured the clubs they had no interest in creating their own teams. But that was the goal. When they found out they couldn’t enter teams in the local league they created their own league, the ERSL. Then they found out they had to go through promotions, starting 3 levels below the ERSL. So they went SYL. Fury coaches would then show up to games in the area to poach top talent. At that point there was no real top team. 

When the men’s team came about they wanted to start up a youth system. New ownership and new coaches who ( outside of Pugh ) had no link to the past. Problem was a few local clubs had upped their level and were miles ahead of what the Fury could offer. As such parents and clubs had zero interest in moving over. The Fury needed the local clubs more than they needed them. Add in what the EODSA and the old Fury youth teams pulled and you see why the clubs wanted nothing to do with them. 

Any new CPL squad will face the same sentiment; local clubs are more interested in protecting their turf than doing what’s best for the game in Canada. 

That may be true in Ontario, but I am not sure it is as universal as you claim.  NS Soccer clearly has an interest in supporting the Wanderers given the scheduling concession made to avoid conflicts.  In PEI, the clubs absolutely try to move elite players into the higher tiers of competitive footy (the Whitecaps are doing some work in player development here and one or two kids have gone off to train in their system).  It may be a product of scope and scale, but I suspect there are lots of local clubs that don't fit the fiefdom model you articulate.