Ballou Tabla

[Obinna]

Contact with Ivory Coast and an Ivory Coast call up are two separate things.

The Ivory Coast is likely in contact with hundreds of players who are not yet capped. It makes sense for them to establish contact with all the players who can potentially play for them.

Until he accepts a call, i'm not going to worry about it. 

Question: Does he have to file a one-time switch to play for Ivory Coast in a senior or youth friendly? 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Obinna

[harrycoyster]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Question: Does he have to file a one-time switch to play for Ivory Coast in a senior or youth friendly? 

Yes, because he played in the 2015 CONCACAF u17 tournament for us.

[MtlMario]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Contact with Ivory Coast and an Ivory Coast call up are two separate things.

The Ivory Coast is likely in contact with hundreds of players who are not yet capped. It makes sense for them to establish contact with all the players who can potentially play for them.

Until he accepts a call, i'm not going to worry about it. 

Question: Does he have to file a one-time switch to play for Ivory Coast in a senior or youth friendly? 

I agree it's 2 separate things, I just mentioned it FYI and I didn't like that pause and that smile when he answered and that a decision will come soon.

[MtlMario]

And I lose respect for players who only use our youth setup just for their own benefit.

Edited June 17, 2017 by MtlMario

[harrycoyster]

28 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

And I lose respect for players who only use our youth setup just for their own benefit.

Do you have respect for Juan Cordova who came up through Chilean youth academies?

Do you think Tomori shouldn't consider Canada since he is developing in the English setup?

Would you lose respect for Bryan Cristante if he chose Canada over Italy?

These are legitimate questions, I've love to hear your answers.

[BuzzAndSting]

27 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Do you have respect for Juan Cordova who came up through Chilean youth academies?

Do you think Tomori shouldn't consider Canada since he is developing in the English setup?

Would you lose respect for Bryan Cristante if he chose Canada over Italy?

These are legitimate questions, I've love to hear your answers.

Simple. I respect Cordova, he was never going to make the Chilean national team, he's not turning anyone down. I will respect Tomori and Cristante regardless of what they do because neither grew up in Canada and both were long shots to ever play for us. I won't respect Tabla if he chooses Ivory Coast because he grew up in Canada and has played many times for our youth teams. 

[harrycoyster]

3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Simple. I respect Cordova, he was never going to make the Chilean national team, he's not turning anyone down. I will respect Tomori and Cristante regardless of what they do because neither grew up in Canada and both were long shots to ever play for us. I won't respect Tabla if he chooses Ivory Coast because he grew up in Canada and has played many times for our youth teams. 

Wouldn't Tomori and Cristante be just as bad as Tabla if they choose us over the countries that "made" them?

[Complete Homer]

13 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Wouldn't Tomori and Cristante be just as bad as Tabla if they choose us over the countries that "made" them?

Yes, if England/Italy actually want them

This false equivalency has been addressed over and over again

[Levi Oakey]

53 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Do you have respect for Juan Cordova who came up through Chilean youth academies?

Do you think Tomori shouldn't consider Canada since he is developing in the English setup?

Would you lose respect for Bryan Cristante if he chose Canada over Italy?

These are legitimate questions, I've love to hear your answers.

Question, do Juan Cordova, Fikayo Tomori, or Bryan Cristante receive federal funding from Chile, England or Italy? Or were the clubs responsible for their payment?

Tabla received the highest federal funding we could give him since he was 15. He has been part of every youth setup and directly compensated for his participation, not just for the youth teams, but for being a Canadian professional. 

[harrycoyster]

6 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said:

Question, do Juan Cordova, Fikayo Tomori, or Bryan Cristante receive federal funding from Chile, England or Italy? Or were the clubs responsible for their payment?

Tabla received the highest federal funding we could give him since he was 15. He has been part of every youth setup and directly compensated for his participation, not just for the youth teams, but for being a Canadian professional. 

Agree with this argument @Complete Homer? 

[BuzzAndSting]

48 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Wouldn't Tomori and Cristante be just as bad as Tabla if they choose us over the countries that "made" them?

If they end up choosing Canada but are wanted by England and Italy respectively? Then yes they would be as bad as Tabla to an English or Italian fan, but not to me, I'm a Canadian fan. I would be confused but grateful!

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

Agree with this argument @Complete Homer? 

Not exactly sure how that meshes with my statement, but since you're asking I'll give my opinion

In general, I think people should play for the country they identify the strongest with, unless they are deemed to be surplus (ex. Arfield). I think people who go as far as saying people have some sort of moral obligation to any particular nation are going a bit too far, but I think it is entirely fair to say that it is less classy to cynically play for a country that has better chances at advancing your career.

These discussions tend to go sideways because people generally group "fencesitters" into one big group, instead of recognizing that there are several groups that each have different arguments associated with them. Players born and raised in Canada that went abroad will likely have very different identity perceptions than those who were born in Canada but raised elsewhere. So will players born abroad but raised in Canada, or players born and raised elsewhere but become naturalized citizens. Directly comparing Cristante to Tabla is a false equivalency and isn't a useful discussion point. 

I would be beyond surprised if Tomori or Cristante feel more affinity towards Canada than their home nations, and I think they ought to represent those countries if able. I also don't think there anything wrong with hoping that they are deemed surplus by England/Italy and that they consider playing for Canada as a second option. That is not hypocritical at all for someone to do who also thinks that Tabla should play for Canada (for the record, I think he should play for whoever he most strongly identifies with, though I think it is valid to question the thought process of someone who has spent the large majority of their life in Canada that identifies more strongly with another nation, but that is a personal decision).

That being said, @Levi Oakey's point has some merit in my book. In my own profession, where our education is heavily subsidized by the government, there is a huge stigma for those who choose to double their salaries by practicing in the states. Canadians of my profession tend to recognize that they are the product of Canadian society and are aware of the socioeconomic factors that led to them getting the chance to do what they do, and feel a moral obligation to work for the country that made them who they are. Maybe comparing sports, which is ultimately trivial, to that is a bit heavy handed, but I wouldn't entirely discount it.

Sorry if that was a rant, I just think the discussion has more nuance than people give it. Now to go do something actually productive....

Edited June 18, 2017 by Complete Homer

[Guest]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

Wouldn't Tomori and Cristante be just as bad as Tabla if they choose us over the countries that "made" them?

no, because Tabla is leaving to play for a better country when if he chose his other option he'd easily make the team

[Zem]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

Question: Does he have to file a one-time switch to play for Ivory Coast in a senior or youth friendly? 

He would for any official match, since he played for us at the 2015 CONCACAF U17 Championship. That would include senior friendlies, but not youth friendlies.

[Moldy9]

3 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Do you have respect for Juan Cordova who came up through Chilean youth academies?

Do you think Tomori shouldn't consider Canada since he is developing in the English setup?

Would you lose respect for Bryan Cristante if he chose Canada over Italy?

These are legitimate questions, I've love to hear your answers.

That's totally different. Chile, England and Italy have plenty of talent and if they chose not to take those players cause they can't cut it how's that we are "stealing" them away and making us the bad guys? 

[harrycoyster]

2 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Not exactly sure how that meshes with my statement, but since you're asking I'll give my opinion

In general, I think people should play for the country they identify the strongest with, unless they are deemed to be surplus (ex. Arfield). I think people who go as far as saying people have some sort of moral obligation to any particular nation are going a bit too far, but I think it is entirely fair to say that it is less classy to cynically play for a country that has better chances at advancing your career.

These discussions tend to go sideways because people generally group "fencesitters" into one big group, instead of recognizing that there are several groups that each have different arguments associated with them. Players born and raised in Canada that went abroad will likely have very different identity perceptions than those who were born in Canada but raised elsewhere. So will players born abroad but raised in Canada, or players born and raised elsewhere but become naturalized citizens. Directly comparing Cristante to Tabla is a false equivalency and isn't a useful discussion point. 

I would be beyond surprised if Tomori or Cristante feel more affinity towards Canada than their home nations, and I think they ought to represent those countries if able. I also don't think there anything wrong with hoping that they are deemed surplus by England/Italy and that they consider playing for Canada as a second option. That is not hypocritical at all for someone to do who also thinks that Tabla should play for Canada (for the record, I think he should play for whoever he most strongly identifies with, though I think it is valid to question the thought process of someone who has spent the large majority of their life in Canada that identifies more strongly with another nation, but that is a personal decision).

That being said, @Levi Oakey's point has some merit in my book. In my own profession, where our education is heavily subsidized by the government, there is a huge stigma for those who choose to double their salaries by practicing in the states. Canadians of my profession tend to recognize that they are the product of Canadian society and are aware of the socioeconomic factors that led to them getting the chance to do what they do, and feel a moral obligation to work for the country that made them who they are. Maybe comparing sports, which is ultimately trivial, to that is a bit heavy handed, but I wouldn't entirely discount it.

Sorry if that was a rant, I just think the discussion has more nuance than people give it. Now to go do something actually productive....

Was unaware you are u/KSenCSmith. We've had this same conversation before on the subreddit. My apologies.

51 minutes ago, Moldy9 said:

That's totally different. Chile, England and Italy have plenty of talent and if they chose not to take those players cause they can't cut it how's that we are "stealing" them away and making us the bad guys? 

I was referring to if the aforementioned players decided to join us now, not after they've given up on their current national team.

[harrycoyster]

2 hours ago, canta15 said:

no, because Tabla is leaving to play for a better country when if he chose his other option he'd easily make the team

Is it perhaps possible that Tabla is "leaving" to play for the country that he truly wants to represent? In his interviews he has said things like "I feel African" and "I have a strong connection to the Ivory Coast". I've never heard him mention the level of play.

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, Zem said:

He would for any official match, since he played for us at the 2015 CONCACAF U17 Championship. That would include senior friendlies, but not youth friendlies.

Actually he can't play in any match for IC without filing the switch because of being officially cap-tied to Canada thanks to those U17 qualifier matches.

[rob.notenboom]

Probability that he gets called in to Ivory Coast, plays a match, and then never features in another international match again? I'm going to say decent. 

[Yoginess]

10 hours ago, MtlMario said:

And I lose respect for players who only use our youth setup just for their own benefit.

I don't really agree with this statement. If you've been transplanted to another country that is not your own and are playing youth football, do you really expect a 13 year old to turn down a call up to play for the local national team? As kids playing sports it's quite a validation to be called into a national camp. I can't really blame him if his coaches/parents get him to attend. What is he supposed to have some magical foresight that 

1) he's going to be the incredible odds and actually play football as a pro

2) that five years down the road, when his decisions are his own, he's going to want to represent his birth country

[MtlMario]

5 hours ago, Yoginess said:

I don't really agree with this statement. If you've been transplanted to another country that is not your own and are playing youth football, do you really expect a 13 year old to turn down a call up to play for the local national team? As kids playing sports it's quite a validation to be called into a national camp. I can't really blame him if his coaches/parents get him to attend. What is he supposed to have some magical foresight that 

1) he's going to be the incredible odds and actually play football as a pro

2) that five years down the road, when his decisions are his own, he's going to want to represent his birth country

If his parents wants him to play for IC now they wanted it even then. And he played for Canada until now not only when he 13. You think he didn't have a preference when he was 18? I think if you grow up in a country that gave you a better life (like many of us here) I think it's only normal that you would play for that country to show some gratitude.That's all I'm saying, you don't need magical foresight for that. 

[MtlMario]

16 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Do you have respect for Juan Cordova who came up through Chilean youth academies?

Do you think Tomori shouldn't consider Canada since he is developing in the English setup?

Would you lose respect for Bryan Cristante if he chose Canada over Italy?

These are legitimate questions, I've love to hear your answers.

The only way these players play for us is if they don't make their home teams and we again become second choice, and it wont be a disaster for their countries if they don't play for them. But it would be vg for Canada if they chose us which would make me happy because I'm a CANADA fan. To answer your question of losing respect the answer is yes ( but I'd still be happy).

[Floortom]

51 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

The only way these players play for us is if they don't make their home teams and we again become second choice, and it wont be a disaster for their countries if they don't play for them. But it would be vg for Canada if they chose us which would make me happy because I'm a CANADA fan. To answer your question of losing respect the answer is yes ( but I'd still be happy).

Why would you lose respect for someone who isn't selected for their home country and instead plays for Canada? I really don't understand this. At that point the choice become play for Canada or don't play international soccer.

 

[MtlMario]

21 hours ago, Floortom said:

Why would you lose respect for someone who isn't selected for their home country and instead plays for Canada? I really don't understand this. At that point the choice become play for Canada or don't play international soccer.

 

You might be right,if he isn't chosen,then we should give him some slack, unlike someone like Tabla for example.

[One American]

The team that cap-ties you first always has a big advantage. Especially when the second team is better. IC just started a 20 and a 21 yo against Holland. He'll have to achieve a pretty high level to be certain of making the team.  

Edited June 20, 2017 by One American