Canadian Premier League

[Gopherbashi]

Honestly, I'd rather not have them go for 10-12 teams.  Remember that however many teams the CPL launches with (if it does) - you're asking the country to support 5 pro soccer teams on top of that.  There's a limit to what the country can reasonably prop up.

6 teams sounds small, but that means 11 pro soccer teams across the country.

[nolbertos]

25 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Have you ever started a league? If even the MLS couldn't start as schedule why are you saying 2018 or bust?

Most people would rather have a 10-12 team start in 2019 than only 6 teams for 2018

It didn't take MLS 10 plus on and off again years to try to make this league happen.  The CSA should just admit, they don't have owners willing to lose alot of money to start a CPL ASAP or enough investors interested to even start a league, and would rather make no promises.  Mont Vic ahouldn't have declared anything, cuz now it makes them lose amateurish.  This is pretty much the CUSL report scenario all over again but different decade.  

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

I understand people's frustration, but I won't exactly boycott the league if it starts in 2019 either XD

All I can do is do what I can do in the town that I'm in to help ensure it will be a success.  Doesn't really change anything for me personally.  But I'm fairly young and wasn't around for the failed iterations of Canadian Soccer, so perhaps my glasses are a tad rose-tinted.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Will be interesting to see, if we find out any more about why Duane Rollins has stopped tweeting. He was left looking a bit foolish with the recent 95% confident there will be an announcement by Christmas and the no Fury in the Voyageurs Cup if they are an affiliate postures, so it would be understandable if he no longer trusts his sources to give him the straight goods after that and no longer wants to stick his neck out quite so much. I'm not quite so negative on this as some other posters as I never believed it was happening for 2018 in the manner tweeted about and have always suspected that some USL/MLS angle would ultimately be needed to get something concrete to actually happen. 

[baulderdash77]

I think 2018 was the target date.  I've personally heard it at the BSB meeting.

That being said it was also clear that there is a lot of complicated business hurdles to a 2018 launch.  Besides investors there was a complete investor group and stadium leases and availability, etc.

Now there's investors from 12+ cities coming up.  A few months ago we were talking 6-8.  The scale and difficulty is going up.

Its incredibly complex to launch a league like this.  We're 15 months from launch date and without many of these details I'm not surprised that the 2018 target is now 2019 kick off.  

 

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, Pat Carrasco said:

I know that I'm going to take lots of criticism for posting this type of inflammatory language, but I was deeply insulted today when Victor Montagliani made the statement that the CPL could start in 2019. It's either 2018 or bust. That's the bottom line. Otherwise this is seen as a BIG joke. I was even surprised that Voyageurs were not up-and-arms over Montagliani's comments. Voyageurs should not stand by and let the CSA do this to us. I even tweeted Anthony Totera my deep depreciating of the comments from the former CSA president. It appears that Montagliani has a tendency of consistently going back on his words. This is one of the reason why I've always had little respect for him throughout the years.

This is the kind of talk you hear from a spoiled, entitled child. Nothing is for certain, there are no guarantees this league will ever even exist. People need to get their heads out of their fuckin asses and learn to walk before they run. We should be eternally grateful if this league ever gets off the ground and we get the honour of going to a Canadian soccer league match for the first time in 2 and a half decades.

[matty]

On the topic of Rollins and Tots: For the time being, unless I'm told similar from a source, I view it as mostly gossip. I get excited by their reports but I don't outright trust it. Same goes for most CPL reports from bloggers and Twitter, including those I've met met. The Hamilton Spectator has been the best source for CPL news for the last year almost. They don't make a ton of speculation and don't waste ink on non-stories related to this league.

[grasshopper1917]

There is so much that goes into starting a league. I think the reality is for a 2018 start we need a model - teams confirmed - places to play - team names - ticket drives - tv deal ect...... This is alot to get in place for 2018. Sure it may happen BUT if it is delayed to 2009 I don't think anyone will be surprised. Better  to delay it one year to get it right then to rush it. 

Still with that being said there is a chance things may fall into place for 2018 but in order for that to happen we would have to have owners in place pretty quick. Here's to hoping! 

[rob.notenboom]

What has come out of from Mont Vic, the CSA, the TiCats org, or anyone else officially is virtually nothing. While that may be a legitimate indication that there isn't much happening and therefore not much to report, it also means that there is really nothing for which to hold those same people to account. As much as I find the delays and lack of information difficult and frustrating, I find it hard to get angry at these organizations who have not promised anyone anything besides 'we are working on a league' and 'we hope to launch in 2018.'

[Ansem]

2 hours ago, Pat Carrasco said:

Listen Ansem, lots of people are getting sick of this...Every year the CSA is changing the date. This is becoming a joke. If you conduct a poll, you will see that most people will turn away.

The V forum aren't the majority of people. Also, for that league to be successful and thrive, it needs to convince people out there, not us.

Meaning you only get 1 shot at a FIRST IMPRESSION.

Perhaps launching with more teams is just that, smart and trying to not screw up their 1st impression 

[shermanator]

6 hours ago, nolbertos said:

Not liking Mont Vic's words of encouragement.  But then again, knew this route was going to take longer.  The longer the CSA and so called investors try to create this league, which might never happen, the more time Canada as a national team will suffer.  Rather than joining something more established like the USL, they think reinventing the wheel with a CPL will help us.  Frustrating honestly that the CSA is still full of hot air and people gullibly believing Rollins and Totera

This is a Canadian inferiority sentiment that really plagues our country as a whole, not just in the MLS/NASL/USL/CPL discussion, but in other areas (retail, television, music to name a few). It's really frustrating to see our country have to suck America's dick to get any perceived sense of quality. Despite my agreement that any CPL league (if it actually comes to fruition) will not be to the initial quality of MLS, MLS is not that good of a league on the world stage. USL is a terrible level of play. NASL may not even be a league.

Latching onto the leagues run by a rival federation thus far has not seen the Canadian national and youth national teams advance where it matters - in the results. Unless we want to fall below the likes of Cuba, Guyana, DR, etc, we have to find a solution that focuses on the development of Canadian players, coaches, referees and administration above all else. If that takes until 2019 or 2020 or 2030 so be it.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, nolbertos said:

It didn't take MLS 10 plus on and off again years to try to make this league happen.  The CSA should just admit, they don't have owners willing to lose alot of money to start a CPL ASAP or enough investors interested to even start a league, and would rather make no promises.  Mont Vic ahouldn't have declared anything, cuz now it makes them lose amateurish.  This is pretty much the CUSL report scenario all over again but different decade.  

CSA planned for a league since like 2013? And their goal was 2018. I think it's a fair amount of time to do due diligence on starting a pro league.

How do you know they don't have owners not willing to take a risk on long term returns just like MLS did? Show some sources.

Amateurish? You should take a look at how MLS started. They seem competent to me so far by taking their time to do it right.

[Complete Homer]

I think we are getting a bit carried away based off of a quick last line in the article. If Montagliani says 2018 is still the goal, the TiCats are sending out emails telling fans to get ready for soccer in 2018, and even Dino Rossi is tweeting that the "key figures" are still telling him to plan around a 2018 kickoff, I think it's fair to say that I trust the people actually involved that 2018 is most likely. Like Rob sort of said, almost all other dates have been from outside reports, very little has ever been promised.

That said, if it is 2019, so be it. You get one shot to get it right, I'd rather it be 2020 than be rushed.

32 minutes ago, matty said:

On the topic of Rollins and Tots: For the time being, unless I'm told similar from a source, I view it as mostly gossip. I get excited by their reports but I don't outright trust it. Same goes for most CPL reports from bloggers and Twitter, including those I've met met. The Hamilton Spectator has been the best source for CPL news for the last year almost. They don't make a ton of speculation and don't waste ink on non-stories related to this league.

Rollins specifically has broken a fair number of stories, though definitely gotten other stuff (especially dates) wrong, so I think you've got to put some weight in it without taking it as the gospel. There's a big difference between accepting the possibility that what they are saying is not the whole story and outright dismissing them as sources.

Granted, I probably shouldn't get back into this, it is the most boring conversation we have in this thread

[PopePouri]

1 hour ago, nolbertos said:

It didn't take MLS 10 plus on and off again years to try to make this league happen.  The CSA should just admit, they don't have owners willing to lose alot of money to start a CPL ASAP or enough investors interested to even start a league, and would rather make no promises.  Mont Vic ahouldn't have declared anything, cuz now it makes them lose amateurish.  This is pretty much the CUSL report scenario all over again but different decade.  

You seem to know about these inner discussions. Please share.

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, nolbertos said:

It didn't take MLS 10 plus on and off again years to try to make this league happen.  The CSA should just admit, they don't have owners willing to lose alot of money to start a CPL ASAP or enough investors interested to even start a league, and would rather make no promises.  Mont Vic ahouldn't have declared anything, cuz now it makes them lose amateurish.  This is pretty much the CUSL report scenario all over again but different decade.  

Actually, if you look into the MLS beginnings, it had a pretty similar timeline. It even got delayed a year past an officially announced start date.

[matty]

35 minutes ago, shermanator said:

This is a Canadian inferiority sentiment that really plagues our country as a whole, not just in the MLS/NASL/USL/CPL discussion, but in other areas (retail, television, music to name a few). It's really frustrating to see our country have to suck America's dick to get any perceived sense of quality

HEY! I think most Canadians would argue that we rock when it comes to music. From folk to prog rock to indie pop to easy listening to modern hip hop to drone metal Canada has been one of the big 3 for producing top talent on the freaking planet. Music wise, while our numbers are under the US and UK, we hit standards few can reach. Hell American bands throw Canadian cities into their names to seem cool. Canadians generally wear our musicians successes as a badge of honour.

29 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Rollins specifically has broken a fair number of stories, though definitely gotten other stuff (especially dates) wrong, so I think you've got to put some weight in it without taking it as the gospel. There's a big difference between accepting the possibility that what they are saying is not the whole story and outright dismissing them as sources.

Granted, I probably shouldn't get back into this, it is the most boring conversation we have in this thread

I agree on Rollins being accurate a lot but feel he his sources can be hit or miss. I use gossip in a sense which is closer to tabloid than tradition gossip.

I think Rollins (and Tots) hear something from one source and blow it up without any backing or confirmation. Rollins' views seem more grounded and I think he tries to second source stuff but still at times, a lot more than I want to see, falls victim to overblowing something.

We seem to be heading towards a shift from Rollins and Tots reporting to MSM getting big breaks.

[Complete Homer]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

I agree on Rollins being accurate a lot but feel he his sources can be hit or miss. I use gossip in a sense which is closer to tabloid than tradition gossip.

I think Rollins (and Tots) hear something from one source and blow it up without any backing or confirmation. Rollins' views seem more grounded and I think he tries to second source stuff but still at times, a lot more than I want to see, falls victim to overblowing something.

Not to perpetuate this topic - I think we are basically in agreement - but I just wanted to note that Rollins says he's only been reporting things he has heard from two independent sources. Totera I certainly think reports from one source...BOOM

I think part of Rollins' issue is that he likes to speculate a lot (understandable considering he has to fill an hour of content daily), and people take his speculation to have the same weight as when he says he is reporting from sources, and people get up in arms when his speculation is incorrect. Case in point being the Fury V-cup sanctioning, expecting to hear official announcement before Christmas, etc.

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, Pat Carrasco said:

Listen Ansem, lots of people are getting sick of this...Every year the CSA is changing the date. This is becoming a joke. If you conduct a poll, you will see that most people will turn away.

No. If the league is announced and 2020 is the start date for example, that isn't going to turn anybody away. Nobody is going to say "I would have supported this league if it launched in 2018, but 2020? No, not happening..." 

3 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Honestly, I'd rather not have them go for 10-12 teams.  Remember that however many teams the CPL launches with (if it does) - you're asking the country to support 5 pro soccer teams on top of that.  There's a limit to what the country can reasonably prop up.

6 teams sounds small, but that means 11 pro soccer teams across the country.

That ultimately depends on which markets the CPL enters. If the league launches with 10 teams for example rather than 6, and the four 4 extra teams are in Halifax, Quebec City, KW and London, the number of teams in that case wouldn't have any bearing at all on how many pro soccer teams Canada can support. Unless, you're talking about dilution of talent and quality of play suffering, which is a little different.

[SuperCanuck]

3 hours ago, dsqpr said:

From a fan perspective, it isn't about quality, it is about the football experience. It is about the game. Thousands of people happily turn up to watch Scunthorpe United every week (no disrespect meant to Scunthorpe, just a random lower league team).

MLS is a nothing league. If you win the EPL you are Champions of England. If you win Serie A you are Champions of Italy. If you win the Bundesliga you are Champions of Germany. That means something. If you win MLS you are Champions of nothing. CPL will be "better" right out of the gate because the winners will be Champions of Canada.

This is obviously way off topic, but this team always makes me think of the old joke,

Name three English teams with naughty words in their names:  Arsenal, Scunthorpe and Manchester Fucking United.

[1996]

Ya ok what the hell, you win MLS and your the champions of nothing tell that to the TFC fans that snapped up MLS CUP tickets in 30 seconds lol, please! Look it will be great for development to have more Canadian cities having a pro team for Canadian players to play in and develope in.

[grasshopper1917]

The MLS champion would be viewed at the North American champion wouldn't they?

[rob.notenboom]

7 hours ago, dsqpr said:

From a fan perspective, it isn't about quality, it is about the football experience. It is about the game. Thousands of people happily turn up to watch Scunthorpe United every week (no disrespect meant to Scunthorpe, just a random lower league team).

Whenever arguments of 'league quality' are made, this will always be the last word and winning point. The fact is that millions and millions of people turn out weekly to watch not-the-best-soccer-league-in-the-world. Hell, I used to have seasons tickets for U of R men's and women's basketball. It sure wasn't the NBA but it was compelling and enjoyable nonetheless. As long as the soccer and stadium experiences attract folks and keep them coming back, the fact that the quality level isn't Barce vs Real Madrid won't be that important to most. And, although I admit the pseudo-religious undertones of this will make me cringe a bit, this league will serve a much larger purpose, so I've got more than enough motivation to go watch. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said:

The MLS champion would be viewed at the North American champion wouldn't they?

By the vast majority even if a CPL emerges.

[PJSweet]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 8:35 PM, baulderdash77 said:

Yikes that's really not a great deal.  Players have to be in a a TFC or MLS approved academy before they turn 16 AND sign USL/MLS deals as their first contract.  That's a very defensive and anti-CPL

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, grasshopper1917 said:

The MLS champion would be viewed at the North American champion wouldn't they?

United States Champions.