Ballou Tabla

[MtlMario]

19 minutes ago, Rheo said:

No why keep up an idiotic argument (on both sides) going.  We're not going to change each other's mind and I've got more important things to put my energy to on here.  I apologize for letting the debate get bad on my part, it shouldn't get like that.  I still think you're horribly misguided and wrong but it's agree to disagree.  

Right, let's change the subject ( even though you're horribly misguided and wrong)

[MtlMario]

7 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Sounds like we have a couple of "dickheads" in this thread.

Where are they?

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, Rheo said:

No why keep up an idiotic argument (on both sides) going.  We're not going to change each other's mind and I've got more important things to put my energy to on here.  I apologize for letting the debate get bad on my part, it shouldn't get like that.  I still think you're horribly misguided and wrong but it's agree to disagree.  

I think we can all agree that Canada (the nation) has a multicultural policy and the CSA will subsequently lose a lot of talent to other nations so long as this policy continues.

We should not be surprised that some kids who grow up (or are even born here) are going to want to play for other nations, whether we like it or not.

My personal opinion is that Canada's multiculturalism policy is important for the growth of Soccer in this country, but harmful to the national program. 

I am not happy about defections as a Canada fan, but I understand it. That doesn't mean I can't be critical of their decision, as a fan. 

As voyageurs we are nationalistic, naturally. The issue of defections is definitely interesting, as it shows how nationalism and multiculturalism can be in direct conflict.

Another thing we can all agree on: Soccer's popularity is largely driven by the immigrants who landed in Canada as a result of Canada's multiculturalism policy.  

My own two cents.

 

7 hours ago, Markus said:

I can't blame Ballou if he doesn't choose us. He has a career of 10-15 years to weigh up. IC have qualified for the last 3 WCs and look like qualifying for 2018. That would be 4/4 of the last WCs. We can't even make the Hex FFS.

Of course we hate it. I hate it. We spend our time on message boards about Canada soccer because we love the game and our country. It sucks but the rules are what they are. 

I'm sure many will disagree and I'm fine with that but just because your family emigrates here and you grow up playing here doesn't mean you owe it to us to represent our soccer team. Is there really a superstar sitting on the sidelines because Ballou took his under 20 spot? 

I'm sure I've said it before but all we can do is support the guys (like Arfield and Hoilett and Davies thank god) who want to wear the red jersey. It seems OZ and the CSA reached out as best they could. He has yet to decide, though it doesn't look great for us.

From a Voyageurs POV, it's like worrying about the weather. There's no point. It's gonna be what it is... but man are we due for some sunny days. 

 

There could be. I don't think we can definitely say there isn't.

In fact, I think the opposite is true. There are A LOT of players who could play on our national youth teams, but don't (because let's face it, you can't select everyone). That is not me engaging in baseless speculation either, this is my opinion based on my experience playing in National All Star tournaments. A lot of very good players who don't make it.

Obviously, the biggest example was Owen Hargreaves who was never selected to our youth national team despite captaining the Alberta provincial team.

Even if you change the scale, you will see that the same thing is true for the provincial teams (at least the "big four" anyways). Look at Cyle Larin who never played on an Ontario provincial team at any level. He was very much a superstar sitting on the sidelines for a very long time.

Not saying he missed out because an eventual defector took his spot, but I just want to illustrate how it could happen. Cyle got his break in the NCAA, but for many players getting a youth national team call is their "break".

Edited June 20, 2017 by Obinna

[Yoginess]

As the smaller nation, we can always tell players they'll never be a big part of the 'other' national team but I often wonder how JDG2 feels. He would have been a huge part of our program and I believe would have pushed us into the HEX (maybe not a world cup spot though), but instead he went into a program in which he is a very small piece but he got to play minutes in a World Cup Quarter Final (and Semis IIRC). 

I have to imagine he feels he made the right decision purely from a football stand point. How many players get to say they did that. 

I've only ever known Canada to be my home, but I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who has had two homes. It's easy for Davies, who came here young and was escaping something terrible. But if I had left Canada at the age of 12 to live in Norway for example, because my parents thought it would be better for my education, I can't imagine I would lose touch with Canada that quickly. Even if I was integrated with Norwegian national programs for what ever, I would still want to represent Canada.

Also I wish Tabla would stop smiling every time the Ivory Coast is mentioned. It makes me sad.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Yoginess

[BuzzAndSting]

19 minutes ago, Yoginess said:

As the smaller nation, we can always tell players they'll never be a big part of the 'other' national team but I often wonder how JDG2 feels. He would have been a huge part of our program and I believe would have pushed us into the HEX (maybe not a world cup spot though), but instead he went into a program in which he is a very small piece but he got to play minutes in a World Cup Quarter Final (and Semis IIRC). 

I have to imagine he feels he made the right decision purely from a football stand point. How many players get to say they did that. 

I've only ever known Canada to be my home, but I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who has had two homes. It's easy for Davies, who came here young and was escaping something terrible. But if I had left Canada at the age of 12 to live in Norway for example, because my parents thought it would be better for my education, I can't imagine I would lose touch with Canada that quickly. Even if I was integrated with Norwegian national programs for what ever, I would still want to represent Canada.

Also I wish Tabla would stop smiling every time the Ivory Coast is mentioned. It makes me sad.

I was thinking about this the other day. What if he's smiling because he knows he's going to choose Canada and he finds all the hysteria entertaining?

[Obinna]

58 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I was thinking about this the other day. What if he's smiling because he knows he's going to choose Canada and he finds all the hysteria entertaining?

That would be quite the plot twist. Sadly I doubt that is the case.

[Yoginess]

Just for clarification, Tabla would not have to file a one-time switch to play for Ivory Coast correct? because he was eligible to play for them at the time he represented Canada at the youth level?

[Obinna]

52 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

I don't want to engage in the debate because I think everybody is pretty entrenched in their view. But I will just make one post to give my view.

The decision about which country to play for is a very individual one. It can depend on so many things, including heritage. If the CSA wants to ensure that kids in our youth programmes are committed to Canada then they should look into ways to ensure it (not holding my breath). But the best carrot of all would be a successful national team and that is the way I look at it.

I'm as disappointed as anybody when a good player who could help us chooses another country. But I understand that it is their decision, not mine, and it affects them far more than it affects me. Does that mean I won't join in with childish name calling and insults and chants at games? Absolutely not! But in the end I respect their decision and would rather spend most of my energy supporting the players who deserve it.

I think this is the biggest factor. Fortunately we are on the right track. 

If we can make the World Cup before we host (if that even comes to fruition), it will really lay the framework we need to change public opinion.

On the flip side, if our first participation in is an decades an automatic qualification, I don't think we'll have the public backing sadly. The average Canadian is not going to feel we are there on merit. It won't give people any good reason to back Canada over their team of origin (or England, as many ethnic Canadians default to).  

Conversely, if we qualify for 2022 it will give us a much stronger backing in 2026. The storyline will be different and sure we will be there via hosting, but people may see us as a "World Cup" team with back-to-back participations. 

If we can qualify for Qatar and not embarrass ourselves, I think we'll have enough momentum to change the course of defects for many many years, as it will ensure back-to-back World Cup participation. 

I don't think we need to become World beaters for the defections to dry up. I think we simply need to be a respectable team who qualify more often than not, and have at least a fighting chance of getting out of the group stage. That is basically what Ivory Coast are, funny enough.

*I should also add that I do not expect many people to abandon support for top teams in favour of Canada, if they have a genuine Italian or Brazil origin, for example, but as for the supporters of the lesser teams, I think you'd see those people turn to Canada quickly as soon as we become respectable and not a joke.

This is what has happened to Venezuela, as has been explained to me by several Venezuelans. Venezuela is not as diverse as Canada, but you'd be surprised just how diverse it is, and many people would support their country of ethnic origin or pick their favourite South American team during the World Cup, but Venezuela improved until they hit a threshold and now people actually wear national team jerseys with pride, which never happened in the past. Yes, they still have never qualified (unlike us), but I think strong Copa America results in the recent past was sufficient to get the public on board in their case. CA is high profile unlike the Gold Cup - in our case it will take multiple WC qualifications*

On a side note, I am very curious what will become of WCQ for 2026 in CONCACAF, given 3 teams would qualify automatically.  

 

Edited June 20, 2017 by Obinna

[jpg75]

2 hours ago, Yoginess said:

Just for clarification, Tabla would not have to file a one-time switch to play for Ivory Coast correct? because he was eligible to play for them at the time he represented Canada at the youth level?

He would have to switch, he is cap-tied at the youth level for us having played in official matches at U17 qualifiers in 2015. 

[Obinna]

Tabla was decent against TFC last night in the first leg of the Voyageurs Cup Final.

Caused a few problems with his pace and dribbling, but never generated any scoring chances for himself or his teammates, so from that perspective, he wasn't much of an impact (excuse the pun). However, considering he is only 18, yet managed to at least gave Toronto something else to think about outside of Piatti and Dzemaili, I would say it was a decent night for him personally.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Obinna

[Yoginess]

On 6/20/2017 at 6:18 PM, jpg75 said:

He would have to switch, he is cap-tied at the youth level for us having played in official matches at U17 qualifiers in 2015. 

So if he accepts a call up, he gone?

[BrennanFan]

8 minutes ago, Yoginess said:

So if he accepts a call up, he gone?

as per the current fifa rules, yes

[Dominic94]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

as per the current fifa rules, yes

1 and done 

[Club Linesman]

The Wizard of Oz is no dummy.  He is probably sending Tabla subliminal messages that have an Ivory Coast flag and the phrase one and done shortly thereafter.

[jpg75]

The fact he says he's close to a decision makes me a little bit optimistic because he's much closer to a call-up for Canada than he is for IC. The only curve ball is if he really, really wants to play for IC he might just decide to file the switch and play for their U20 team in the next cycle to get noticed for the Sr. team.

[Dominic94]

24 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

The fact he says he's close to a decision makes me a little bit optimistic because he's much closer to a call-up for Canada than he is for IC. The only curve ball is if he really, really wants to play for IC he might just decide to file the switch and play for their U20 team in the next cycle to get noticed for the Sr. team.

When did he say that ?

[harrycoyster]

18 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

The fact he says he's close to a decision makes me a little bit optimistic because he's much closer to a call-up for Canada than he is for IC. The only curve ball is if he really, really wants to play for IC he might just decide to file the switch and play for their U20 team in the next cycle to get noticed for the Sr. team.

The Ivory Coast is currently going through a terrible generation of domestic players. So bad that they have recently put a large emphasis on pitching dual national players to sign for the country. Marc Wilmots, their new head coach, has gotten former French nationals Jeremie Boga, Jean Philippe Gbamin, Joris Gnagnon and Maxwel Cornet to join the program in the last few months.

I don't think Tabla has done enough to draw Wilmots attention, but considering the Drogba factor, it's not impossible Tabla gets called up for the Ivory Coast's relitively easy home and away against Gabon later this summer.

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, Dominic94 said:

When did he say that ?

When did he say he was close to a decision? I think it was @MtlMario who saw an interview with him on RDS. It's probably a couple pages back.

[jpg75]

3 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

The Ivory Coast is currently going through a terrible generation of domestic players. So bad that they have recently put a large emphasis on pitching dual national players to sign for the country. Marc Wilmots, their new head coach, has gotten former French nationals Jeremie Boga, Jean Philippe Gbamin, Joris Gnagnon and Maxwel Cornet to join the program in the last few months.

I don't think Tabla has done enough to draw Wilmots attention, but considering the Drogba factor, it's not impossible Tabla gets called up for the Ivory Coast's relitively easy home and away against Gabon later this summer.

I wouldn't say the domestic talent is terrible, there are a few pretty good Ivorian born and raised players coming up. But anyways, they'll always recruit the French kids who are just-not-quite-good-enough for Les Bleus because they're better than 90% of the domestic talent.

As far as Tabla, i seriously doubt he's getting an IC (edit: Sr. call-up) call-up in the next few years until he leaves Montreal for Bologna or wherever. Wilmots will show Gabon respect because anything can happen in CAF and Gabon are not that bad.

Edited June 23, 2017 by jpg75

[A_Gagne]

6 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

as per the current fifa rules, yes

As I understand it, even prior to playing his first match with them, he would have to file his one time switch. So if he does make the decision to try his luck and play for them, it would probably even be months before his first match that he would have to file his switch.

[BuzzAndSting]

4 minutes ago, A_Gagne said:

As I understand it, even prior to playing his first match with them, he would have to file his one time switch. So if he does make the decision to try his luck and play for them, it would probably even be months before his first match that he would have to file his switch.

Assuming he hasn't already started that process. It would make sense if he was anticipating the end of the "switch" process and that's what he was hinting was coming soon. Although why would OZ have met with him and mentioned the door was open if that was the case.

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, A_Gagne said:

As I understand it, even prior to playing his first match with them, he would have to file his one time switch. So if he does make the decision to try his luck and play for them, it would probably even be months before his first match that he would have to file his switch.

 

This process rarely takes more than a month outside of cases where eligibility needs to be established by finding a lost relative or some other shenanigans. Kenny Saief filed his one-time switch from Israel to the US during the last week of May and it was approved earlier today. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

 

This process rarely takes more than a month outside of cases where eligibility needs to be established by finding a lost relative or some other shenanigans. Kenny Saief filed his one-time switch from Israel to the US during the last week of May and it was approved earlier today. 

Yeah, but Trump had to put it on the agenda on his first trip abroad, you can't attribute that just to FIFA.

[Bertuzzi44]

It's really too bad Tabla will not be at this year's Gold Cup. No other chance to cap-tie him for literally years, i.e., prepare for this saga to drag on...

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Assuming he hasn't already started that process. It would make sense if he was anticipating the end of the "switch" process and that's what he was hinting was coming soon. Although why would OZ have met with him and mentioned the door was open if that was the case.

Very interesting. You have to wonder though, if he was indeed close to a decision, and that decision was to play for Canada, why wouldn't he be on the preliminary GC roster? Doesn't make much sense to rule yourself out of the only significant games Canada will play in the next few years if you are "close".