Floro Must Go

[Floortom]

Is there not a Manager out there with strong Central American success and experience?

[BigMo]

Say what you want about Stephen Hart, his Canadian teams were the only ones I've watched which showed any element of technical aptitude.Now he's in the Hex after a few impressive GC runs. Funny how things work.

[gator]

2 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Is there not a Manager out there with strong Central American success and experience?

Could we get Bob Bradley from Le Havre?

[apbsmith]

39 minutes ago, gator said:

Could we get Bob Bradley from Le Havre?

Wow that would be interesting.   He may actually consider it with his son at TFC and returning back to North America.

He did great with Egypt last cycle just unfortunate that they got drawn in a head to head vs Ghana and clearly outclassed. Any other draw and Egypt would have had a real good chance at making the WC.

Also, there would definitely not be a language barrier.

Here is a really good read if you have the time on Bob Bradley.

http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=bob-bradley

[BigMo]

Just now, apbsmith said:

Wow that would be interesting.   He may actually consider it with his son at TFC and returning back to North America.

He did great with Egypt last cycle just unfortunate that they got drawn in a head to head vs Ghana and clearly outclassed. Any other draw and Egypt would have had a real good chance at making the WC.

Also, there would definitely not be a language barrier.

Here is a really good read if you have the time on Bob Bradley.

http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=bob-bradley

Their result in Accra was equivalent to our defeat to Honduras last cycle but it overshadowed the great work he did otherwise. He broke through tons of young Egyptian talent on the NT, playing in Europe now. He'd be a great choice if interested.

[apbsmith]

13 minutes ago, BigMo said:

Their result in Accra was equivalent to our defeat to Honduras last cycle but it overshadowed the great work he did otherwise. He broke through tons of young Egyptian talent on the NT, playing in Europe now. He'd be a great choice if interested.

99% agree. The defeat itself was horrible, however I strongly feel Ghana are the powerhouses of Africa, the Egyptians really needed a miracle in that head2head matchup. The Egyptians still were fighting after giving up two quick goals (1 an own goal) and brought one back late in the first half making it 2-1 (6-1 final score).  Our 8-1 defeat to Honduras 4 years was not to the #1 concacaf team and well, we looked.......from the start after 5 mins in.

That is why 99% agree, scoreline perspective essentially the same.

Gator should e-mail the CSA :), I hope someone reads these boards lol.  

 

[matty]

14 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

Wow that would be interesting.   He may actually consider it with his son at TFC and returning back to North America.

He did great with Egypt last cycle just unfortunate that they got drawn in a head to head vs Ghana and clearly outclassed. Any other draw and Egypt would have had a real good chance at making the WC.

Also, there would definitely not be a language barrier.

Here is a really good read if you have the time on Bob Bradley.

http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=bob-bradley

You forgot to mention how he took the budget team Stabaek, that most thought were going to be relegated, to Europa and under him Le Harve went from 15th in the table to a team that missed promotion by a goal.

[king1010]

2 hours ago, rightback said:

That doesn't sound likely and a quick glance at Wikipedia reveals this statement to be false. Why do you keep repeating it?

 Most coach's in every sport end up getting fired. A few resign. 

Below are a few examples from the top 20 ranked teams. 

Argentina Maradona let go after dissapointing 2010 world cup

Argentina Batista let go after disappointing 2011 Copa

Belgium Wilmots fired after disappointing Euro 2016

Portugual Fires Bento in the middle of Euro 2016 WCQ which they want on to win

Brazil fires Dunga after failing to advance from the 2016 Copa

Turkey sacks Avci during 2014 WCQ

[apbsmith]

2 minutes ago, matty said:

You forgot to mention how he took the budget team Stabaek, that most thought were going to be relegated, to Europa and under him Le Harve went from 15th in the table to a team that missed promotion by a goal.

Yes, I was referring to country but very true.

Would def be an upgrade over Floro, in my humble opinion.

[nolbertos]

2 hours ago, rightback said:

That doesn't sound likely and a quick glance at Wikipedia reveals this statement to be false. Why do you keep repeating it?

Can't tell if you don't follow International futbol or new to the sport. Every country around the world has fired their coaches after bad performances or after a WCQ cycle.  They only stay if they exceeded the goals set out.  So far Benito has failed all goals set out from him.  Failed to get out of the Gold Cup group stage in a very easy group, IMO. Failed to qualify to the Copa America Centenario. Failed to make the Hex.  Failed to qualify to the Olympics.  So far 0-4.  He has brought some fence sitters to commit to Canada, but who knows if they'll come back after Floro is gone.  I agree that a coach with a good pedigree, preferably someone that has CONCACAF, CONMEBOL experience should be who the CSA should pursue.  No more people across the pond who have no idea of the rigours of playing down south.

[mpg_29]

I'd like to someone similar to Herdman who can adequately judge players ability at early age and can integrate them into the senior team earlier so there is an nice mix of veteran and young.  Other than Larin and Piette this current roster is on the older side.

[GimliJetsMan]

This is a results oriented business.

Point to a result that he has provided.

If we keep him, we are committing to another cycle with him, no way we should change in the middle of one.

[jpg75]

Honduras made the 2010WC, Rueda left because they wouldn't pay him more. They qualified in 2014 under Luis Fernando Suarez, let him go. The current coach Pinto, got Costa Rica to the knockout rounds in 2014 and they let him walk....our biggest rivals have no problems letting quality managers go because they know continuity is with the players and not the coach.

[Unnamed Trialist]

35 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

99% agree. The defeat itself was horrible, however I strongly feel Ghana are the powerhouses of Africa, the Egyptians really needed a miracle in that head2head matchup. The Egyptians still were fighting after giving up two quick goals (1 an own goal) and brought one back late in the first half making it 2-1 (6-1 final score).  Our 8-1 defeat to Honduras 4 years was not to the #1 concacaf team and well, we looked.......from the start after 5 mins in.

That is why 99% agree, scoreline perspective essentially the same.

Gator should e-mail the CSA :), I hope someone reads these boards lol.  

 

I went and looked and was shocked to see Egypt has only qualified for two WCs, the first was basically a give-away classification as few other African nations were up to this early on. 

In fact, if you look at Africa, some amazing football nations have basically a similar track record as us, one qualification, no getting past the first round or not much more. Ivory Coast has gone once, Senegal as well I think. Only Cameroon and Nigeria have any continuity, the rest don't. They must feel even more frustrated than we do as they have way deeper squads, in solid pro clubs. What we say about the WC could be said by about a dozen African nations.

And a whole bunch of countries you figure would be fairly strong have never been to a WC. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Honduras made the 2010WC, Rueda left because they wouldn't pay him more. They qualified in 2014 under Luis Fernando Suarez, let him go. The current coach Pinto, got Costa Rica to the knockout rounds in 2014 and they let him walk....our biggest rivals have no problems letting quality managers go because they know continuity is with the players and not the coach.

Right now, face it, Honduras is the most up and coming football nation in our region. I don't know how they do this, but they have had a very solid run for almost a decade, two WCs and an Olympic bronze medal match, meaning there's a future there. Have to admire them.

[dyslexic nam]

25 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

...Benito has failed all goals set out from him.  Failed to get out of the Gold Cup group stage in a very easy group, IMO. Failed to qualify to the Copa America Centenario. Failed to make the Hex.  Failed to qualify to the Olympics.  So far 0-4. 

At the end of the day, this is what settles the issue for me. 

Its not like he lost a single game, or made one bad substitution.  It is that he has failed to achieve a single objective we can evaluate.  And these aren't unattainable objectives - they are fairly modest, incremental improvements over past results. 

 

[Bison44]

I was excited when Floro was hired and hoped he would lead CMNT onwards and upwards.  But we should have known that he was probably here for 1 cycle.  Even successful coaches get dumped after a cycle, and although I personally think things are getting better, not making the Hex cant be viewed as "mission accomplished" by the CSA.  But this is where alot of us realistically thought we would end up.  So I imagine he is gone in the next few weeks (no hard feelings) and the search for his replacement is probably underway now.  Hopefully we can get someone that speaks english and can continue any momentum the team has built up (even with not making the hex).  Maybe DeVos can get his 2 cents in and make sure we at least get someone that can squeeze a bit more out of our player pool.  

[BigMo]

12 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I went and looked and was shocked to see Egypt has only qualified for two WCs, the first was basically a give-away classification as few other African nations were up to this early on. 

In fact, if you look at Africa, some amazing football nations have basically a similar track record as us, one qualification, no getting past the first round or not much more. Ivory Coast has gone once, Senegal as well I think. Only Cameroon and Nigeria have any continuity, the rest don't. They must feel even more frustrated than we do as they have way deeper squads, in solid pro clubs. What we say about the WC could be said by about a dozen African nations.

And a whole bunch of countries you figure would be fairly strong have never been to a WC. 

Egypt has missed out on the WC on the last day of qualifying, for pretty much every cycle since 1990. Many people do not watch/could care less about African football but as a long-time watcher, I believe CAF WCQ  and AFCON qualifiers are amongst the most difficult in the world. Just see how many former AFCON winners have failed to return the tournament this year.

 

Minor correction though, Cote D'Ivoire has made the World Cup three times (2006,2010,2014). 

[gator]

18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I went and looked and was shocked to see Egypt has only qualified for two WCs, the first was basically a give-away classification as few other African nations were up to this early on. 

In fact, if you look at Africa, some amazing football nations have basically a similar track record as us, one qualification, no getting past the first round or not much more. Ivory Coast has gone once, Senegal as well I think. Only Cameroon and Nigeria have any continuity, the rest don't. They must feel even more frustrated than we do as they have way deeper squads, in solid pro clubs. What we say about the WC could be said by about a dozen African nations.

And a whole bunch of countries you figure would be fairly strong have never been to a WC. 

I'm not sure if this makes me feel any better after yet another failure at qualification or not but it is a very valid point, it is not easy getting to the World Cup! After attending matches and watching us qualify in 86 I figured it would be the norm for us to be there, that hasn't worked out so well!

[shermanator]

Okay, who hacked Floro's Wikipedia page?

 

[GimliJetsMan]

To me there's no "yeah but" in regards to floro.

We didn't make it to the copa (YEAH BUT we can still have some good gold cup showings)

We didn't have any good gold cup showings (YEAH BUT we can still make the hex)

We didn't make it to the hex (YEAH BUT... oh.... crap...)

[dyslexic nam]

27 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Okay, who hacked Floro's Wikipedia page?

 

It is fixed now, but that is awesome.

[rightback]

33 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

Can't tell if you don't follow International futbol or new to the sport. Every country around the world has fired their coaches after bad performances or after a WCQ cycle.  They only stay if they exceeded the goals set out.  So far Benito has failed all goals set out from him.  Failed to get out of the Gold Cup group stage in a very easy group, IMO. Failed to qualify to the Copa America Centenario. Failed to make the Hex.  Failed to qualify to the Olympics.  So far 0-4.  He has brought some fence sitters to commit to Canada, but who knows if they'll come back after Floro is gone.  I agree that a coach with a good pedigree, preferably someone that has CONCACAF, CONMEBOL experience should be who the CSA should pursue.  No more people across the pond who have no idea of the rigours of playing down south.

If you said "Some countries around the world have...", that would be one thing but your statement that "Every country around the world has fired their coaches after bad performances or after a WCQ cycle" is demonstrably incorrect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_national_football_team_managers - sort it by time of manager.

Impatience with managers has increased over time in Europe and South America since I started playing and following the sport in the 70's but whether this impatience correlates with better results, I have no idea...it's the fashion. Nevertheless, Roy Hodgson was still manager after an utter disaster in Brazil...how does that square with your statement?

The list of goals above was your list, so what? I don't know if you follow international football or are new to the sport, but goals and expectations can take many forms. What was the state of the team after the 8-1 loss? What was the national team record in the year following? Has the team improved since then? Are we playing a style of soccer more likely to achieve results? What were the factors in our results, i.e. our player pool or the level of the competition we faced. By your logic, you'd fire a coach, no matter how excellent, solely based on the win-loss column which seems counter-productive to me.

You have many legitimate arguments for firing Floro and, as long the replacement is better, I'm OK with that, but don't go around asserting something as fact when it's not.

 

[BigMo]

10 minutes ago, rightback said:

If you said "Some countries around the world have...", that would be one thing but your statement that "Every country around the world has fired their coaches after bad performances or after a WCQ cycle" is demonstrably incorrect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_national_football_team_managers - sort it by time of manager.

Impatience with managers has increased over time in Europe and South America since I started playing and following the sport in the 70's but whether this impatience correlates with better results, I have no idea...it's the fashion. Nevertheless, Roy Hodgson was still manager after an utter disaster in Brazil...how does that square with your statement?

The list of goals above was your list, so what? I don't know if you follow international football or are new to the sport, but goals and expectations can take many forms. What was the state of the team after the 8-1 loss? What was the national team record in the year following? Has the team improved since then? Are we playing a style of soccer more likely to achieve results? What were the factors in our results, i.e. our player pool or the level of the competition we faced. By your logic, you'd fire a coach, no matter how excellent, solely based on the win-loss column which seems counter-productive to me.

You have many legitimate arguments for firing Floro and, as long the replacement is better, I'm OK with that, but don't go around asserting something as fact when it's not.

 

The wikipedia list you've linked has not been updated for sometime. Looks like it dates back to 2012. Just from a quick glance Algeria, CIV,Ghana, and Nigeria no longer have the managers listed. In fact in Nigeria's case it's listing a manager who has since passed away (RIP Stephen Keshi). Most African FA's aren't exactly models, but in terms of managerial terms, they change managers quite often. This list helps prove that.

[rightback]

12 minutes ago, BigMo said:

The wikipedia list you've linked has not been updated for sometime. Looks like it dates back to 2012. Just from a quick glance Algeria, CIV,Ghana, and Nigeria no longer have the managers listed. In fact in Nigeria's case it's listing a manager who has since passed away (RIP Stephen Keshi). Most African FA's aren't exactly models, but in terms of managerial terms, they change managers quite often. This list helps prove that.

Shit, you're right. You'd think they'd link that page back to the individual team pages so it would be up to date. 

All right, I found one! Koldo has been coach of Andorra for 6 years! There must be some more, anyway.