Match Thread: October 28, 2023 - Playoffs - Final - Forge v Cavalry

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

... But I also can't blame the fans of the 3 or 4 teams who have never really mattered if they start (or continue) to tune out. 

All they really need to do is make the salary floor a lot closer to the salary cap and not have extra expenses on accomodation and travel etc that apply in some markets more than others being folded into the salary budget. If that's not happening it's because a significant portion of the owners want it that way and the Blue Bombers have to be prime suspects on that, unfortunately.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[masster]

I have seen a lot of soccer things over the last 12-24 months that I wasn't sure I would ever see in my lifetime. Yet still today, and watching the highlights again, I can't believe what we are witnessing this league. I am so grateful!

Did the best team win? Maybe not. Was the result the optimal one for the league and sport? I'm not sure.

But regardless of that, the fact we are even in a position to ask those questions is still so amazing for me.

I love this league. I can't wait for next season.

[Cadeau]

That was a great game and fantastic atmosphere. I feel bad for Cavalry, losing because of two insanely great goals. 

[jonovision]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

All they really need to do is make the salary floor a lot closer to the salary cap and not have extra expenses on accomodation and travel etc that apply in some markets more than others being folded into the salary budget. If that's not happening it's because a significant portion of the owners want it that way and the Blue Bombers have to be prime suspects on that, unfortunately.

You are correct, but if the Bombers group were the only ones advocating for a low floor, we wouldn't have it.

[jonovision]

2 hours ago, Cadeau said:

That was a great game and fantastic atmosphere. I feel bad for Cavalry, losing because of two insanely great goals. 

Spectacular goals? Of course? Great goals? I'm not so sure. A good keeper gets a hand to both, I think, and an olimpico never goes in without a major goalkeeping cock-up.

[Unnamed Trialist]

True, everyone being nice to Carducci but the last one, the winner, can't be scored against you. 

It seems Forge saw they could pick on him after the other goal. Not sure if he was just tired or had gotten hit in the air at any time, if he had lost his balance or confidence, but he did not assert himself. 

I always felt Carducci was better than Henry, and I think he used to be. Henry has evolved into the keeper he is, and that was one of the differences, an important one, in this match.

[jonovision]

I know stats, even the newfangled ones, don't always tell the whole story for keepers (Yesli is too high here), but this says Carducci was better than Henry all season. And the other keepers basically line up as I'd expect. The Forge keeper was just better in the final.

[RJB]

13 hours ago, jonovision said:

When the league releases the salary cap compliance figures maybe I'll be able to talk myself back into it. But I doubt it.

Maybe the other teams need to be better. If Forge is spending money to win, they're doing it well and it's refreshing to see that from a club and owner.  This isn't Harrison Bergeron, the other clubs need to step up, not Forge be held back. 

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, RJB said:

Maybe the other teams need to be better. If Forge is spending money to win, they're doing it well and it's refreshing to see that from a club and owner.  This isn't Harrison Bergeron, the other clubs need to step up, not Forge be held back. 

Again, Forge are likely doing nothing wrong. They do have a major advantage (geography) that will be extremely difficult to overcome, but will be impossible for other clubs to overcome if they are poorly run (see York who have the same advantage).

[InglewoodJack]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Forge having a dynasty hasn't had any sort of negative effect on the league. Attendance was up and viewership is too. Quality of the league is better. We're transferring players out successfully.

Plenty of places in the world there are dynasties, but if you look carefully, their rivals weren't up to par in critical moments. Even dynasties starting competitions like the European Cup. How did Borussia Dortmund not win the league last year? Cavalry was leading deep into extra periods. 

As a Barça fan i always say, there isn't a single year we couldn't have stopped Real Madrid in the past or a day in the present. If we hate them maybe we should do something about it.

Anyways, Cavalry won the table and a trophy. And when you get a big crowd I like to see them go home happy, like I would have liked to see Ottawa fans last year.

It's all too salty, melodramatic  and over the top from @jonovision and others here.

Most leagues that have one dominant team also have a second team that is right up there with them, and those two teams trade dynasty runs with one another. Some decades belong to teams like Celtic and Red star, others belong to Rangers and Partizan, and so on. I don’t know if it’s too early in the CPL’s life to have one team completely dominate, but there’s no reason to think that Cavalry can’t go and win the next 3 straight titles and have it so when we look back at the CPL on its 15 year anniversary, we see two teams that traded these dynastic runs, took titles off one another, etc. For a resource-limited league like the CPL, I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad team if this sort of dominant run leads to certain teams attracting the best players, bringing in the biggest crowds, foster these really passionate rivalries, maybe even do some continental damage. 
 

Anyways, I think anyone watching that game last night came away more interested in the CPL product and potential- that was a great game between two very good teams, and if there was a team anywhere near me, that would’ve done enough to convince me to go to games next year. 

[SoccMan]

5 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

 

[SoccMan]

Good game , exciting to watch even as an a neutral . Some great skill on display by both team , moreover , two very good coached teams . As some have said a good advertisement for the league . However , just to be a bit pessimistic because unfortunately it’s just me can’t help it , but we have seen many great moments in Canadian soccer these past few years. Just  sticking to the men’s side , we’ve had that memorable playoff game home and away between TFC and Montreal , Montreal selling out Olympic stadium and TFC selling out BMO with the added seats there put in for the hockey winter classic with close to 36000 there and a incredible game at BMO with the return leg in 2016 . also very good tv ratings for that series , then TFC winning in 2017 the MLS Cup and again very good TV ratings . Move on to last year and Canada’s incredible run to qualifying for the World Cup with sell out crowds in our qualifying games in Edmonton, Hamilton and Toronto , tickets being so hard to buy . However , here we are with tickets to Canada Jamaica at BMO hardly selling , TFC tv ratings back to the same as they have always been. Edmonton selling out two cold weather Canada games or almost sellouts but can’t support a pro soccer team . It just seems every time we have something great happen in Canadian soccer and we all think this is going to to great things for Canadian soccer it never a seems to happen or be sustained. That game last night between Cavalry and Forge was a great game and event and yes an amazing atmosphere for the league and soccer in general in Canada but again can it be sustained because we have been here many times but yet we go back to square one shortly after unfortunately. I hope I’m wrong and this is the start of something great but as you have seen history is not on our side after these great events .

[shermanator]

Going into this game I was never expecting a Cavalry win. But to see Cavalry play better for 100 minutes, take the lead, then give it up to a mishit cross and an Olimpico is just devastating. I had 6 minutes of sheer happiness and that's a lot more than I thought I'd get.

Coming from a very biased perspective, I don't think Forge winning every year is good for the league. They are trying to push the regular season champion as equally as important as the playoff champion, but you could see during the playoffs that the media at the league and at OneSoccer were already downplaying Cavalry's success and saying it didn't mean much if they didn't win the playoffs. So obviously playoffs means more than the regular season. That's just the way it is in North America. I don't want to have to hear about how great Forge between now and April, so I'm simply tuning out until April. For a league and media company that are desperate for engagement during the offseason, that's not great.

Despite that, it was a hell of a season. After a poor showing in the 2022 playoffs and quiet offseason, I thought Cavalry were mid table at best. Then after the slow start I thought change was needed. But the club proved me and others wrong and I can't wait for CONCACAF in February.

[narduch]

Even Fotmob got into the action. 

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Interesting angle on the winning goal:

Carducci totally misjudged the flight of the ball. Suspect the "Forge of Hamilton" as they are now known on Onesoccer noticed a weakness through the course of the game that way because both goals are very much a case of him coming off his line more than he should slightly too soon and leaving his goal vulnerable to a high ball just under the bar.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Macksam]

17 hours ago, jonovision said:

An exciting game, but another Forge trophy is not good for the league.

If Forge were undefeated since 2019 and were beating teams on average by 3 goals, yes it would be. However, that's not really the case here.

[Aird25]

2 hours ago, Macksam said:

If Forge were undefeated since 2019 and were beating teams on average by 3 goals, yes it would be. However, that's not really the case here.

Exactly. Cavalry have been the better team overall, they just can't seem to win the knockout matches, but if we'd awarded the regular season from the start they would both be neck and neck on trophies. 

[Markoaleks]

Rewatching the match highlights after attending the match last night  ( still a bit Hungover LOL) but my gosh that Henry save in the 80th minute- WOW and also feel that goal Forge scored in regular time should have counted- but in hindsight as a Forge fan, am glad it was called off otherwise no extra time magic.

Feel the ref called a real good game too ( despite a too early yellow to M James) she did well and no small task with all the refs on the pitch and in the stands. One of the nice side benefits of CPL is to see this area of the game grow- not all of them are good, but she impressed me.

 

 

[Cicero]

5 minutes ago, Markoaleks said:

Feel the ref called a real good game too ( despite a too early yellow to M James) she did well and no small task with all the refs on the pitch and in the stands. One of the nice side benefits of CPL is to see this area of the game grow- not all of them are good, but she impressed me.

I think you've got the beer goggles on when it comes to the ref. She was indecisive, allowed way too much nonsense with time wasting, made inconsistent calls during most of regular time...This ref has repeatedly had bad games in Hamilton, and she certainly could never be considered the best ref the CPL has, so I wonder why she was chosen to ref the final...hmmm, I wonder...

[jonovision]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

I think you've got the beer goggles on when it comes to the ref. She was indecisive, allowed way too much nonsense with time wasting, made inconsistent calls during most of regular time...This ref has repeatedly had bad games in Hamilton, and she certainly could never be considered the best ref the CPL has, so I wonder why she was chosen to ref the final...hmmm, I wonder...

She is by far the best referee in CPL. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, jonovision said:

You are correct, but if the Bombers group were the only ones advocating for a low floor, we wouldn't have it.

Think it goes without saying that the clubs who are benefiting from it, Forge cough splutter, will also be happy with the status quo. It remains to be seen if Bob Young's influence on Canadian domestic pro soccer will be as insidious as that of Erich Mielke's in an East German context in terms of creating conditions that favoured one particular club:

Maybe Rocco LoFranco's escapades as owner of Toronto Italia and commissioner of the NSL at one and the same time are a better analogy. 

[longlugan]

6 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think it goes without saying that the clubs who are benefiting from it, Forge cough splutter, will also be happy with the status quo. It remains to be seen if Bob Young's influence on Canadian domestic pro soccer will be as insidious as that of Erich Mielke's in an East German context in terms of creating conditions that favoured one particular club:

Maybe Rocco LoFranco's escapades as owner of Toronto Italia and commissioner of the NSL at one and the same time are a better analogy. 

Leave it up to you to make the most inappropriate of comparisons possible just to emphasize your disdain of anything CPL related. You may want to do a bit more research into what else Mielke is responsible for before uttering something so nonsensical and insulting. Btw...Mielke's 'insiduous' politics were responsible for too many atrocities to list here and affected so many in East Germany, including my family. Go fuck yourself. 

[K Edgar]

9 hours ago, jonovision said:

The most accurate part of this list is Yesli's foot.  Neither is the correct answer.

[Cicero]

3 hours ago, jonovision said:

She is by far the best referee in CPL. 

She absolutely is not. And that has nothing to do with her being a woman. There are a couple guys who are definitely worse. The league is a development environment for refs as much as players and the level of reffing often leaves as much or more to be desired as the play on the field. But you want your best on the field for the biggest games, and this ref is not the best the CPL/Soccer Canada(?) has to offer.

[phil03]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think it goes without saying that the clubs who are benefiting from it, Forge cough splutter, will also be happy with the status quo. It remains to be seen if Bob Young's influence on Canadian domestic pro soccer will be as insidious as that of Erich Mielke's in an East German context in terms of creating conditions that favoured one particular club:

Maybe Rocco LoFranco's escapades as owner of Toronto Italia and commissioner of the NSL at one and the same time are a better analogy. 

2 hours ago, longlugan said:

Leave it up to you to make the most inappropriate of comparisons possible just to emphasize your disdain of anything CPL related. You may want to do a bit more research into what else Mielke is responsible for before uttering something so nonsensical and insulting. Btw...Mielke's 'insiduous' politics were responsible for too many atrocities to list here and affected so many in East Germany, including my family. Go fuck yourself. 

Yeah, I am no Forge lover and I have my grievances against the particulars of the CSB deal and how the CPL is organized but nobody involved has been the head of the political of a brutal dictatorship...

More broadly, I don't think East Germany is a good comparison for any but a blissfully rare few football scenes. Basically, what happened was that the best clubs during the Cold War tended to be those close to the state, the Communist Party, the Stasi or some combo of two or all three of these. They had access to more resources and got favourable treatment during decades. The thing is, those chickens came home to roost pretty badly after the fall of the Berlin Wall because not only did they lose the advantages coming with being buddies with the regime but the fact they where buddies with the regime had also kinda ensured that most fans in the now former GDR kinda hated these clubs' guts and they now had no reasons to hide these feelings...

We are in a very different situation in Canada, to put it mildly, and while its pretty rare we all agree on something I do think we can all agree on that being a VERY good thing!

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by phil03