Floro Must Go

[MtlMario]

I think going with a foreign coach is a short term solution to a long term problem (I've been supporting Cdn soccer since the early 80's,so I had my share of ups and downs(mostly). A foreign will come in with the aim of getting to the Hex in order to keep his job ($$$), he won't be too worried about younger players deciding to play for us or other countries because he knows that he won't be around when those players could help us. That's why hiring someone like Marc Dos Santos(always a dream of his to coach Canada)or M.findlay and  give him a long term contract(6 yrs) to grow the team with players like Tomori(maybe), Doughty, Zanatta, Davies,Hamilton and a few more. Keep current players like Hoilett, Airfield,Larin,Aird,Adekugbe,Henry and have the team play more friendlies in Central America(instead of Europe) to get them used to playing in those conditions( I'm tired of hearing how hard it is to play there).Don't you think a team like this would look pretty sweet 5-6 years from now.I've waited 40 years,I could wait a few more.P.S.Cap tie as many as possible in the mean time(gold Cup). That's it. I had to put in my 2 cents.

[masster]

Not surprisingly, Ricketts seems to have been a big fan of Floro:
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/after-another-world-cup-exit--benito-floro-era-appears-over-for-canada-123933158.html

[Bertuzzi44]

At very least, Floro Jr. should be vanquished 

[masster]

Some interesting quotes from Ledgerwood on Floro. Sounds like he saw some positives, but is on the fence.
http://the11.ca/ledgerwood-what-floro-has-taught-canadian-players-will-help-team-in-the-long-run/

[toontownman]

33 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

At very least, Floro Jr. should be vanquished 

Like a poor movie plot.. the CSA Mafia punishing the lackey for not fulfilling his duties by killing his first born as a lesson.

"This is to make you sure that we are serious Benito.. no second chances..

                       

 

                 ...we would like to add we are sorry for the inconvenience and we have sent flowers and a fruit basket to Mrs Floro..eh". 

[finchster]

2 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Jesus Christ himself could not get this team to Qatar. We need PLAYERS! Our main challenge is player development, not coaching.

That comes down to having more pro-clubs, then we can complain about player development.

The biggest problem has been Unattached FC. With Edmonton and Ottawa (unfortunately seems to want to play in USL), guys like Ledgerwood, De jong, and  De Guzman who fell out of Europe and would've been on Unattached FC, had a place to play during qualification. We cannot complain about player development until we have professional clubs, but professional clubs will help in the short term of player retention. I'd figure these players may have simply retired if they had no where to play.

[king1010]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just shows how little you know about refs and reffing in general. Or just shows how your agenda is so one-sided you'll even argue it was Benito's fault your cereal was soggy this morning. 

Floro was a huge influence on positive reffing IMO.

Influence on reffing establishment is essential as it makes an official think twice. Home influence is one factor, the pressure of the institution naming you to ref as well, first your association that nominates you, then the Confederation that chooses you. Both being very political decisions. Any ref getting to international level has moved politically through the system, and plays the politics as well as reffing technically right. Few are clearly the best refs from their respective country, most have something else they work on. 

But since you don't want to pick a fight: name one single decision that went against us unfairly in the last cycle under Floro? And ask yourself why so many went our way?

Then compare that to the 30 years previous.

Speaking of ppl with a one sided agenda... You're trying to claim floro somehow politically influenced the referees into not making shit calls against us. 

Give me a break. You're really reaching...

[king1010]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

My argument was Floro was a factor, which I think is unquestionable. His prestige was not something a single reffign team wanted to deal with with an obvious mistake. We got the benefit of the doubt almost always, like never before. 

 

This needed to be requoted. 

It is unquestioable that floros prestige was not a single thing the refs wanted to deal with. we are all just blind to see it. 

Smh. 

Wait a second. This is coming from the guy who says the spanish 2nd league is the best in the world and spanish everything is just the god damn best. I can see why you would say a coach who can speak spanish and coached a season at real madrid 25 years ago politically used his prestige and pressured referees into not calling offsides...

 

[Moldy9]

Is he fired yet?

[Moldy9]

Seriously, there's no point keeping him around. You could go with someone cheaper and even that person wouldn't have made such bone head selections, tactics, positions and substitutions. The players praising him right now are obviously his favourites, Piette and DeGuz, two of which are too slow and not able to cut it or too old, so their opinions don't count much. You wouldn't hear Johnson, Tiebert or Osorio sharing the same praise. In addition he's already alienated a pool of players so again I ask why would you want to keep someone like him? So he can make the same mistakes another cycle???

[hodgkiss]

4 years ago I mentioned that we need a Concacaf coach. Preferably one from Mexico. Who better to know the best competition in our region? I think this is our opportunity again where we can make this happen. 

Grow some balls Canada. Make bold moves and get someone in place that knows what it takes to beat the USA and Mexico!

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 8/9/2016 at 7:50 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just shows how little you know about refs and reffing in general. Or just shows how your agenda is so one-sided you'll even argue it was Benito's fault your cereal was soggy this morning. 

Floro was a huge influence on positive reffing IMO.

Influence on reffing establishment is essential as it makes an official think twice. Home influence is one factor, the pressure of the institution naming you to ref as well, first your association that nominates you, then the Confederation that chooses you. Both being very political decisions. Any ref getting to international level has moved politically through the system, and plays the politics as well as reffing technically right. Few are clearly the best refs from their respective country, most have something else they work on. 

But since you don't want to pick a fight: name one single decision that went against us unfairly in the last cycle under Floro? And ask yourself why so many went our way?

Then compare that to the 30 years previous.

Thanks for liking guys. 

No need for me to be dogmatic about this, it is just a theory. But Avro is so frigging knee-jerk and red-neck it just tees me off, even if the red may be a Canada-supporter tatoo, just a dismal poster that guy.

He and his can have his way and we can watch how we get screwed by refs again in Concacaf as we go back to being naive suck-holes in the region.

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 hours ago, king1010 said:

Speaking of ppl with a one sided agenda... You're trying to claim floro somehow politically influenced the referees into not making shit calls against us. 

Give me a break. You're really reaching...

100% that is the case, from day one in fact. His prestige gave us credit in the political hierarchy of Concacaf and we got way better reffing, including scoring offside goals and not getting a single glaring call against us the whole period. 

Having a Canadian running the region since spring has helped since and will continue to. 

You obviously do not follow either club or international football as you simply are unaware of how things work in the real world. 

BTW, the fact you are offended to think Championship is not the best second tier in the world shows how brain-washed you are, how narrow-minded and dogmatic. 

All I posted, one day, was that if Hume was playing regularly in Spanish 2nd he would be arguably our highest level player after Atiba. And you went ape-shit, all the England fan boys who just believe and defy reason, make no arguments, and post like robots. The same guys who try to foist all kinds of England BS on a Canada board day in day out, then Iceland comes along and you run off with your tails between your legs. Silent for weeks. 

Same dumb-shit posters who have no idea how reffing works either on a club or international level.

[AvroArrow]

18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Thanks for liking guys. 

No need for me to be dogmatic about this, it is just a theory. But Avro is so frigging knee-jerk and red-neck it just tees me off, even if the red may be a Canada-supporter tatoo, just a dismal poster that guy.

He and his can have his way and we can watch how we get screwed by refs again in Concacaf as we go back to being naive suck-holes in the region.

Redneck?  I dawg gone like this here football! Yeehaw!

Fact:  You stated having a Spanish speaking coach gave us an advantage with the officials against El Salvador.
Fact:  That game was refereed by a Jamaican
Fact:  The official language of Jamaica is English.

Ergo, having a Spanish speaking coach when the referee speaks English provides no advantage.  That was my only point but for some reason this has set you off.  Feel free to continue with the personal diatribes and tangents.  They are entertaining.

[Marc]

Are we really going to pretend that the refs deal with Floro the same way they deal with Twamley or Yallop or Hart?  Let's get real.  They don't.  UT may have slipped on the specific language abilities of the ref in a certain game but it is telling that even you have stopped trying to argue against his real point .

[AvroArrow]

And here are some other fun facts:

Opponent/Nation of Referee/Official Language of Referee:

Honduras/Jamaica/English
El Salvador/USA/English
Mexico/St. Kits/English
Mexico/Cuba/Spanish
Honduras/Cuba/Spanish
El Salvador/Jamaica/English

So two things to note:
1.  In this round, only 1/3 of our refs actually spoke Spanish as their native tongue.  So Floro's advantage of being a Spanish speaker was only advantage for a small portion of our games.

2.  We did not have a single ref from Central America.  My experience watching the national team is that Central American refs are quicker with the foul calls, quicker with the cards, and have a much higher tolerance for the play acting, all which would benefit the style of play of a Central American team.  Case in point, the Jamaican referee waving at the El Salvador player to get off the ground as he rolled around while play was going on.  

[king1010]

To be honest i think the refs have been scared of david edgar and the polticial influence and prestige that he brings from scoring against manchester united in the premier league 10 years ago

[king1010]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

100% that is the case, from day one in fact. His prestige gave us credit in the political hierarchy of Concacaf and we got way better reffing, including scoring offside goals and not getting a single glaring call against us the whole period. 

Having a Canadian running the region since spring has helped since and will continue to. 

You obviously do not follow either club or international football as you simply are unaware of how things work in the real world. 

BTW, the fact you are offended to think Championship is not the best second tier in the world shows how brain-washed you are, how narrow-minded and dogmatic. 

All I posted, one day, was that if Hume was playing regularly in Spanish 2nd he would be arguably our highest level player after Atiba. And you went ape-shit, all the England fan boys who just believe and defy reason, make no arguments, and post like robots. The same guys who try to foist all kinds of England BS on a Canada board day in day out, then Iceland comes along and you run off with your tails between your legs. Silent for weeks. 

Same dumb-shit posters who have no idea how reffing works either on a club or international level.

You love the personal attacks eh lol. Its a soccer forum stop getting personal

you're literally the god damn best. You know everything there is about soccer. I shouldve of known this from your mastery of the best second division in the world. 

You're just the best. You should be the next national team coach with your political prestige that comes from your vastly superior knowledge of the game that us mere mortal posters cant comprehend. 

By the way im italian Serie B > 

of course i OBVIOUSLY dont follow club or international soccer. I just aimlesly post on here about random stuff. What kind of forum is this anyways?

[aloyol]

2 hours ago, Marc said:

Are we really going to pretend that the refs deal with Floro the same way they deal with Twamley or Yallop or Hart?  Let's get real.  They don't.  UT may have slipped on the specific language abilities of the ref in a certain game but it is telling that even you have stopped trying to argue against his real point .

As a fan, I wasn't impress with Floro TBH. Apart for the 3 games two years ago (Jamaica, Colombia and Panama), I haven't seen anything special from the teams he put on the field. So, I'm not so sure why refs should deal with him differently. He isn't someone who has an impressive track record in recent years. So, unless you have a big name (which Floro isn't IMO), I doubt refs are being influenced that much by who's coaching a team like Canada.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Floro wasn't enough of a big name to have much influence on refs in CONCACAF.

Also, like I said earlier, the last time we were screwed in a WCQ is in 2004, a long time ago. Maybe CONCACAF refs have improved or we are luckier than we used to be with bad calls.

[Unnamed Trialist]

The point is if these guys get their way they'll hire Carl Robinson or de Santos or let Findlay take it and we'll get regularly screwed out of results, like it used to be, standard fare. These guys want us to go back to being blasted in the rear because we are lame, have no prestige, and are easy to kick around. Are nice losers, are friendly about it.

Every single cycle I can remember, every GC, we have had bad to terrible calls against us and hardly ever a break. But some guys have short memories. They want to go down on a dubious penalty, try to come back, watch how a red turns yellow when the opponent does it, have the epic tying goal called back for a momentary linesman delusion.

I don't want that because I prefer to be able to say we were close, we needed a goal in ES or Honduras and failed. Like now. This is one of the few times in memory  we have absolutely nothing but ourselves to blame for not going further.  And we are actually talking football, just football, and not out of our asses like it was in the good old days some guys seem to be longing for still.

 

 

 

 

[AvroArrow]

On 9/7/2016 at 10:07 AM, AvroArrow said:

Pushing for Carl Robinson makes very little sense.   No offense to Carl, but the only reason we know who he is is because he coaches Vancouver and played for Toronto.  If Carl was a no name American coach with a similar MLS resume, this board would go ballistic if he was the new hire.

Hi Unnamed Trialist.  I'll just quote myself from earlier in this thread.  Feel free to keep jumping to conclusions.

Just so you know, I don't recall ever saying that Floro should be fired.  The only issues I have had are his late game subs when we need goals (especially Edgar for Hoilett against El Salvador and Hainault at the Gold Cup) and his excluding of Johnson from the most recent qualifiers.  I haven't lost any sleep over some of the other issues that people have had, such as the exclusion of Osorio.  I don't think a decision should be made immediately after a tough loss and the ending of our qualification campaign regarding the manager, because emotions can get in the way and Floro should not be dumped if we are going to replace him with someone less qualified.

But what do I know?  I've never lived in Spain nor do I speak anything beyond Dora the Explorer Spanish.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I read this and am wondering, how was Holger's Spanish?

[1996]

As someone previously posted , is he fired yet? Why , pretty simple really, did not qualify for the Hex and of course the World Cup, had a lousy GC. His baffling player selections and in game substitutions .  For a coach supposedly selecting players that he thought fit his master defensive tactics Canada still gave up too many goals to Mexico with a 3-0 thrashing at home in a  sold out pro Canadian stadium. This team again with Floro's player selections of picking players that he picked to play his defensive tactics still was not able to get that crucial point in Honduras and the game could have easily been another 8 - 1 loss had it not been for the great play of the Canadian keeper and just Honduras misfiring , so Floro almost had the same result as Hart in Honduras playing Floro ball and using players that could play his system, interesting. Moreover, going into El Salvador and playing an El Salvador lineup that was very depleted and still playing bunker soccer and not being able to get a victory.  Therefore, for these reasons is why I will once again ask, is he fired yet?

[baulderdash77]

They don't have to fire him.  His contract expired when we were eliminated. I'm sure they will meet with him next week and talk it out then begin a new coaching search.

*edit* I have a feeling he won't be the coach anymore but he's still going to be involved with the team.

[Obinna]

We could use him in a technical role at the CSA.