Alphonso Davies

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

So will a CPL club compensate a youth or say an academy if they sign one of their players?

Haven't heard any specifics but I wouldn't be surprised if they do or have some system in place where the youth club gets its share. 

[jpg75]

15 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

This actually isn't true. Frazer v. MLS, the court case that challenged the legality of single entity, gave MLS the legal authority to forgo "the standard procedures and operations of the global market for the survivability of the league". It was originally a case over MLS artificially keeping player salaries low due to the lack of free agency, but MLS has used the case in its legal defense against pro/rel, training comp., and solidarity payments. I believe that there is a case being tried soon to try to enact mandatory solidarity payments in US soccer, but it's unlikely to go anywhere. This is because the language that FIFA uses to describe players in regards to solidarity payments is "professionals", which nobody in the North American soccer sphere wants to be a term applied to pre-college age players as it would ruin NCAA eligibility.

FIFA had generally looked the other way on this issue. Solidarity payments are a FIFA regulation, but the rules regarding domestic transfers are left to be enforced by federations. FIFA could, but hasn't yet decided to get involved in the issue.

The rules may get changed soon though as this is starting to hurt MLS clubs. As MLS clubs have no legal ground to stop teams like Schalke and Wolfsburg from raiding their academies as they have in the last few years.

So again, if the club requests payment they are legally entitled to it. If the USSF is denying payments from MLS to a US-based youth club that's their problem. If any Canadian youth club asks for payment from any club in the world who has paid a transfer fee for a player developed at that youth club the payment must be made or there will be legal recourse. 

[Yoginess]

Lots of injuries for the Whitecaps, I think Davies will get a start tonight.

So far he's struggled a bit more with the full 90 minutes. He's never not impressed as a sub but he's had a couple games starting that haven't been the best. 

Proving ground tonight. 

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

So again, if the club requests payment they are legally entitled to it. If the USSF is denying payments from MLS to a US-based youth club that's their problem. If any Canadian youth club asks for payment from any club in the world who has paid a transfer fee for a player developed at that youth club the payment must be made or there will be legal recourse. 

It depends what you mean by "legally entitled". Teams are entitled to compensation via the FIFA statute, but FIFA rules aren't legally binding in Canada. A Canadian youth team being denied payment can't take direct legal action. They can bring up a civil case but aren't likely to win as the solidarity payment rule isn't an ironclad global agreement (pay to play clubs, ghost clubs, NCAA schools and others can be denied payment). The better route is for the youth club to ask the federation to petition FIFA to take action, and FIFA likely would. However, like the USSF, the CSA might hesitate to reach out to FIFA.

Why? The resulting decision would clearly define Canadian participation in the solidarity payment rule. This means that all Canadian clubs will need to pay solidarity payments when signing u23 players who are signing a paid contract. That isn't great business as a country that is about to have a bunch more professional players. More importantly, it could lead to a declaratory judgment on the rule which requires Canadian clubs to pay NCAA clubs (MLS draft picks for example) and P2P clubs.

[Blackdude]

51 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

It depends what you mean by "legally entitled". Teams are entitled to compensation via the FIFA statute, but FIFA rules aren't legally binding in Canada. A Canadian youth team being denied payment can't take direct legal action. They can bring up a civil case but aren't likely to win as the solidarity payment rule isn't an ironclad global agreement (pay to play clubs, ghost clubs, NCAA schools and others can be denied payment). The better route is for the youth club to ask the federation to petition FIFA to take action, and FIFA likely would. However, like the USSF, the CSA might hesitate to reach out to FIFA.

Why? The resulting decision would clearly define Canadian participation in the solidarity payment rule. This means that all Canadian clubs will need to pay solidarity payments when signing u23 players who are signing a paid contract. That isn't great business as a country that is about to have a bunch more professional players. More importantly, it could lead to a declaratory judgment on the rule which requires Canadian clubs to pay NCAA clubs (MLS draft picks for example) and P2P clubs.

But NCAA aren't clubs.

[harrycoyster]

Just now, Blackdude said:

But NCAA aren't clubs.

There isn't an official FIFA ruling as to the status of NCAA teams. Judging by the language of the compensation statute, they have a decent argument to receive compensation. The rule says that compensation must be given to "clubs involved in a player’s training and education". The term "club" is defined nowhere by FIFA, and the only legal case to define the term "club" in relation to FIFA  says a club is "a structured team environment in which football is regularly played". 

[Blackdude]

10 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

There isn't an official FIFA ruling as to the status of NCAA teams. Judging by the language of the compensation statute, they have a decent argument to receive compensation. The rule says that compensation must be given to "clubs involved in a player’s training and education". The term "club" is defined nowhere by FIFA, and the only legal case to define the term "club" in relation to FIFA  says a club is "a structured team environment in which football is regularly played". 

NCAA clubs would need to be members of the USSF which they aren't. So they're the last group of people I'd worry about.

[harrycoyster]

6 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

NCAA clubs would need to be members of the USSF which they aren't. So they're the last group of people I'd worry about.

There are a number of ways NCAA teams could demand compensation if it became beneficial for them to do so, some without even joining USSF directly. Having players play for school-sponsored PDL teams during the college off-season has been thrown around as a possibility, for example.

[dyslexic nam]

I know he is still young, and pretty raw, but last night he drove forward with purpose every single time he had the ball.  It didn't always work out, but as soon as he was subbed in, the Caps had far more attacking drive.  

I don't want to crush him with expectation, but I can't escape the feeling that he will be a huge driving force for the CMNT offense for years to come.  I can't think of another young Canadian prospect that has made me this excited for the future.

[Vince193]

24 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I know he is still young, and pretty raw, but last night he drove forward with purpose every single time he had the ball.  It didn't always work out, but as soon as he was subbed in, the Caps had far more attacking drive.  

I don't want to crush him with expectation, but I can't escape the feeling that he will be a huge driving force for the CMNT offense for years to come.  I can't think of another young Canadian prospect that has made me this excited for the future.

He reminds me of  a younger De Ro who always played with a fearlessness in his step.

[Yoginess]

One of the most positive things I'm seeing from Davies is he gets more and more comfortable each match I see him. His distribution has improved in his game day performances even from early this season. 

It's amazing to think he has yet to tally a single Goal or Assist in all the MLS matches he's played given his level of influence. 

[harrycoyster]

2 minutes ago, Yoginess said:

One of the most positive things I'm seeing from Davies is he gets more and more comfortable each match I see him. His distribution has improved in his game day performances even from early this season. 

It's amazing to think he has yet to tally a single Goal or Assist in all the MLS matches he's played given his level of influence. 

Could have a couple of each in MLS already, unfortunately his finishing and final-third passing are probably the biggest holes in his game. He has plenty of time to develop, and has shown he possesses a great strike and vision. Yet, I have somewhat unwarranted worries that he could join Kekuta Manneh and Erik Hurtado in the "Whitecap winger who was amazing 1v1 but never develops passing and finishing skills" category of player. That being said I can't recall a single MLS player that could finish and pass at a high level at 16.

 

[Club Linesman]

It is absolutely amazing to think this kid is 16 and doing what he is doing in MLS.  If he continues to develop at the rate he has so far he will be a boss for the CMNT in a couple of years and could be the player to take the torch from Hutch as the best player of this generation.

[One American]

Thought he looked really good last night. Quick thinker. Goal-scoring sequence started when he waltzed through two or three defenders in the midfield. Surprised he has two goose-eggs in the stats. But I don't think the players around him are very good. And Techera seems like he needs to hog the ball to be productive. 

[jpg75]

22 minutes ago, One American said:

Thought he looked really good last night. Quick thinker. Goal-scoring sequence started when he waltzed through two or three defenders in the midfield. Surprised he has two goose-eggs in the stats. But I don't think the players around him are very good. And Techera seems like he needs to hog the ball to be productive. 

This. The rest of the Whitecaps skill players are mediocre or worse, which really makes you wonder why someone would want to limit a guy who is probably your best/most dynamic skill player to 30 minutes a game.

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

This. The rest of the Whitecaps skill players are mediocre or worse, which really makes you wonder why someone would want to limit a guy who is probably your best/most dynamic skill player to 30 minutes a game.

Techera can be pretty damn good and Shea has been pleasantly above average. I'd personally be starting Davies every game, but it isn't like his MLS stats show he's a must start. According to WhoScored rankings, he's the 10th ranked player of the 11 players to play over 500 minutes for the Whitecaps so far this year. He might be best utilized as a sub that torments tired defenses with his directness in the second half until he rounds out his game. Borussia Dortmund uses Christian Pulisic in a similar way.

[toontownman]

12 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I know he is still young, and pretty raw, but last night he drove forward with purpose every single time he had the ball.  It didn't always work out, but as soon as he was subbed in, the Caps had far more attacking drive.  

I don't want to crush him with expectation, but I can't escape the feeling that he will be a huge driving force for the CMNT offense for years to come.  I can't think of another young Canadian prospect that has made me this excited for the future.

I don't think anyone could fail to be impressed with Davies so far. He plays almost a decade ahead of his age.He makes the odd rash pass that will get better with experience but he hasn't looked out of place or outside the top 3 players on his team when he has played, I like the way the caps are handling him right now. It is a tough call to ease him in and not over expose him physically and mentally to hopefully prevent a late career burnout like Adu or Michael Owen. Tough decision especially when he is capable and arguably better than many teammates already. There is nothing to say what happens in 10 years, as a club do you get the most out of him while he is hot? I'm happy they are easing him in. 

I was actually most impressed with Tesho last night tbh. He was at the heart of every good Dallas move, played really well up top. Neat and tidy on the ball, brings teammates into play and has a good eye for the pass. His height causes lots of problems and he runs into the right pockets of space. Further he was literally everywhere in the first half and probably their best defender on set pieces. Hope he gets some serious consideration and minutes at the Gold Cup.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Last night Robbo put Alphonso in the middle, did not let him run from the side. He sacrified room and speed for the tension he brings to where he has the ball. I thought it was a decent move, though he had less space to break free. 

He was also fouled, the rival deserved a yellow, on a play as he passed off and broke forwards. Watching him was way more dynamic than watching all others for Caps excepting Techera.

The whole game Tchani was a disaster in the last pass, he was an embarrassment going forwards. Techera was good, the best clearly, and also was dedicated on defence (take note the rest of attacking players!), but you could not play to his wing always. So this is what could happen: Davies as attacking mid, linking with Montero in attack. Though I still think he is better starting with more space, from the side, and breaking in with less pressure from defences.

[jpg75]

14 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

 I'd personally be starting Davies every game, but it isn't like his MLS stats show he's a must start. According to WhoScored rankings, he's the 10th ranked player of the 11 players to play over 500 minutes for the Whitecaps so far this year.

Do you actually believe that or are you just playing Devil's advocate?

[harrycoyster]

40 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Do you actually believe that or are you just playing Devil's advocate?

Just playing DA, like I said I'd be starting him. Was just pointing out that there is an argument that he is better off the bench that I don't necessarily disagree with. 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

On June 18, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Yoginess said:

One of the most positive things I'm seeing from Davies is he gets more and more comfortable each match I see him. His distribution has improved in his game day performances even from early this season. 

It's amazing to think he has yet to tally a single Goal or Assist in all the MLS matches he's played given his level of influence. 

If we were to count the number of penalties that davies has drawn as assists then he would have a couple for sure. We have also seen how he can finish in the Canadian Championship. Once Davies gets his first goal he will do much better i think. Maybe he just feels the pressure a little bit because he hasn't produced in MLS. Once he gets one they will just keep coming.

[Vince193]

I wonder what his future is. Robbo used him in a box to box role in central midfield last game and he was pretty good, but most of his reps so far have been as a winger. 

[harrycoyster]

33 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

If we were to count the number of penalties that davies has drawn as assists then he would have a couple for sure.

Davies hasn't been responsible for any of the Whitecaps 3 penalties in MLS play this year. They were drawn by Bolanos, Shea and Montero IIRC.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

Davies hasn't been responsible for any of the Whitecaps 3 penalties in MLS play this year. They were drawn by Bolanos, Shea and Montero IIRC.

Last year i believe he drew two penalties in MLS play. Or maybe it was just one, the other might have been in the Canadian Championship. 

[Yohan]

I agree with Robbo limiting Davies's mins. He's just 16. A full season of MLS, plus mins in Gold Cup and other CMNT games means he burns out too quick late in the season. Once he has a full season of MLS under his belt and continues to develop his stamina, he'll be 90min player every game.

Too many wunderkinds get too many mins too fast, burn out, hit the mental wall and never get over it, killing their career.