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shermanator

Ballou Tabla

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Meh, let's wait and see what happens. He's cap-tied to us at the youth level so he'd have to file a one-time switch to play for Cote d'Ivoire. He has yet to turn down a call to our U20 team either, so the longer he's part of the program the more we can work on him. Also, i can't wait until Drogba leaves Montreal. Having a guy like that around can put ideas into a kids head no matter how grateful the kid is to Canada.

Edited by jpg75

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I think it is worth taking (or at least inviting) a couple of young, promising players like this to the Gold Cup.  Let's face it - we just called up a number of guys who play for small clubs or are unattached, and that was for make or break WC qualifiers.  And this was not a unique occurrence - we regularly take guys like this to friendlies and major tournaments. Are a couple of young hotshots - playing somewhere between USL and MLS level - really going to be a huge downgrade?  

And if if they are even remotely on par with some of the other members of the squad that they might displace, we not only cap-tie someone with arguably a much higher ceiling than the person they replace on the squad (who has not gone past that level of play despite being more senior) but also start to see them in context, start to establish a familiarity between them and the squad, and give them valuable bug-game experience. 

I agree with jdub - we need to be more proactive about... tactical (binding) player recruitment. Maybe they peak early and don't fulfil their potential.  But maybe they become the next Begovic or whore-caliber player - and we don't have the luxury of discarding guys like that, or letting them get picked off by bigger footy nations.

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47 minutes ago, JDub said:

Saying that, there has been a lot of criticism towards the CSA in the past for waiting too long to cap tie a player or people thinking that the CSA has no idea who the player is.   Basically waiting until it is too late, until he has drawn the eye of another country he is eligible for.  We don't really have the depth to wait and see if some players develop into the players we think they may become.  Once they develop into that player and the CSA/MNT manager think it is time to cap tie him it may be too late at that point.  Once they receive interest from another country we once again become second fiddle. 

Absolutely, Canada needs to be proactive and cap tie when it makes sense to do so. But the CSA can't cap tie anyone for 10 months, so until that Gold Cup squad is announced everyone can stop panicking. The conversation about cap tying is really moot until next spring, and we will see what Tabla's career is like at that time. 

I wouldn't have any issue with the CSA calling Tabla up for a friendly between now and then, but if that's not enough to get his commitment then there's not much the CSA can do about it.

In Ivory Coast's latest squad, their more youthful midfielders play for Inter Milan and Granada (on loan from Chelsea), and their youngest forward plays for Bordeaux. USL is nowhere near that level of play. Their depth is largely domestic based so maybe he would be at a higher level of play than that, but I don't have any clue as to what the standard of play is like in the Cote d'Ivoire Premier Division.

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1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Absolutely, Canada needs to be proactive and cap tie when it makes sense to do so. But the CSA can't cap tie anyone for 10 months, so until that Gold Cup squad is announced everyone can stop panicking. The conversation about cap tying is really moot until next spring, and we will see what Tabla's career is like at that time. 

I wouldn't have any issue with the CSA calling Tabla up for a friendly between now and then, but if that's not enough to get his commitment then there's not much the CSA can do about it.

In Ivory Coast's latest squad, their more youthful midfielders play for Inter Milan and Granada (on loan from Chelsea), and their youngest forward plays for Bordeaux. USL is nowhere near that level of play. Their depth is largely domestic based so maybe he would be at a higher level of play than that, but I don't have any clue as to what the standard of play is like in the Cote d'Ivoire Premier Division.

The real danger is seeing him file a one time switch to play for a youth squad twice, then forever see him not called up anywhere. It would be a total waste, but it seems preferable to some (*cough*Bunbury) 

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The same people who said that not calling Tomori for the last WCQ matches was a good choice are the same that are saying that Tabla shoudln't be called because he's only a youth player.

If you cannot judge a players quality and/or potential it's very hard to have a proper discussion. Both Tomori and Tabla are already superior to a lot of players who're currently called into the MNT let alone what they'll achieve in the future. 

I've said it before and will say it again. Not calling these players for the WCQ was a huge mistake. What's the point in having Ricketts, Jackson, Dixon in the team or Hainault, Jakovic when you can have these guys? These guys are going to be proper players and Canada didn't have the balls to give them the trust, support and confidence of playing them in WCQ instead of picking players who add nothing now nor in the future because they're simply not good enough.

Edited by SCF08

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20 minutes ago, SCF08 said:

I've said it before and will say it again. Not calling these players for the WCQ was a huge mistake. What's the point in having Ricketts, Jackson, Dixon in the team or Hainault, Jakovic when you can have these guys? These guys are going to be proper players and Canada didn't have the balls to give them the trust, support and confidence of playing them in WCQ instead of picking players who add nothing now nor in the future because they're simply not good enough.

Yeah, damn right!  We totally should've called Tomori instead of Ricketts or Jackson.  Needing a goal late in Honduras, we could've had him play up top with Larin!   He probably would've scored down in El Salvador too!  CSA OUT!

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1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Yeah, damn right!  We totally should've called Tomori instead of Ricketts or Jackson.  Needing a goal late in Honduras, we could've had him play up top with Larin!   He probably would've scored down in El Salvador too!  CSA OUT!

You're right buddy. Scoring important goals is clearly something only his royal highness Ricketts can do and he's surely proven that over the last few years. How stupid am I. Sure Chelsea will be after him soon.

Having Tabla in the team instead of Ricketts and Tomori instead of any of the rubbish defenders that are playing at the moment would've massively improved the team.....let alone what it would've done for the future. 

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1 hour ago, SCF08 said:

You're right buddy. Scoring important goals is clearly something only his royal highness Ricketts can do and he's surely proven that over the last few years. How stupid am I. Sure Chelsea will be after him soon.

Having Tabla in the team instead of Ricketts and Tomori instead of any of the rubbish defenders that are playing at the moment would've massively improved the team.....let alone what it would've done for the future. 

I mean maybe Tabla instead of Dixon? Ricketts has played well with TFC, and he's a good late game sub. Wouldn't want to omit him from the roster right now.

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In the roster absolutely. Tabla should also be ahead of Ricketts in the pecking order for playing time on the pitch as well at all times. Same as Tomori who should've been ahead for any of the defenders. Too late now unfortunately. 

All the focus has been on rubbish players who haven't contributed seriously and will never contribute seriously to the National Team. Subbing Larin out of the game is another example. He's another guy who will be instrumental in the future but just simply gets taken off after a game where he gets little to no service. Once the team starts attacking he gets taken off for complete and utter rubbish.
 

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There's a temptation to pretty much call the U20 squad and sprinkle on some younger veterans, but there is something to be said about building an expectation of winning (or at least not getting blown out) that is important for the programs morale. We don't want to return to the post-Honduras squads where people were refusing callups left right and center

That's not an argument against calling Tabla, just saying that you have to be choosey about the couple of young guys you bring to cap tie. If we try the cap tie ten guys and get blown out, they may just turn into Cavallini types anyway 

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27 minutes ago, SCF08 said:

In the roster absolutely. Tabla should also be ahead of Ricketts in the pecking order for playing time on the pitch as well at all times. Same as Tomori who should've been ahead for any of the defenders. Too late now unfortunately. 

All the focus has been on rubbish players who haven't contributed seriously and will never contribute seriously to the National Team. Subbing Larin out of the game is another example. He's another guy who will be instrumental in the future but just simply gets taken off after a game where he gets little to no service. Once the team starts attacking he gets taken off for complete and utter rubbish.
 

Are you implying that Ricketts is a rubbish player that hasn't contributed seriously? You know he has the most goals scored for any active CanMNT player? I also do not think Tabla has earned the spot ahead of Ricketts with his level of play and I also think he has not earned the role with his comments on his commitment to Canada. If he is only there to cap him then I am all for it.

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4 hours ago, SCF08 said:

You're right buddy. Scoring important goals is clearly something only his royal highness Ricketts can do and he's surely proven that over the last few years. How stupid am I. Sure Chelsea will be after him soon.

Having Tabla in the team instead of Ricketts and Tomori instead of any of the rubbish defenders that are playing at the moment would've massively improved the team.....let alone what it would've done for the future. 

Yes, but calling them means sweet flip all.  They actually have to play in the game for it to mean anything.  Were we supposed to replace Henry with Tomori while we were 2-1 down in San Pedro Sula?  That would've been interesting. 

And even then that's if they accept the call.  Tomori was always going to play for England the first chance he got.  If he even had a sniff of playing for them (and by this time he had already been called into the U19 or U21 team) he would've turned down the call.

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2 hours ago, One American said:

Call Tabla. You don't have to overrun the team with teenagers. Just start to integrate a couple. 

That is my view.  No mass revolution required.  Just get one or two key guys in the squad, and if they accept the call start to integrate them into the team - oh yeah, and get them on the field for a while in a Gold Cup game where we seem to be somewhat in control.  And not for a 91st minute sub in the last game - give them a chance to play some minutes.

 

I realize that our lone GC win was the high point of the last couple of decades, but we need to take the long view.  And part of that should be taking the obvious and necessary steps to deepen our player pool by any means at our disposal.  Taking a couple of talented youngsters to a tournament (at the expense of unattached players or those not really much better despite much more experience) seems like a pretty low risk strategy.

 

Again, this is not about a cynical 2-minute cap tie and then no more call ups for years.  It is about an honest effort to get folks that could be mainstays in the next cycle integrated into the team.

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Another example of the need for a Canada B team. Have players like Talba playing in friendlies with the Maple Leaf at international breaks so if he does warrant a call-up for the Gold Cup, he won't feel out of place and might be more prone to accepting the call.

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1 hour ago, Oranje said:

Another example of the need for a Canada B team. Have players like Talba playing in friendlies with the Maple Leaf at international breaks so if he does warrant a call-up for the Gold Cup, he won't feel out of place and might be more prone to accepting the call.

Agreed. I think there is something to be said for promoting some camaraderie between the players. At the least, having a good camp experience with teammates will make it somewhat tougher to spurn Canada later down the line. This was the approach the Jurgen Klinsmann took with Julian Green leading up to the World Cup (according to an ESPN documentary). 

There's value in it, even if you don't cap tie them by playing them. It's much easier to turn down a group of people you haven't bonded with at all.

Edited by kohanz

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18 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Yes, but calling them means sweet flip all.  They actually have to play in the game for it to mean anything.  Were we supposed to replace Henry with Tomori while we were 2-1 down in San Pedro Sula?  That would've been interesting. 

And even then that's if they accept the call.  Tomori was always going to play for England the first chance he got.  If he even had a sniff of playing for them (and by this time he had already been called into the U19 or U21 team) he would've turned down the call.

How about starting Tomori ahead of Henry? That's what should've happened. Tomori is far superior already to any Canadian defender. Why are you talking about subbing him on? Are you just looking at his age without ever seeing him play?

Tomori was in the Canada U20 squad less than 6 months ago so it's not like he's been lost a long time ago. He should've been called up to the senior team a lot earlier. Age is only a number but Tomori and Tabla are 2 top class players potentially and Canada should've at least made an effort to bring them into the senior squad and make them feel that they're important and the future of Canadian football.

Davies is another example of someone who is potentially a very very good player so bring him in. He's ofcourse not going to pick Liberia over Canada ever but the idea is the same as with Tabla and Tomori. He's got massive potential and can be a future star of the Canadian team. The chances that he'll not be a top 3 Canadian player are very very slim so give him the spot ahead of a guy like Ledgerwood who's just bang average and who will always stay average.

But maybe I'm wrong and it was the right decision to keep picking Jakovic, Hainault and whoever else over and over and over again ahead of Tomori so that he had every reason to pick an English youth team ahead of the Canadian youth team. 
 

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20 hours ago, Ruffian said:

Are you implying that Ricketts is a rubbish player that hasn't contributed seriously? You know he has the most goals scored for any active CanMNT player? I also do not think Tabla has earned the spot ahead of Ricketts with his level of play and I also think he has not earned the role with his comments on his commitment to Canada. If he is only there to cap him then I am all for it.

Ricketts is a rubbish player. The guy can run and that's it. No tactical awareness, no composure, no technique.....he's awful. He can be the most scoring active CanMNT player but that doesn't mean anything. He has by far the most caps/minutes of any attacking player so it would be embarassing if he wasn't. He has never seriously contributed against decent opposition or in important times.

Tabla is a superior player in every footballing aspect compared to Ricketts already....let alone what Tabla could achieve in the future. It's truly incredible that you can't see that and want to discuss otherwise.

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30 minutes ago, SCF08 said:

 It's truly incredible that you can't see that and want to discuss otherwise.

I never said anything like this. I just stated my opinion on Ricketts being a rubbish player. I agree Ricketts has huge limitations and that it is Likely* that Tabla will be a better player, but at the moment he is just a prospect with no proof that he will fulfil this projection. I doubt there are many coaches (who are much more knowledgeable than myself) that would put Tabla above Ricketts at the moment. To me, Ricketts is a guy who is competing for a bench spot and a sub role. He will likely lose that role as some* of our prospects and younger players take that role from him, hopefully quite quickly.

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2 hours ago, SCF08 said:

Tabla is a superior player in every footballing aspect compared to Ricketts already....let alone what Tabla could achieve in the future. It's truly incredible that you can't see that and want to discuss otherwise.

With all due respect to the player and your position, just what has Tabla accomplished as a professional? 

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5 hours ago, SCF08 said:

Ricketts is a rubbish player. The guy can run and that's it. No tactical awareness, no composure, no technique.....he's awful. He can be the most scoring active CanMNT player but that doesn't mean anything. He has by far the most caps/minutes of any attacking player so it would be embarassing if he wasn't. He has never seriously contributed against decent opposition or in important times.

Tabla is a superior player in every footballing aspect compared to Ricketts already....let alone what Tabla could achieve in the future. It's truly incredible that you can't see that and want to discuss otherwise.

"Tabla is superior to Ricketts in everyway" Except scoring goals in the MLS

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