Mark-Anthony Kaye

[InglewoodJack]

22 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Great post btw but wanted to quickly talk about this part. I think about this often, actually. IF you asked me a year ago I would have said Osorio too, but lately I feel like Oso won't get to 100 period, let alone being the second player to get there.

Honestly, I think it's going to be Larin. He's already at 63 64 caps - just 7  6 behind Oso.

For Oso I think he makes it- you figure he probably has at least 5 years to get 30 caps; he’d have to play 6-10 games per year which could be ambitious depending on his form and how many games we actually play, but I figure his spot on the team is very solidified until after next World Cup, and I do think he sticks around until he’s in his mid 30s. Good shout on Larin though- without a doubt he makes it. I can imagine a scenario where Osorio starts getting benched for Choiniere or maybe someone we aren’t thinking of, but with Larin, for him to lose that spot, like 3 or 4 players would have to come out of nowhere to become premier league stars, so it’s safe to say that it’s only a matter of time. I think he breaks Aruba’s record and holds it until Davies breaks it in about a decade.

[Obinna]

35 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

For Oso I think he makes it- you figure he probably has at least 5 years to get 30 caps; he’d have to play 6-10 games per year which could be ambitious depending on his form and how many games we actually play, but I figure his spot on the team is very solidified until after next World Cup, and I do think he sticks around until he’s in his mid 30s. Good shout on Larin though- without a doubt he makes it. I can imagine a scenario where Osorio starts getting benched for Choiniere or maybe someone we aren’t thinking of, but with Larin, for him to lose that spot, like 3 or 4 players would have to come out of nowhere to become premier league stars, so it’s safe to say that it’s only a matter of time. I think he breaks Aruba’s record and holds it until Davies breaks it in about a decade.

For sure. And furthermore even if he becomes a back up striker he could be a guy you bring into a game late when you are chasing a goal. Larin will break Hutch's cap record. Oso I think just sneaks above the 100-cap mark potentially, at best. If I were making a bet I would say he gets to the mid-90 mark. That's basically 25 caps from here.

[costarg]

4 hours ago, grigorio said:

The issue here is he's also sort of injury prone and when he's not available for an international window, we're pretty well rudderless. Especially given Atiba's retirement. If say Staq isn't available, Kone is in a rough patch, Oso/MAK are fading we're paper thin in a hurry and can't hang in games of any substance. 

I'm fully confident that Ahmed and Choiniere can be just as good as Kaye and Osorio ever were and can fill that gap.

The biggest issue/gap is 2 years ago we had Stache and Hutch playing great and at a high level at the same time.  We lost that dual strong CM combo, just gotta wait for Kone to deliver the consistency we need and hope for.  I'm confident our midfield is stronger than we assume, we just haven't given the new guys a real chance.

Not to mention the real young guys still developing in MLS and elsewhere.  Pretty sure these guys will reach new heights Piette, Oso, Kaye never imagined. 

[Club Linesman]

I love Oso and what he has done for Canada and TFC.  But like Piette he will struggle to get a ton more caps.  I used to think Piette would easily hit 100 but he has no chance as the player pool has surpassed his level.  I would think Oso will be a bit player for another little while and then he will fade away no where near 100 caps.  

[costarg]

2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

For Oso I think he makes it- you figure he probably has at least 5 years to get 30 caps; he’d have to play 6-10 games per year which could be ambitious depending on his form and how many games we actually play, but I figure his spot on the team is very solidified until after next World Cup, and I do think he sticks around until he’s in his mid 30s. Good shout on Larin though- without a doubt he makes it. I can imagine a scenario where Osorio starts getting benched for Choiniere or maybe someone we aren’t thinking of, but with Larin, for him to lose that spot, like 3 or 4 players would have to come out of nowhere to become premier league stars, so it’s safe to say that it’s only a matter of time. I think he breaks Aruba’s record and holds it until Davies breaks it in about a decade.

There will be a lot of competition for those midfield caps in short time.  I hope the younglings are strong enough to give 2020 Osorio a tough fight.

[JBR]

16 minutes ago, Club Linesman said:

I love Oso and what he has done for Canada and TFC.  But like Piette he will struggle to get a ton more caps.  I used to think Piette would easily hit 100 but he has no chance as the player pool has surpassed his level.  I would think Oso will be a bit player for another little while and then he will fade away no where near 100 caps.  

Too bad. He's never been the same since his bout with post concussion syndrome. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

49 minutes ago, Club Linesman said:

I love Oso and what he has done for Canada and TFC.  But like Piette he will struggle to get a ton more caps.  I used to think Piette would easily hit 100 but he has no chance as the player pool has surpassed his level.  I would think Oso will be a bit player for another little while and then he will fade away no where near 100 caps.  

I think we have to wait to see if Herdman revives TFC, then Oso might return to his previous level that way. I am not sure you have to rule him out that quickly. The only question is that if that head injury, or neurological, which affected him in the lead-up months to the WC, really meant some more longterm damage that will impede him from performing at the highest level. 

He still seems to me to be a guy who has midfield smarts, he can be tricky, tenacious, has leadership on the pitch, he worked hard pressing last match, there is a lot there. If his TFC season starts well he's the ideal player as we stand to accompany Staq, him or Hoillet I'd say. Kone needs more time, Piette is more holding and has slipped. I defer to others here on Choinière. 

[El Hombre]

54 minutes ago, costarg said:

I'm fully confident that Ahmed and Choiniere can be just as good as Kaye and Osorio ever were and can fill that gap.

Kaye I agree with but Osorio I do not.  Osorio is one of the few players we've produced with a creative element to his game.  He is able to pull the strings and generate offense which I don't see in either Choiniere or Ahmed.  Both are great players but I don't think either will match Osorio in this specific skill. 

As for who is coming up that might be able to do this?  Short of having David play a bit withdrawn, I don't see anyone as next in line with that skillset.  Maybe someone like Dias with a bit of flair to their game, but I've never seen Lucas play.  That is why I'm fine with keeping Osorio around, hopefully that creativity will rub off on others.

[PiedPilko]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

I'm fully confident that Ahmed and Choiniere can be just as good as Kaye and Osorio ever were and can fill that gap.

The biggest issue/gap is 2 years ago we had Stache and Hutch playing great and at a high level at the same time.  We lost that dual strong CM combo, just gotta wait for Kone to deliver the consistency we need and hope for.  I'm confident our midfield is stronger than we assume, we just haven't given the new guys a real chance.

Not to mention the real young guys still developing in MLS and elsewhere.  Pretty sure these guys will reach new heights Piette, Oso, Kaye never imagined. 

This. I feel like people don't realize how good we had it with Steph and late-career-surge Atiba. It didn't last long, and Atiba wasn't at that level when the World Cup came around, but that was the smartest midfield in concacaf when clicking.

[dyslexic nam]

5 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

As for who is coming up that might be able to do this?  Short of having David play a bit withdrawn, I don't see anyone as next in line with that skillset.  Maybe someone like Dias with a bit of flair to their game, but I've never seen Lucas play.  That is why I'm fine with keeping Osorio around, hopefully that creativity will rub off on others.

Things will get interesting if Jebbo commits to us.   Assuming Larin still has some years left in him, if Jebbo keeps progressing you could make an argument that partnering him and Larin, with David in the CAM hole behind the two of them, might be an ideal way to use our best attacking talent with all 3 of them in the field.  This would depend on Jebbo really being at a level to warrant inclusion among that group, but I wouldn’t bet against it.  

Throw in Davies and Tajon as wide attacking players (with Staq and Kone playing as deeper lying mids) and you have a helluva group playing in front of the defence.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Kaye I agree with but Osorio I do not.  Osorio is one of the few players we've produced with a creative element to his game.  He is able to pull the strings and generate offense which I don't see in either Choiniere or Ahmed.  Both are great players but I don't think either will match Osorio in this specific skill. 

As for who is coming up that might be able to do this?  Short of having David play a bit withdrawn, I don't see anyone as next in line with that skillset.  Maybe someone like Dias with a bit of flair to their game, but I've never seen Lucas play.  That is why I'm fine with keeping Osorio around, hopefully that creativity will rub off on others.

Lucas is an attacking mid usually on the left, l only saw him in Youth League but he was too young and slight back then.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Things will get interesting if Jebbo commits to us.   Assuming Larin still has some years left in him, if Jebbo keeps progressing you could make an argument that partnering him and Larin, with David in the CAM hole behind the two of them, might be an ideal way to use our best attacking talent with all 3 of them in the field.  This would depend on Jebbo really being at a level to warrant inclusion among that group, but I wouldn’t bet against it.  

Throw in Davies and Tajon as wide attacking players (with Staq and Kone playing as deeper lying mids) and you have a helluva group playing in front of the defence.  

 Would make for fun watching.

I worry, like I do anytime we go with 2 in there, that neither of those central midfielders are (or play) big enough nor whatever effort they bring, defence is not their real strength.

I feel we would be wide open to all of decent quality.

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

 Would make for fun watching.

I worry, like I do anytime we go with 2 in there, that neither of those central midfielders are (or play) big enough nor whatever effort they bring, defence is not their real strength.

I feel we would be wide open to all of decent quality.

Not sure I agree.  Staq can define play a defensive role.   And Kone will confuse to get physically stronger.  If he tidies up the giveaways I think he can be effective as a box to box guy.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

14 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Not sure I agree.  Staq can define play a defensive role.   And Kone will confuse to get physically stronger.  If he tidies up the giveaways I think he can be effective as a box to box guy.  

Hopefully on Kone, I have not see it yet.

Eustaquio is both wasted there for me but also does not have the out and out pace to be a Kante type or the size to be a DM against quality driving midfielders or teams that would dump balls into midfield. 

 

I think they would be good for most of CONCACAF but looking beyond it. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[anthony7]

On 11/20/2023 at 12:09 PM, Obinna said:

I feel like this won't age well.

Remember the last time Jamaica played in Toronto? They'll be some more yellow this time around, but don't hold your breath on a 50-50 split. Jamaica are without Antonio, Bell, and Demari Gray has a question mark with his fitness, and there is discontent with Bailey and rumours (probably unfounded but still) that Bailey asked to leave camp. 

@Shway would have his finger on the pulse more than I, but from what I can tell the Jamaica fanbase seems pretty demoralized after last game. Combine that with the cold rainy weather and I can see a fairly partisan Canada crowd. I will go 80/20...what say you? I think the home crowd and momentum from last match pushes us to victory, not to mention the playing surface and the fact we haven't lost at BMO since 2010. 

As for Oso, yeah he could have done better on the chance, but that's also not his game to drive into the box at speed and get a shot off. Had this been Buchanan or Davies or Millar in that position I would have expected more. And I don't mean to defend Oso here, but where is your criticsm for the Larin miss late in the first half. Will he rue his f*ck up or should it only be Oso who is to blame if we don't get through? 

Final point, yes you need legs in midfield and Oso is losing his from what I see, but so is Hoilett and he's found a way to be effective. I think Oso will figure it out enough to remain in the pool this cycle and start most matches for Toronto. As I said before, I will be discontented if Oso is starting matches and getting muscled off the ball by younger, more athletic players (Reyna, Weah, etc.) and is turning into a liability. If he plays reduced minutes to see out games, there is less risk of that. I think we just have to use him in the right way moving forward. 

Paging @Obinna, you there bro? I think this aged just fine. lol!! Next time when someone is spitting facts, listen. Jamaica should have won 4-2. You see that’s what happens when you have YOUNG tier 1 players who can rise to the occasion. Ya, I think Oso will definitely rue that SIMPLE f*ck up to close out the tie. No surprises here.

Edited November 22, 2023 by anthony7

[anthony7]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:52 PM, RS said:

At the risk of being accused of "dozing through a long detailed post" to "cough, bristle and shake off the frost" by another poster on here, Ahmed is 100% with the national team right now.

For someone making such impassioned arguments, you might want to get some basic facts correct.

Well he may be with the National Team but he got 0 minutes total so essentially he was not there. Why don’t you tell me why he got 0 minutes and invisible Oso got picked ahead of him in both legs?

[anthony7]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:36 PM, SoccMan said:

Henry was injured he did not just give up his spot on the World Cup team , where are you getting this stuff from , stop making shit up ! The coaches will eventually know when a player is no longer an asset to a team , however , unfortunately for you Osorio is still a player with value to TFC and our national team , and again saying that Osorio was faking an injury and only came back to TFC when he wanted to and not because of an injury is total BS , like I said stop making shit up please !

How is OSO an asset to the national team when he f*cked up a simple chance to close out the tie in the 1st leg. Then in the 2nd leg, he comes off bench against 10 MEN and does nothing. While Ahmed plays a GRAND TOTAL of 0 MINUTES in both legs. Please make that make sense to me?

[anthony7]

On 11/20/2023 at 9:54 PM, El Hombre said:

#FreezingColdTake

 

Hmm, but does it matter? They still qualified for Copa America. Guess who didn’t?

[costarg]

47 minutes ago, anthony7 said:

Well he may be with the National Team but he got 0 minutes total so essentially he was not there. Why don’t you tell me why he got 0 minutes and invisible Oso got picked ahead of him in both legs?

Agree with you here.  Osorio's "experience" is pointless and very costly.

[anthony7]

13 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Kaye I agree with but Osorio I do not.  Osorio is one of the few players we've produced with a creative element to his game.  He is able to pull the strings and generate offense which I don't see in either Choiniere or Ahmed.  Both are great players but I don't think either will match Osorio in this specific skill. 

As for who is coming up that might be able to do this?  Short of having David play a bit withdrawn, I don't see anyone as next in line with that skillset.  Maybe someone like Dias with a bit of flair to their game, but I've never seen Lucas play.  That is why I'm fine with keeping Osorio around, hopefully that creativity will rub off on others.

This is an absolute horrible take and part of reason why this country is at the state it’s in right now.

Your willing to keep Oso around while players like Ahmed and an MLS All STAR in Choinere are held back because you believe Oso ‘pulls the strings’? Are you actually that delusional? Pulling the strings is not constantly playing it safe, backwards and sideways. With your logic, might as well hold onto Piette too right? Cause he’s the only guy with attributes that would be hard to replicate?

Ahmed was a breath of fresh air at the Gold Cup. Playing without fear, taking players on 1v1 and making things happen. This guy has all the tools to be molded into a proper number 10. Please explain to me why he saw a GRAND TOTAL of 0 minutes in the two legs against Jamaica?

Did you actually watch Choinere this season? Guy can play a nice weighted ball, has more athleticism than Oso and isn’t AFRAID to shoot from distance. Please tell me the last time Oso scored a goal from outside of the penalty box? Please tell me why Oso(WHO’S NEVER BEEN AN MLS ALL STAR) get’s called up ahead of Choinere for this window?

Edited November 22, 2023 by anthony7

[El Hombre]

10 hours ago, anthony7 said:

Hmm, but does it matter? They still qualified for Copa America. Guess who didn’t?

It's been awhile since I've seen someone celebrate a Canadian defeat like you are.  You're like a pig in shit right now.  Enjoy!

[Dominic94]

There’s no reason why Kaye should have been called over Choiniere and played over Ahmed. Both of those guys are better getting the ball forward and progressing it forward, what’s worse is that Kone, Staq and Ali all have show an ability to move up the ball and deliver the occasional line breaking pass. Kaye  hasn’t. 
 

Choiniere can play multiple postions and is a work hose who would have given us a bigger spark than most of the guys on the bench.

Kaye and the current core of the vets have taken us as far as they can.

[El Hombre]

7 hours ago, anthony7 said:

This is an absolute horrible take and part of reason why this country is at the state it’s in right now.

Your willing to keep Oso around while players like Ahmed and an MLS All STAR in Choinere are held back because you believe Oso ‘pulls the strings’? Are you actually that delusional? Pulling the strings is not constantly playing it safe, backwards and sideways. With your logic, might as well hold onto Piette too right? Cause he’s the only guy with attributes that would be hard to replicate?

Ahmed was a breath of fresh air at the Gold Cup. Playing without fear, taking players on 1v1 and making things happen. This guy has all the tools to be molded into a proper number 10. Please explain to me why he saw a GRAND TOTAL of 0 minutes in the two legs against Jamaica?

Did you actually watch Choinere this season? Guy can play a nice weighted ball, has more athleticism than Oso and isn’t AFRAID to shoot from distance. Please tell me the last time Oso scored a goal from outside of the penalty box? Please tell me why Oso(WHO’S NEVER BEEN AN MLS ALL STAR) get’s called up ahead of Choinere for this window?

Oh silly rabbit.  You'll get it someday.

As I said, Osorio has/had a skillset that we haven't produced with regularity here, so it's good to keep him around.  Neither Ahmed nor Choiniere are the same type of player as he is and therefore wasn't chosen over either of those two.  Ahmed and Choiniere are both excellent midfielders while Osorio was brought in to play just behind the forward.

I watched every Montreal game this season.  If Choiniere was as good as you say as a 10, why didn't he play there?  That's exactly what Montreal needed.  He played pretty much every other position, which is a tribute to his footballing brain and athleticism, but not where you say he excels.  Same with Ahmed.  He did well at the Gold Cup but I just did a quick check and it looks like every minute he played at the Gold Cup was with Osorio as a midfield partner and not instead of.  So, if you are looking at this objectively, one could easily conclude that Ahmed did so well because he had that steadying veteran presence beside him.

Listen, we get that you don't like Osorio, but if you can't admit that he still has something to offer in certain situations and as a mentor, then your bias is clouding your judgment.  Also, this isn't fantasy football, you can't just plug and play players like you want to and be successful.  Your approach to roster building is incredibly naive.

[costarg]

8 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

There’s no reason why Kaye should have been called over Choiniere and played over Ahmed. Both of those guys are better getting the ball forward and progressing it forward, what’s worse is that Kone, Staq and Ali all have show an ability to move up the ball and deliver the occasional line breaking pass. Kaye  hasn’t. 
 

Choiniere can play multiple postions and is a work hose who would have given us a bigger spark than most of the guys on the bench.

Kaye and the current core of the vets have taken us as far as they can.

Guys were getting beat up pretty bad for saying that kind of stuff on here just last week.  I won't say I told you so, but at least I hope we've learned that "experience" won't get us where we want to be.

We knew Biello would be rather conservative.  At least he went with the ideal formation and correct 11, only issue was the changes and squad selection.  

[Obinna]

I would rather be wrong and see us win, then see us lose and feel vindicated. I'll say that off the top.

Now with that out of the way, I will say this...

1. The subs last night were awful. There's no way around it. Biello brought on Kaye, Oso and Hoilett to close out the game but we ended up needing a goal and none of those players helped in that regard. We can't deny that.
2. Someone mentioned in the game thread Kaye didn't do much wrong. However, he didn't give us what we needed in that moment either, which was chance creation. Ditto for Oso and Hoilett wasn't much better. In the context of how the hame played out and what the game called for, all 3 were terrible.
3. The game was begging for Ahmed, but we didn't see him. Good that he was called in the squad. Bad he wasn't used when he was needed. I get the game played out differently than expected, but that's on Biello for making those 3 changes all at once. 
4. I don't think any fans would say we don't need a squad refresh after tonight. Even before tonight I don't think anyone was resisting a squad refresh - it was just that we were hoping the throwback squad would be what we needed, what more could we do than hope for the best? If we got the result people would say it was the right call, but we didn't so it wasn't, but that is specifically on Biello's in-game management last night, in my opinon.
5. I said this in various threads now, but in March I don't want to see Vitoria, Oso and Kaye (who this thread is about). I am split on Hoilett and Borjan (for different reasons), but ultimately I feel there is no better time to turn a new page. I won't kick and screem if one or maybe even two of these guys gets included, but ideally I don't want any of them for March. I can elaborate if needed...
   1. You'll notice I didn't say Piette here. That's intentional. I can elaborate there too, if anyone cares.