CPL new teams speculation

[youllneverwalkalone]

There was a youth coach who was documented being let go from Notts County or MK Dons for throwing a banana at a black player. Caps hired him anyway. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theprovince.com/sports/soccer/mls/vancouver-whitecaps/whitecaps-give-second-chance-to-youth-coach-despite-racism-allegations/amp

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vpd-aware-of-bullying-abuse-allegations-against-former-whitecaps-coach-1.4384242

[youllneverwalkalone]

Ok. Great. I'm not a member of the Southsiders calling out Waston or anything crazy like that. Just pointing out two incidents that fans didn't like, sufficiently so that many did not renew season tickets. I'm guessing there are about 6k season ticket holders available looking for a new option but, and here's my point, they are not coming from or going to Langley.

[DrummingInMySleep]

There is always a lot of people traveling in to BC Place from the other side of the infamous bridges so one can expect that there are a decent amount of people who would be happy to stay outside the city for their pro footy experience. 
 

I think a more key issue is game day experience and especially what supporter culture there will be on the ground. Much like The Lake Side Buoys were integral to PFC’s launch in a BC suburb, activating a group like The Swangardians might be the way home. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

@youllneverwalkalone is right that the ideal location would slightly overlap with the Whitecaps most convenient area of influence. It would be better to partially compete than to overly distance the CPL team in the Lower Mainlaind. North Surrey near a Skytrain option would be okay; upgrading in New Westminster too.

But even better would be to make the decision to eliminate the track at Swangard, keep the main stand, and add on that. I think Swangard is listed at over 5500 capacity, which must be almost all that main stand. It has a tradition, there are transit options, and you are getting a bit into the Whitecaps face that way. I have never understood how so many successive city halls of Burnaby have not been able to get past the original paradigm of Swangard. 

This is from someone who ran high school track meets there--and no, I am not at all nostaligic about that track (how I feel about Empire Stadium is different).

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Surrey was where "Port City" were supposed to play, but it didn't work out. A BC Lions training facility beside the Skytrain is the rumoured preferred location for a pop-up but appears to not be possible for whatever reason.

Meanwhile, Langley is the less desirable but readily available plan B location. If something is going to happen in the short to medium term it will probably be there. If people in lower mainland BC want a CanPL team showing interest in this FCE game and launching a Fraser valley fan group would be sensible things to do.

[youllneverwalkalone]

The new Burnaby mayor is pro sports facilities. They are building two ice rinks by our house. The track would be relatively easy to relocate. 

[RS]

9 hours ago, Lofty said:

Edit: Apologies. I did not read the post carefully enough before replying.

It may be time to log off for a while. Jesus. 

[SthMelbRed]

6 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

@youllneverwalkalone is right that the ideal location would slightly overlap with the Whitecaps most convenient area of influence. It would be better to partially compete than to overly distance the CPL team in the Lower Mainlaind. North Surrey near a Skytrain option would be okay; upgrading in New Westminster too.

But even better would be to make the decision to eliminate the track at Swangard, keep the main stand, and add on that. I think Swangard is listed at over 5500 capacity, which must be almost all that main stand. It has a tradition, there are transit options, and you are getting a bit into the Whitecaps face that way. I have never understood how so many successive city halls of Burnaby have not been able to get past the original paradigm of Swangard. 

This is from someone who ran high school track meets there--and no, I am not at all nostaligic about that track (how I feel about Empire Stadium is different).

What exactly do you think would be in it for the City of Burnaby to make them consider turning over Swangard to a private club at the expense of every school and community club in the municipality? Swangard on a summer's evening is a fantastic place to watch football as it is, and that includes sitting in the main stand.

If you want to increase the capacity of the stadium, the way forward would be the addition of additional permanent seats on the eastern side of the stadium, which would require that the limited surface parking on that side go away. I suppose that they could factor underground parking in any plans for a new east stand.

[SpursFlu]

Burnaby is Vancouver. I think Swangard is amazing but If your an investor why would you put a team right on top of the Whitecaps just to appeal to the too cool for mainstream crowd? You have a million plus people south of the Fraser, crazy growth, people with money in their pockets, next to zero competition for people's entertainment dollar and municipalities who are willing to work with people to make things happen. Same reasons Pacific are in Langford, look what they've made happen in such a short time frame. None of that would happen in Victoria 

Edited March 8, 2020 by SpursFlu

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

What exactly do you think would be in it for the City of Burnaby to make them consider turning over Swangard to a private club at the expense of every school and community club in the municipality? Swangard on a summer's evening is a fantastic place to watch football as it is, and that includes sitting in the main stand.

If you want to increase the capacity of the stadium, the way forward would be the addition of additional permanent seats on the eastern side of the stadium, which would require that the limited surface parking on that side go away. I suppose that they could factor underground parking in any plans for a new east stand.

Name one single stadium where pro soccer is played in Canada that has been "turned over to a private club"?

You can't of course, because your arguments are tendentious.

Swangard adapted without a track would work better for Burnaby, for these reasons.

-without a track it would work for spectator sports other than athletics. It would be a good venue for soccer, for rugby, and youth as well. Burnaby would draw revenue from this, in terms of rentals and concessions, that could be used to fund other investments in sports.

-in contrast, it is not a good venue to watch soccer from the main stand with that track. It is cold and too distant, you merely watch and do not feel part of the action. The difference between the experience in the Southside, with those miserly stands they gave us, was enormous: we were on top of the action. Nor does your far side solution work, as it would mean putting a stand a long ways away, and making an unnecessary investment in construction. The current stand at 5500 capacity is almost enough for CPL.

-they have other tracks in Burnaby and in fact Swangard is not even amongst public use running tracks. They have Confederation Park, Mercer, Burnaby North Secondary, and then the main BC Athletics facility. The only track use they have at Swangard has limited spectator interest, it's high school mostly. Apart from that, it does not even have permanent field event facilities for athletics, it is poorly prepared as is: it is still configured like a track and field faciity from 1969.

-it is in a bad location for kids. Why have a main track facility of a large municipality at the extreme end of that city, bordering a neighbouring town? Burnaby kids deserve a track that is central, not peripheral. While that location is fairly central for a greater Vancouver audience.

All Burnaby city council needs is a bit of vision, which is what we have seen in virtually every case where the CPL is working: municipal enthusiasm and support behind the project. Lack of council support and vision is also a key reason why CPL is stalling or looks to struggle in other cities.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[Ansem]

I dont know...

I think the league shouldn't deviate from it's strategy to occupy all the markets that dont have football.

I think that a presence in the 3 cities main suburbs is good enough for CPL 1.0. Surrounding them effectively slow the growth they would encounter outside their city if CPL wasn't around

Toronto- York & Mississauga 

Vancouver- Fraser Valley 

Montreal-Laval

The big 3 cities can support more than one club and CPL will get in one way or another. Once the sanctioning is cleared out after 2026 World Cup, we'll have a better idea then.

For Fraser Valley, Surrey would be the best but if Langley makes a club happen faster, why not?

Also, nothing prevents a relocation from Langley to Surrey in the future.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Ansem

[Unnamed Trialist]

26 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Burnaby is Vancouver. I think Swangard is amazing but If your an investor why would you put a team right on top of the Whitecaps just to appeal to the too cool for mainstream crowd? You have a million plus people south of the Fraser, crazy growth, people with money in their pockets, next to zero competition for people's entertainment dollar and municipalities who are willing to work with people to make things happen. Same reasons Pacific are in Langford, look what they've made happen in such a short time frame. None of that would happen in Victoria 

Pacific in Langford actually creates huge headaches, it is not at all ideal. It is due to one factor: the mayor is a maverick who does things his own way, rubs his fellow Greater Victoria mayors the wrong way, and wanted to have this facility for personal and municipal prestige. He made it available, as he does with Rugby Canada. So those are factors that counter the fact that on paper it is amongst the worst locations in Greater Victoria I could think of.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[nolando]

2 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

The new Burnaby mayor is pro sports facilities. They are building two ice rinks by our house. The track would be relatively easy to relocate. 

I agree, he attended our club's (Cliff Avenue) year end dinner and I can assure you this is part of his mandate. Burnaby North is being rebuilt and we are working hard through petitions to try and get another couple of artificial turf fields to replace the existing gravel fields.

[SpursFlu]

10 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Pacific in Langford actually creates huge headaches, it is not at all ideal. It is due to one factor: the mayor is a maverick who does things his own way, rubs his fellow Greater Victoria mayors the wrong way, and wanted to have this facility for personal and municipal prestige. He made it available, as he does with Rugby Canada. So those are factors that counter the fact that on paper it is amongst the worst locations in Greater Victoria I could think of.

We'll that Maverick is doing shit like get people a football club. It may not be convenient for the I live downtown and take the bus everywhere crowd but in a few weeks I'll be watching Canada play In Langford and that's awesome 

[Unnamed Trialist]

If you draw a radius from Swangard, say 12 km, that includes all of Burnaby, most of Vancouver including all the West End, most of North Vancouver, most of Richmond, all of New West, a slice of north Surrey, part of Coquitlam and Port Moody. 

I would argue that no other location in the Lower Mainland gives you that population and reach at 8 miles distance. That means at less than a half hour drive, traffic notwithstanding.

Edit: I'm a spoiled brat who lives walking distance to BC Place when in town, but I never had a problem doing 9 k to Swangard or 8k to see Whitecaps II at UBC.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

We'll that Maverick is doing **** like get people a football club. It may not be convenient for the I live downtown and take the bus everywhere crowd but in a few weeks I'll be watching Canada play In Langford and that's awesome 

Geez, with that censored word I missed the full gist

No, sure, the point is we need politicans like this, enthusiastic about what serves their residents and not closed minded. That includes parks, cultural facilities, transit, safety, proper urban planning. 

The reason they never considered Victoria was because the then and current mayor was too far away from the mindset. I suspect they also found that in Surrey the politicals lacked the vision as well (some say that, further to that, they were pressured by Whitecaps to not support the initiative).

[Ansem]

Just now, SpursFlu said:

We'll that Maverick is doing **** like get people a football club. It may not be convenient for the I live downtown and take the bus everywhere crowd but in a few weeks I'll be watching Canada play In Langford and that's awesome 

Keep in mind that whenever that lease deal is up, expect Pacific to court Victoria.

Sometimes, a concrete idea is more convincing than an abstract idea. Down the road, with different leadership, a mayor in Victoria might want that event in their downtown matches with some real estate project

Same could happen for Fraser Valley

[narduch]

27 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Name one single stadium where pro soccer is played in Canada that has been "turned over to a private club"?

BMO Field?

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Keep in mind that whenever that lease deal is up, expect Pacific to court Victoria.

Sometimes, a concrete idea is more convincing than an abstract idea. Down the road, with different leadership, a mayor in Victoria might want that event in their downtown matches with some real estate project

Same could happen for Fraser Valley

If they remove the hydro pole, I think the lease will automatically be 99 years 😂

Edited March 8, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

BMO Field?

Argos, Canada's national soccer teams, rugby. It is managed by MLSE, who could do what they want with it, including concerts if they cared to.

[narduch]

Just now, Unnamed Trialist said:

Argos, Canada's national soccer teams, rugby. It is managed by MLSE, who could do what they want with it, including concerts if they cared to.

But it originally had a community use component. MLSE renegotiated the deal when they switched from artificial turf to grass.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

20 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

We'll that Maverick is doing **** like get people a football club. It may not be convenient for the I live downtown and take the bus everywhere crowd but in a few weeks I'll be watching Canada play In Langford and that's awesome 

I strongly suspect that if the City of Langford hadn't stepped in to provide the "Port City" group with a place to play at a point when FCE's participation was still no sure thing that the league might not have been able to achieve a 2019 launch. The Langford scenario was less than ideal, but less than ideal is a lot better than not at all.

[youllneverwalkalone]

2 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I strongly suspect that if the City of Langford hadn't stepped in to provide the "Port City" group with a place to play at a point when FCE's participation was still no sure thing that the league might not have been able to achieve a 2019 launch. The Langford scenario was less than ideal, but less than ideal is a lot better than not at all.

Agreed, but now that we're here let's not reproduce a less than ideal scenario in Langley. Look at what's working in Halifax and try to replicate it.

[Aird25]

In the long run Westhills might end up being a decent location the way the westshore is growing. It’s easy to access from up island as well