Canadian Premier League

[grasshopper1917]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Ratings and articles are inconsistent with your claim. 

Off course I should change my wording from nobody to most people outside the big 3 don't care about MLS.

I mean i'm not going to argue Nova Scotia is a hotbed for MLS soccer. Even if 1% or 2% of the population follow it that still adds up to 10,000 -  20,000 people. Canada is a hockey country, followed by baseball and football. Soccer in general is a little ways down the totem pole at this point in time but with that being said I really believe MLS soccer has helped create more interest in soccer (admittedly modestly more) from coast to coast not exclusively in the 'Big 3'.

One thing to look at is the MLS cup ratings on TSN. It drew an average of 1.5 million viewers and peaked at 2.7 viewers for the shoot out. During the night 4.2 million viewers took in some part of the match. These are huge numbers by Canadian sports standards. 

If someone said 15 years ago and audience of over 1 million viewers would tune in to watch a game played by a soccer team based in Toronto you would likely get labeled as 'insane'.  I guess my point is even though support outside the BIG 3 cities is modest - it is there. In my mind and from what I seen there is a little bit more interest for soccer in general since the MLS came to Canada.

 

[1996]

Amen brother " grasshopper"1917 , people on here are just finding it hard to admit the success that the MLS has had in Canada of course it's not Blue Jay or NHL numbers not even close , but like you said 15 years ago people will have laughed at anybody who would have suggested that the MLS would even have this kind of success in Canada it has had so far, no one is suggesting not to go ahead with a Canadian league the more soccer the better for me as a soccer fan, but stop coming on here and not acknowledging that the MLS has grown soccer awareness in Canada like no North American League has ever done.

[smeghead]

This torontonian hopes for a rival to tfc someday in the cpl. Monopolies suck in a city this big. Id love to support a local team against the mlse. 

[Gordon]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

"dsqpr" the MLS is doing so much better in the Canadian cities than anyone would of ever invisioned, do I care that someone in Regina or Frt. McMurray does not  care , what the hell do I care if no one outside the big three Canadian cities in the MLS care. You think it will tarnish a Championship if it's ever won by one of the 3 Canadian MLS cities , no no no lol. The Canadian MLS cities matter in their cities and that's all that us fans in these cities care, we don't care that people in the rest of Canada don't care, we will still fill the stadiums in the Canadian MLS cities and if we win a championship we will party like there is no tomorrow, that people outside of Canada's 3 biggest cities don't care does not even come into the conversation who the hell cares.

Obviously you do care given the need you felt to speculate on the thinking and motives of the so-called MLS "bashers". I find that odd given that the clear majority of folks here seem quite content to let MLS co-exist with CPL.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

I don't as long asthe rest of Canadians are healthy and are relatively doing fine in life that's what I care about , stop trying to discredit a league that has so far been pretty successful in Canada's three biggest cities with interest and crowds not even I as a diehard soccer fan ever invisioned, if you combine the population of the three Canadian MLS cities you are talking about a major portion of the overall Canadian population where  the MLS is in and is pretty successful, its successful sports fans care in these cities it's working and to me that's all that matters , sorry.

Question.

What has that league brought to the Canadian program in terms of results?

Nothing. That's what most of us dislike, more so than the league itself

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, grasshopper1917 said:

I mean i'm not going to argue Nova Scotia is a hotbed for MLS soccer. Even if 1% or 2% of the population follow it that still adds up to 10,000 -  20,000 people. Canada is a hockey country, followed by baseball and football. Soccer in general is a little ways down the totem pole at this point in time but with that being said I really believe MLS soccer has helped create more interest in soccer (admittedly modestly more) from coast to coast not exclusively in the 'Big 3'.

One thing to look at is the MLS cup ratings on TSN. It drew an average of 1.5 million viewers and peaked at 2.7 viewers for the shoot out. During the night 4.2 million viewers took in some part of the match. These are huge numbers by Canadian sports standards. 

If someone said 15 years ago and audience of over 1 million viewers would tune in to watch a game played by a soccer team based in Toronto you would likely get labeled as 'insane'.  I guess my point is even though support outside the BIG 3 cities is modest - it is there. In my mind and from what I seen there is a little bit more interest for soccer in general since the MLS came to Canada.

 

Thanks to pointing out that Canadians are much more patriotic than before. The MLS playoff became a Canadian story more so than an MLS story. Whenever it's Canada competing for something that matters, they tune it, including waking up in the middle of the night when Raonic or Genie Bouchard plays in a major tournament representing Canada

Where are those million viewers during regular season? I know, doing something else because they have no attachment to MLS or the big 3 teams. This is where CPL can do better than MLS here in Canada

[Ansem]

47 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Amen brother " grasshopper"1917 , people on here are just finding it hard to admit the success that the MLS has had in Canada of course it's not Blue Jay or NHL numbers not even close , but like you said 15 years ago people will have laughed at anybody who would have suggested that the MLS would even have this kind of success in Canada it has had so far, no one is suggesting not to go ahead with a Canadian league the more soccer the better for me as a soccer fan, but stop coming on here and not acknowledging that the MLS has grown soccer awareness in Canada like no North American League has ever done.

I guess all those journalists saying that MLS is a regional phenomenon and not a national phenomenon are out of their minds except you.

Whatever.

I'm from Quebec, born and grew up in Montreal and I can tell you without any hesitation and without the shadow of a doubt...NOBODY CARES about the Montreal Impact outside Montreal Island. The rest of the province could care less about MLS or Impact.

A CPL team in Québec City however would draw most of the rest of the province

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

It's not that it's that popular outside of the main markets, it's that it's starting to be.  I don't doubt the measly numbers for the regular season, but I can guarantee that wasn't the case for the playoffs.  Especially that Montreal Toronto semi had people talking.  I had my friend who's never watched a soccer game in his life asking me "so how come they went into overtime if it was 3-2 and how come they won 5-2".  

And just generally people who I wouldn't have assumed follow it(aka most people) asking me questions about it.

I'm not really a marketing expert, but I would assume market penetrance for basically a new product follows an exponential growth sort of model, assuming the product is worthwhile(this point is debatable).

But I don't think pointing at low current numbers has all that much bearing moving forward.  It only takes a few passionate people in each city(esp the case for small towns) for it to start to become mainstream, which I would argue it is.  The signs are there.  Raptors and Maple leafs wearing TFC hats was the one for me that made me go woah, this is happening.  Not to mention, everyone wants to root for a winner.  We have been starved of champions here(other than CFL, which is a given), and If VWFC/TFC/IMFC is the first team in their city to win a north american championship(which MLS most certainly is viewed as by most people) people will hop aboard the bandwagon quickly.  This country is straight up desperate for winners.  Period. 

[Ansem]

Sorry to say that but having stories about "friends" getting into soccer because of the latest MLS playoff runs still doesn't represent most or majority of people. 

As for marketing, the basics in marketing is to get people to CARE and FEEL something about your brand. MLS has done this very poorly in Canada. TFC has done a great job in Toronto, so did the other 2 clubs in their respective markets but the rest of the country? Absolutely not. MLS are content with the 3 markets and are utterly uninterested with the rest of the country, same as even the freaking NHL who's been taken over by Americans.

Personally, if done right, CPL has the potential to be the next big thing in Canada, by Canadians for Canadians.

[1996]

Like I said as long as the stadiums in the MLS Canadian cities are pretty well full and the it gets decent media coverage then I'm happy I'm like a Raptor fan who is happy that there is an NBA team in Toronto, I'm sure they are not staying up st night wondering about the future of the pro Canadian basketball league , is that league still around by the way?

[1996]

Eh Ansem the population in those three cities are bigger than a lot of high ranking soccer nations, so even if it stays popular just in those three cities is still pretty good lol and that's enough of a population base to make a difference in creating Canadian soccer players of the future .

[Bison44]

Well at least the 3 MLS clubs have gotten people interested in their repsective cities, thats something.  3 big clubs investing tons of cash into soccer, well thats something to build on. We still need the CPL, period.  We still need more pro clubs, more CDN coaches, spots for players, grass roots support and general interest across the country for everything soccer.  And I think the CPL will do more for the game and our National team than MLS, but you have to start somewhere.  People from other regions dont give a shit about MLS, well they also dont give a shit enough about soccer to have thier own team either!     

[1996]

So no one cares about the Impact outside of a small area of a certain part of Montreal oh ok but man if Quebec City was to get a CPL team watch out Quebec will go soccer crazy watch out you Montreal Canadians, ?.

[rob.notenboom]

4 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Like I said as long as the stadiums in the MLS Canadian cities are pretty well full and the it gets decent media coverage then I'm happy I'm like a Raptor fan who is happy that there is an NBA team in Toronto, I'm sure they are not staying up st night wondering about the future of the pro Canadian basketball league , is that league still around by the way?

I have no issues with anyone wanting to be a Canadian MLS team fan. But what unites the vast majority of people on this board is a concern for Canadian soccer, not just their local club. This means national team's success, and success for the sport in all of its manifestations across Canada, is much more of a priority. 

I'm not saying one way is right and one wrong, simply that on here the latter is more prevalent, that's all. 

[Complete Homer]

There's a middle ground here. MLS has been very successful in its home markets, and has begun to scratch beneath the surface elsewhere in the country. That's a good thing for both CPL. There seems to be a trend, especially after the Toronto-Montreal series, of people willing to give soccer a chance

Both CPL and MLS can capitalize on that. There will be a lot more fans that show up to CPL games because soccer itself became culturally palatable than as a result of some sort of flame war between fan groups. I get the frustration directed towards MLS, especially with the way the domestic rule change went down, but the MLS teams will do a lot more good than harm for CPL, assuming they don't start a smear campaign to protect their market share. 

If CPL manages to be successful, in ten years you can start calling out out-of-market MLS snobs the same way Canadian Dallas Cowboys fans get called out

[shermanator]

2 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

If CPL manages to be successful, in ten years you can start calling out out-of-market MLS snobs the same way Canadian Dallas Cowboys fans get called out

I don't think I have to wait 10 years to do that. I'm currently doing it.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Eh Ansem the population in those three cities are bigger than a lot of high ranking soccer nations, so even if it stays popular just in those three cities is still pretty good lol and that's enough of a population base to make a difference in creating Canadian soccer players of the future .

You're really missing the bigger picture. You might be content to have a team in your city but our National program is a disgrace and had nothing to show for it after 8 years of MLS "supposed" helping us getting better on the world stage.

How does sitting on your local team and saying that most people in Canada follows those 3 help us get through the HEX? How many Canadians actually play in MLS? 5%? We have talent in Canada but they aren't giving enoufh opportunities to play in the league.

The criticism is more about how little MLS actually contribute to our program than the league itself. Status quo doesn't work and CPL over time give us a better chance to improve on the world stage by opening all those extra spots for young talented Canadians to play consistent minutes at the highest level possible to have a chance to improve and help the country.

There'sa bigger picture here than just feeding entertainment "Made in USA" to citizens of those 3 cities. People wants to get into soccer bit every year we're painfully reminded how much we suck in the world of FIFA and it just discourage people to get involved consistently. MLS isn't enough to lift soccer in this country.

We need our own league, with Canadian players helping to improve our national program so we can CONSISTENTLY beat the teams were supposed to bea5 in CONCACAF and compete with the USA, Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, Jamaica while being able to keep up with Mexico.

Can MLS help us get there on its own? No.

Canadian teams in USL/NASL instead of CPL? Forget about it.

We tried the USSF route and it's been a FAILURE. Can we try another way? Our way. 

[1996]

Look all I'm saying is that yes start a CPL of course I'm a soccer fan and a National team fan been one since the early 1970's for heavens sake , Gerry Gray still one of the best Canadian midfielders ever, but I'm really enjoying seeing are 3 Canadian MLS cities do so well attendance wise and even media wise, I'm fucken enjoying it after so many years of fucken nothing nada and I've been at this shit for ever, so excuse me if the thought of starting over again does not excite me I'm sorry but I'm enjoying this big time feel of the Canadian MLS teams after suffering for ever when it came to local pro soccer that I supported for so long , I was there with the other few hundred fans at Centennial Stadium in Mississauga or Varsity Stadium or Ether Shinet stadium always supporting the different incarnations of local pro soccer after the old NASl folded in 1984 and TFC was born in 2007, I've paid my dues now let me enjoy this recent popularity of MLS teams in their respective MLS Canadian cities I'll leave it to all you young guns to support this new league I'm happy where I am now , anyways I've rambled enough today got to go it's New Yesrs eve , later kids.  

[Complete Homer]

13 minutes ago, shermanator said:

I don't think I have to wait 10 years to do that. I'm currently doing it.

Nothing wrong with friendly rivalry  Just saying MLS is necessary, it normalized cheering for a Canadian club instead of defaulting to something overseas or a total lack of interest in soccer. The transition to something more local is the next logical step.

As younger people who see local pro soccer as normal instead of a novelty become more relevant in the market than their parents, CPL will be trying to capture a decent chunk of the large pie created by MLS, as opposed to trying to grab the entirety of a tiny pie that existed in the past.

Not to make too much of a comparison to the National Basketball League, as 90% of posters in this thread believe the ambitions of CPL are beyond a salary cap of $150 000, but I think it is fair to say that that league would never have existed without the Raptors. People are insecure, and most of the time won't give something a try until they get the impression that it is trendy

[Ansem]

19 minutes ago, 1996 said:

So no one cares about the Impact outside of a small area of a certain part of Montreal oh ok but man if Quebec City was to get a CPL team watch out Quebec will go soccer crazy watch out you Montreal Canadians, ?.

Now you're just being a smart ass. There's a dynamic in Quebec where most of the province outside of Montreal Metro are anti Montreal as it gets. Montreal is 1.8M people out of over 7M people...so yeah, they aren't Quebec's team...far from it

A Quebec Cits team would be followed by most of the rest of the province who don't want anything to do with Montreal. He'll when the Nordiques existed, they were more over in the province than the Habs. They would sometimes get bigger cheers in Montreal Forum than the Habs themselves.

Quebec being the most nationalistic province in Canada pitting Québec born players on the field and marketing their team as "Quebec team" shouldn't be underestimated. The Impact only starts Bernier (inconsistently) who's in the end of his career, after that, it's an international/American team.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

9 minutes ago, 1996 said:

Eh Ansem the population in those three cities are bigger than a lot of high ranking soccer nations, so even if it stays popular just in those three cities is still pretty good lol and that's enough of a population base to make a difference in creating Canadian soccer players of the future .

Most post-WWII immigration from soccer loving countries focused on those three cities and areas within a couple of hours drive from them. The idea that because it works in the GTA and lower mainland BC, it's automatically going to be huge in Halifax and Quebec City where there are very few recent immigrants and soccer only really took off as a recreational activity for kids in the last 20 years always seems wildly optimistic to me.

Soccer was also huge in those three major metropolitan markets back in the late 70s and early 80s with the original NASL, so it wasn't really a new unexpected thing that the next legitimately D1 level league would be able to do much the same regardless of what all the posters on here that used to drone on about the lack of interest in the Lynx thought ago 10 to 15 years ago. 

There are a few outliers like Cincinnatti that suggest huge crowds can be drawn by D2 level soccer in North America if it is marketed correctly, but the examples of lower level pro soccer being made to work in markets of under one million as "CPL" wil need to do multiple times to have any kind of stability are still few and far between. 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Most post-WWII immigration from soccer loving countries focused on those three cities and areas within a couple of hours drive from them. The idea that because it works in the GTA and lower mainland BC, it's automatically going to be huge in Halifax and Quebec City where there are very few recent immigrants and soccer only really took off as a recreational activity for kids in the last 20 years always seems wildly optimistic to me.

Soccer was also huge in those three major metropolitan markets back in the late 70s and early 80s with the original NASL, so it wasn't really a new unexpected thing that the next legitimately D1 level league would be able to do much the same regardless of what all the posters on here that used to drone on about the lack of interest in the Lynx thought ago 10 to 15 years ago. 

There are a few outliers like Cincinnatti that suggest huge crowds can be drawn by D2 level soccer in North America if it is marketed correctly, but the examples of lower level pro soccer being made to work in markets of under one million as "CPL" wil need to do multiple times to have any kind of stability are still few and far between. 

We get it. CPL will fail if it miraculously happens. We need the USL to save us. Gotcha

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

You clearly don't get it, if that's what you think I am saying.

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

You clearly don't get it, if that's what you think I am saying.

Pretty much yeah.

You underestimate Canadians a bit too much for my taste.

Pretty sure the concept of MLS was heresy in the 90s and look at the league now.

Why can't our Canadian cities replicate the same over time? No one's expecting 25k per games in sold out stadiums but the goal is to grow it in the stands, on the field and on TV. 

Takes time, that's all.

[1996]

"Ansem" I'm going to venture you relatively young compared to myself and I'm guessing BBTB, I think BBTB goes back pretty far back in supporting Canadian soccer maybe not as far back as me but I'm sure they have been at it awhile too. We want the same thing in the end a strong national team and soccer to be bigger on the pro side bigger than it is today, but we are going by experience and being realistic in terms of a national pro soccer league. I think in the end the future growth of the MLS is where the promise land lies for even the advancement of our Canadian players and the national team, but if we can get a nice stable CPL it will just be another helper in developing players, and remember it's only been 8 years more or less with the MLS in Canada give it time and you will see improvement of the Canadian players because of the MLS, a lot of people don't see it like that I think it's still to early to judge MLS Canadian team Canadian player development.