Alphonso Davies

[koolvid]

5 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

These exact comparisons aren't doing Davies justice. He is a winger, Pulisic is a CM. The skill sets of those positions are completely different. Pulisic is an amazing player and he is very suited to the CM role with great vision and passing. Davies is also an amazing player and is very suited to the winger role with great speed and deception. Saying that Pulisic is a better passer is like saying that davies beats more people 1 on 1. Both are true, but both are more specific to the position they play. Because they play different positions it is very hard to tell who is "better". Davies still needs to develop is final pass but back when Pulisic was Davies age he needed to develop some things too, it just wasn't his passing. Obviously Davies still needs to develop more, but he has time to do that and he has a better opportunity to do that because he is playing at a higher level than Pulisic was. Davies is an incredible talent, and he could get to the level that Pulisic is, but he plays a different position!

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/302692/Show/Christian-Pulisic

 

He plays on the wing just as much as he's play at the middle. He's not a CM, he's Winger/CAM. He plays CAM for the US do to their lack of creating talent in the middle. Even if what you say is true, if Pulisic was strictly a CM he still delivers much better crosses than Davies who's a winger. But Pulisic can also play as a winger. 

 

I don't care if Davies never joins a CL team or even goes to a top league in Europe. I just want him to be "our guy". The US has/had Donovan/Dempsey, Mexico has Chicharito/Vela/Previously Gio when he was in form, Costa Rica has Ruiz/Campbell/Wanchope, Guatemala had Carlos Ruiz (Pescadito), Panama has Blas Pérez ect... I want to have a marque player who other countries/teams fear/respect and we rally around. 

[harrycoyster]

16 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Not many players have success at 16. Pele (at 15?) and Wayne Rooney come to mind for me.

Who knows how good this kid can be. Even now, he is better than he was when he arrived in camp.

For every Rooney, Gotze and Wilshire there is a James Vaughan, Freddy Adu, and Mark Platts. Can we please stop comparing a kid that has been dead average against MLS level competition to players like Rooney, Pele, and Pulisic? 

[Ansem]

4 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Davies hasn't yet shown he's capable of beating defenders with anything but raw burst, that doesn't work against Real Madrid defenders. Hell, it doesn't work in MLS after he starts to tire out.

At 16...so yes, he's showing flash that he has the raw potential to do it...just need polishing in Europe and voila 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

For every Rooney, Gotze and Wilshire there is a James Vaughan, Freddy Adu, and Mark Platts. Can we please stop comparing a kid that has been dead average against MLS level competition to players like Rooney, Pele, and Pulisic? 

Ironic how u say that and yet you feel that Pulisic already deserves to be compared to Rooney or Pele. Buddy's 18. For all we know he could become the next Freddy Adu

[harrycoyster]

18 minutes ago, canta15 said:

Ironic how u say that and yet you feel that Pulisic already deserves to be compared to Rooney or Pele. Buddy's 18. For all we know he could become the next Freddy Adu

I'm not saying that. Pele is a different class of player to Rooney and Rooney is a different class of player to Pulisic. But it's silly to compare Davies to any of them.

[gigi riva]

I  think   and  Hope  Davies   stays  one  more  year  in  Van  city    and  gets  transferred   to   a  club  like  Ajax  there  they  know  how  to  develop   players  

[jpg75]

14 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

I  think   and  Hope  Davies   stays  one  more  year  in  Van  city    and  gets  transferred   to   a  club  like  Ajax  there  they  know  how  to  develop   players  

He has to stay one more year, he can't transfer outside of Canada, Liberia or Ghana until his 18th bday.

Also, i'd bet the farm he signs at a big English club. I hope he doesn't, but it'll probably happen.

BTW, thinking about comparisons i see some similarities in his stride and athleticism, ball winning too to Paul Pogba. Tall, lanky athlete who runs at defenders and wastes a bunch of opportunities but seems to make shit happen and scores big goals.

[BCM]

Lack of a UK/EU passport may prevent an early move to England, but maybe grounds for a successful appeal if we move a little up the rankings. I don't see this being in his best interests, unless the situation was absolutely perfect for him. I rather agree with @gigi riva that a move to Netherlands would be great at a young age, with a further move up the chain should he progress (is it too much to add "as expected")...

For what it's worth, I don't think Davies is or qualifies as a Ghanaian citizen. He was born in a refugee camp there and anyway I would bet the farm (if I had one) they don't give citizenship on birth to kids of non-PRs/citizens- we are one of the very few countries in the world with this (what I would call silly) policy.

[Acid-Tone]

11 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Guys this is a ridiculous comparison. Pulisic is light years ahead of Davies technically.

Can we wait until he gets an assist or goal against MLS competition before we compare him to one of better players on a top 10 team in the world? 

You're right.  He's no Pulisic.  But he's got 2 years to go for it to be a fair comparison.  What was Pulisic doing 2 years ago?

 

And I'm pretty sure I've already seen Davies score against the Impact, so does that mean we can compare, or not?

[Bertuzzi44]

I agree Pulisic is way ahead of Davies now in a direct comparison. But with regards to technical ability, with Davies being 3 inches taller than Pulisic I wonder if it takes a bit longer for "lankier" players to really develop technically? I dunno, something about having shorter legs just seems to me to be easier to get more touches on the ball haha

[harrycoyster]

30 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said:

You're right.  He's no Pulisic.  But he's got 2 years to go for it to be a fair comparison.  What was Pulisic doing 2 years ago?

Training with the Borussia Dortmund first team, winning player of the first half of the season in the u19 Bundesliga, carrying the US u17s through World Cup qualifying, and was six months from becoming the first attacking option off the bench at one of the very best teams in all of world football.

But yeah, that's nothing compared to a kid who is statistically a low-tier MLS player who scored twice on a French Guiana goalkeeper who wouldn't start in the USL.

Can I just say that I hate the fact that I'm being forced to talk shit on Davies, he's literally my favorite current player. I just hate people setting these unreasonably high expectations for the kid. He is still really raw. Like way more raw Pulisic was at 16 and a half. 

[jpg75]

9 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Training with the Borussia Dortmund first team, winning player of the first half of the season in the u19 Bundesliga, carrying the US u17s through World Cup qualifying, and was six months from becoming the first attacking option off the bench at one of the very best teams 

Straight from wiki:

"In February 2015, Borussia Dortmund signed 16-year-old Pulisic and assigned him first to their U17 squad and in Summer 2015 to the U19. After scoring 10 and assisting 8 in just 15 games with the Dortmund youth teams,^[14]Pulisic was called to join the first team over winter break.^[15]"

So what you are describing is what he did at 17 1/2, not 16 1/2.

[harrycoyster]

2 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Straight from wiki:

"In February 2015, Borussia Dortmund signed 16-year-old Pulisic and assigned him first to their U17 squad and in Summer 2015 to the U19. After scoring 10 and assisting 8 in just 15 games with the Dortmund youth teams,^[14]Pulisic was called to join the first team over winter break.^[15]"

So what you are describing is what he did at 17 1/2, not 16 1/2.

Pulisic played his senior game at Dortmund at 17 1/2. Everything I mentioned happened in at some point in 2015, he turned 17 in September of that year. So he was 16 and 3 months old to 17 and 2 months old during that time period. 

[harrycoyster]

13 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

What the fuck is your problem?

Now stop trolling and go find another thread to piss on.

In all seriousness, this forum clearly has a very optimistic outlook on all things Canadian soccer. While I'm usually fairly rosy about our future, I can't help but react when I see posts comparing Davies to Pele or that the CPL is going to surpass the CFL in a few years or that Brampton is a better soccer city than Dallas. Perhaps I should bite my lip more, but I think some amount of logic needs to be used if we are going to have a worthwhile conversation on a topic.

Not trying to constantly be the contrarian, just tend to look at situations by the numbers.

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Training with the Borussia Dortmund first team, winning player of the first half of the season in the u19 Bundesliga, carrying the US u17s through World Cup qualifying, and was six months from becoming the first attacking option off the bench at one of the very best teams in all of world football.

But yeah, that's nothing compared to a kid who is statistically a low-tier MLS player who scored twice on a French Guiana goalkeeper who wouldn't start in the USL.

Can I just say that I hate the fact that I'm being forced to talk shit on Davies, he's literally my favorite current player. I just hate people setting these unreasonably high expectations for the kid. He is still really raw. Like way more raw Pulisic was at 16 and a half. 

While I agree that Pulisic is a much more polished and complete player than Davies right now, I think you are downplaying Alphonso a little to much.

I mean, regardless of what you think of our opponents goal keeper, he still scored twice on him, at 16 years old, at the Gold Cup. I know that you know that, but I feel myself having to stress that in response to your downplaying of Davies.

He just set a Gold Cup and CanMNT record, at the age of 16, and Pulisic (outstanding as he was at 16), was nowhere near his full national team at the 2015 Gold Cup. Yes I know what you must be thinking, the US is far harder to play for, or Davies wouldn't have been called to the US if you flipped it around. Oh well, lucky for him to be Canadian I guess (feels great to say that)!

I see no reason why Davies can't be at "Pulisic" level in two years, given his incredible potential.  He'd have an absolute mountain to climb to get there, but the sky is the limit.

I think the next key step is scoring regularly in MLS. It is only a matter of time. I think he'll score 2-4 before the season ends. Then suddenly we are taking about a player who played and scored in MLS, Champions League, and Gold Cup vs. A player who was a standout for Dortmond U-19 at the same age.

[MtlMario]

Why are we wasting so much time comparing Davies to Pulisic anyways? Who gives a shit about Pulisic. This is a Davies topic.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I don't think Man U or Liverpool will have any problem getting a work permit for him. Their lawyers are probably drawing up the paperwork as we speak. As much as I'd like to see him go to a club like Dortmund to develop his overall game in Germany, this kid was born to play in the EPL. He's everything those supporters value in player. If he succeeds with one of the big clubs he will become a massive star. This will do more for Canada Soccer than we can possibly imagine. 

[BrennanFan]

The proper comparisons are against previous Canadian teen phenoms like deGuz, Peters, Johnson, Edgar, Hoilett and the like who went to notable European clubs as teens.  Hoilett was 17 when he scored his first goal in the 2nd Bundesliga.

Davies' big advantage over those guys is that he started developing in a first team environment at 15.  He's also avoiding all of the bullshit Canadian kids get thrown at them in Europe, and gets to focus on his football in a supportive environment.  That's priceless. 

[rob.notenboom]

In general, comparisons end up being fairly worthless on here ... comparisons between players, different leagues in the world, different 2nd tiers ... they generally take us nowhere.

Unless of course the desired destination is a mostly baseless ego driven pissing contest. In that case they take us everywhere.

[red card]

8 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

In all seriousness, this forum clearly has a very optimistic outlook on all things Canadian soccer. While I'm usually fairly rosy about our future, I can't help but react when I see posts comparing Davies to Pele or that the CPL is going to surpass the CFL in a few years or that Brampton is a better soccer city than Dallas. Perhaps I should bite my lip more, but I think some amount of logic needs to be used if we are going to have a worthwhile conversation on a topic.

Not trying to constantly be the contrarian, just tend to look at situations by the numbers.

Our optimism is nothing compared to the American hype train for Pulisic and any other joe american who has one good match. If Pulisic had scored 2 goals in his national team debut, there would be some American fanboys who would want to bear his children.

[jpg75]

13 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

But yeah, that's nothing compared to a kid who is statistically a low-tier MLS playerwho scored twice on a French Guiana goalkeeper who wouldn't start in the USL.

.... he's literally my favorite current player.

Just noticed this.

So, the guy is your favourite player but he's statistically below average. So that tells us that either you have poor taste in players or the stats you are referencing are not adequately capturing the contributions that Davies is making to his team. The eyeball test (yours and everyone elses) sees a player coming onto the field who makes things happen, runs at defenders, makes runs to occupy them, wins balls, tracks back etc. but yet he turns the ball over, pass % is low and key passed are lowish. So are we all wrong? Are EPL scouts wrong or are the stats missing something? Is the aggregate measure not weighted properly?

Or, are we all guilty of over-rating him because he plays courageously like so few other Canadians? ...and he's only 16? I could maybe accept this if scouts weren't drooling over him. So that makes me think the new art of Soccer stats still need some fine tweaking.

[harrycoyster]

33 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Just noticed this.

So, the guy is your favourite player but he's statistically below average. So that tells us that either you have poor taste in players or the stats you are referencing are not adequately capturing the contributions that Davies is making to his team.

Or it could be that he's a great kid and great prospect that I really want to succeed even though his play in MLS has been hit and miss. Anybody that watches the Caps on a regular basis will tell you that he has amazing moments and really frustrating moments. Do you think Robbo starts Brek Shea over him most games because he hates Davies or something? Davies has loads of talent and potential, but he can be a major liability at times.

EPL scouts should be interested in him, he has a few elite traits that are rare in world football. I think he's the best prospect we've had in some time and could very easily be an starter in a top league in a few years. He just has some glaring technical holes in his game that I hope he fills in the next year. Then we can start favorably comparing him to established European football superstars.

[Obinna]

58 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Or it could be that he's a great kid and great prospect that I really want to succeed even though his play in MLS has been hit and miss. Anybody that watches the Caps on a regular basis will tell you that he has amazing moments and really frustrating moments. Do you think Robbo starts Brek Shea over him most games because he hates Davies or something? Davies has loads of talent and potential, but he can be a major liability at times.

EPL scouts should be interested in him, he has a few elite traits that are rare in world football. I think he's the best prospect we've had in some time and could very easily be an starter in a top league in a few years. He just has some glaring technical holes in his game that I hope he fills in the next year. Then we can start favorably comparing him to established European football superstars.

What are the technical holes you see?

[Gordon]

Pusilic is really a very good player, a bit overhyped because of his nationality, but still playing in the Bundesliga at a very young age. He also has the advantage of having gotten out of North America and into an academy far superior to Vancouver (or Dallas lol) and that is an advantage Davies won't have unfortunately. We'll see how it plays out, but two years at Dortmund is a huge head start. Davies will be good, but sadly, no European or South American grand parent.

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

What are the technical holes you see?

I'm pretty sure I listed them in detail somewhere earlier in this thread if you want to go search, but here's a summary:

Passing- Davies has a low passing percentage. He has a habit of waiting too long to make a pass. He also isn't very comfortable getting pressed and is easily forced into blind passes into midfield. This is emblematic of a larger issue in his game; he doesn't pick his head up while transitioning from dribbling to passing/crossing. You saw this even in the FG game when Cavallini yelled at him twice for delivering blind crosses. He's also shown that he isn't great at lifting the ball off the ground. He struggles to switch the play and regularly over hits lifted crosses. You'll notice that when shooting, crossing and passing, he tries to keep the ball on the ground, even when the situation calls for more power.

Finishing- Davies generally doesn't have a good shot on him. I'm less concerned about this since it may partially be a confidence thing, but Davies reluctance to lift the ball along hurts his ability to strike from distance. He just isn't much of a threat to cut in and score from the top of the box. He has what I call "Juan Agedelo syndrome"; the tendency to try to walk the ball into a 1v1 with the goalkeeper instead of just opening up you hips and taking chances from decent areas. Davies has taken just 6 shots in MLS this season despite having 20 successful dribbles (beat his defender)...that's crazy low. Again, I hope some of this is fixed by his current form.

Dribbling technique- Davies prefers to touch the ball with his insteps rather than his toe/laces while dribbling. It's not a terrible thing, most soccer players rely on their insteps to control the direction of the ball. The best wingers in the world, however, use their toe/laces when dribbling because it makes your change of direction much more unpredictable. This is something Davies has clearly been working on, but he likely won't ever be a skill dribbler like Dembele or Neymar.

1v1 ability- I mentioned earlier that Davies has 20 successful dribbles in MLS. That number is really good. Like, really good. The issue here is that he has accumulated those dribbles off of one thing, his change of pace. Oh boy what a change of pace it is, but to be successful against the more talented, faster, smarter fullbacks of European football, he's going to need to develop the skill set of more agile players. In MLS, he has been primarily used as a sub because his change of pace is amplified by the tired legs of defenders 70' into a game. When he does start, his dribble percentage drops as the game goes on because he loses the a lot of his burst due to fatigue.

He has some issues with work rate and decision-making as well, but those usually improve greatly over a player's career. The aforementioned issues are things that don't automatically improve with age, though you can assume a 16 year old will get better in those areas; it's just a matter of how much. If he is able to turn these flaws into elite traits you are talking about a world superstar.