CF Montreal - 2023 Season Thread

[costarg]

6 minutes ago, mtlfan said:

I disagree as they have been awful all season despite the wins. 

The style is pretty boring, just direct up and down which encouraged very little passing/interplay.  It got a little more fun for a while, mostly while Duke, Lassiter and Wanyama were starting.  Fell off a cliff from there.  Vilsaint and Quioto are the only exciting forward options and they spent most of the season injured.  Offor, Ibrahim, Opoku look like cones out there.  Choiniere, Saliba and ZBG offer some spark as well, but the rest is just bland direct runs.  There is no system, it's just put your head down and run.  Losada had the same thing going in DC United, par for the course. 

[narduch]

One Soccer people suggest  Montreal should move to CPL

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

One Soccer people suggest  Montreal should move to CPL

 

 

One Soccer bases that on one semi anonymous tweet. 

It's laughable punditry. Platt and that other guy who calls games hooked on histrionics should get it checked.

If they'd reacted proportionally to TfCs season, and empty seats, they'd have already done 9 full shows on why TFC should fold, sell to Detroit or Tampa, commit seppuku collectively as a sponsored event, and put the sale money into what Torontonians really want, an NFL team 

[narduch]

38 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

One Soccer bases that on one semi anonymous tweet. 

It's laughable punditry. Platt and that other guy who calls games hooked on histrionics should get it checked.

If they'd reacted proportionally to TfCs season, and empty seats, they'd have already done 9 full shows on why TFC should fold, sell to Detroit or Tampa, commit seppuku collectively as a sponsored event, and put the sale money into what Torontonians really want, an NFL team 

My hot take is that we would actually be better in the long run if all 3 MLS teams joined CPL.

[Bison44]

Total over reaction.  TFC has been in the shitter for years AND they are spending more than anyone else.   A complete shitshow, top to bottom...but Montreal is the team in trouble??  Van and Montreal arent going to spend what TFC/LAG etc does, but they can be successful, ie VAn this year, Montreal last year, ups and downs eh.  TFC brings in millions of dollars of talent and goes on to have their worst season ever and its all cool because Herdman came in and is observing (not helping) for the last month??  Maybe Joey's heart isnt in it longterm etc, but that wont be controlled on what the team has done in the last few months.  

[BearcatSA]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

One Soccer bases that on one semi anonymous tweet. 

It's laughable punditry. Platt and that other guy who calls games hooked on histrionics should get it checked.

Wonder what their reaction would be if another anonymous tweet linked Gauld to TFC for next year in a huge trade?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[mtlfan]

I am happy for the faithful that stayed to the end.  

I do hope they can win a game before the end of the year but if they do sqeeze in to the play in and then having to beat Cincinnati 2 out of three seems very unlikey.

This season has been a very boring one entertainment wise with Losada sending many players to the doghouse and then some to the outhouse.

Edited October 5, 2023 by mtlfan

[phil03]

On 10/4/2023 at 2:09 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

One Soccer bases that on one semi anonymous tweet. 

It's laughable punditry. Platt and that other guy who calls games hooked on histrionics should get it checked.

If they'd reacted proportionally to TfCs season, and empty seats, they'd have already done 9 full shows on why TFC should fold, sell to Detroit or Tampa, commit seppuku collectively as a sponsored event, and put the sale money into what Torontonians really want, an NFL team 

That and frankly anyone who take the time to familiarize themselves with the Impact and MLS would recognise this as simply some more complaining about the development club model the Impact has gone with in recent years. At no point do the Tweet states that the franchise itself is not viable, its complaining about budgetary decision and wanting Saputo to be willing to loose money for trophies like other MLS clubs do.

Like I said on the subject in another thread, if people here and on OneSoccer want the MLS clubs to be shoved in the CPL that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I strongly disagree but that's just me being included in ''everyone''. However, that does not means OneSoccer journalists should be excused from not actually doing their job and digging up a bit to get more context instead of jumping to the conclusion they want to reach.

On 10/4/2023 at 3:17 PM, Bison44 said:

Total over reaction.  TFC has been in the shitter for years AND they are spending more than anyone else.   A complete shitshow, top to bottom...but Montreal is the team in trouble??  Van and Montreal arent going to spend what TFC/LAG etc does, but they can be successful, ie VAn this year, Montreal last year, ups and downs eh.  TFC brings in millions of dollars of talent and goes on to have their worst season ever and its all cool because Herdman came in and is observing (not helping) for the last month??  Maybe Joey's heart isnt in it longterm etc, but that wont be controlled on what the team has done in the last few months.  

I'd argue the development club model is precisely there to guarantee that Saputo's heart stay in it by finding a way to function in MLS that respect whatever limits in term of personal spending he is willing to make, and even the critics of said model do, implicitly or explicitely, agree that it at least does that.

On TFC I'd argue that the problem is that they don't want to accept that the MLS is basically built to work by development cycles and to not let someone just buy their way to victory. Instead of embracing that reality and trying to work with it, like MTL and Van who merely seek to be respectable early in the cyle and then make a push at the end of the cycle, TFC's take seem to be ''yeah, but if we do just keep spending then it will happen...''

Edited October 6, 2023 by phil03

[Ruud]

Can’t go tonight versus Portland but if anyone is interested I will send you my tickets.  
 

Direct message me your email 

[phil03]

Oppoku make it 2-0 (he was the guy for the first goal even if Ibrahim put it in IMO). It might be wishful thinking but I do get the vibe they have gotten out of their bad sequence, and not a second too soon.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[mtlfan]

Last night the crowd was well rewarded which probably be Montreal's last match of 2023. They have three teams that could pass them those being Red Bulls away to Nashville , Chicago away to NYC , and Charlotte 2 games  home and away with Miami. Hopefully they don't need help and can take care of thesmevles at Columbus a team that was gifted Montreal's coaching staff their center back Camacho due to Saputo's inability to keep his mouth shut and Losada's insecurity.

Losada needs to get the players behind him 

[SoccMan]

On 10/4/2023 at 2:47 PM, narduch said:

My hot take is that we would actually be better in the long run if all 3 MLS teams joined CPL.

TFC could always move to Centennial stadium in Etobicoke if the move to the CPL ever happened former home of the Toronto Lynx, Toronto Blizzard and Toronto Rockets if I’m not mistaken. 

[Big_M]

Just now, Big_M said:

crew win 2-1

charlotte wins...red bulls score right at the end and montreal falls out of the playoff spots...montreal ends 10th and of course the huge run of red bulls qualifying for playoffs continues

 

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Big_M said:

 

It's unfortunate, but I feel it's for the best.  Losada has been soo arrogant in taking credit for the teams success while signalling his lack of budget.  There had to be some accountability.  I'm ok with tough and hardline coaches, but doesn't mean no one can question you.  His treatment of anyone who questioned his tactics and his benching of players is petty, weak and egotistical.  Benching your only DP for the second half of the season is insane.  I would fully support Joey and Renard in firing this one.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[phil03]

13 hours ago, costarg said:

It's unfortunate, but I feel it's for the best.  Losada has been soo arrogant in taking credit for the teams success while signalling his lack of budget.  There had to be some accountability.  I'm ok with tough and hardline coaches, but doesn't mean no one can question you.  His treatment of anyone who questioned his tactics and his benching of players is petty, weak and egotistical.  Benching your only DP for the second half of the season is insane.  I would fully support Joey and Renard in firing this one.

Wanyana is no longer a DP but I understand where you are coming from. I'd respectfully disagree though: MTL was a team on the first year of its new development and was plagued by injuries. In spite of that, we still performed respectably in the grand scheme of things.

Like, I won't pretend that I am quite happy with the season but the doom and gloom of the first month or so are definitely no longer there for me. The kids are alright and we will see good things as we go further in the development cycle. Moreover, Losada does seem to have one key quality for me: he can learn from his mistakes. He wasn't as much of a hardass as he was in DC and it does seem to have worked better. I am reasonably optimistic he can also learn to be more open to criticism.

Its also worth noting that it wouldn't have taken much for the season to look significantly better too: like, either Piette or Quioto not getting injured, or the both of them not getting injured for nearly as long, could have easily landed us to seventh place and being luckier in the Canadian Championship draft would probably have meant another trophy. Of course, clubs ought to be judged by what actually happened but the sheer fact that they had to face the gods of Soccer not being with them in some key instances this season should be taken into account when assessing it.

IMO Losada has earned a shot at showing what he can do with a club later in its development cycle and with hopefully better luck.

[Kadenge]

In my opinion, CFM are a quality striker & 1 or 2 CBs away from being in the playoffs next season. This assumes they don't move their better performers in the off season. 

[costarg]

10 minutes ago, phil03 said:

Wanyana is no longer a DP but I understand where you are coming from. I'd respectfully disagree though: MTL was a team on the first year of its new development and was plagued by injuries. In spite of that, we still performed respectably in the grand scheme of things.

Like, I won't pretend that I am quite happy with the season but the doom and gloom of the first month or so are definitely no longer there for me. The kids are alright and we will see good things as we go further in the development cycle. Moreover, Losada does seem to have one key quality for me: he can learn from his mistakes. He wasn't as much of a hardass as he was in DC and it does seem to have worked better. I am reasonably optimistic he can also learn to be more open to criticism.

Its also worth noting that it wouldn't have taken much for the season to look significantly better too: like, either Piette or Quioto not getting injured, or the both of them not getting injured for nearly as long, could have easily landed us to seventh place and being luckier in the Canadian Championship draft would probably have meant another trophy. Of course, clubs ought to be judged by what actually happened but the sheer fact that they had to face the gods of Soccer not being with them in some key instances this season should be taken into account when assessing it.

IMO Losada has earned a shot at showing what he can do with a club later in its development cycle and with hopefully better luck.

Ohh absolutely, don't get me wrong, I'm not being hard on the team, there is a lot of potential there and I do believe their model will be successful.  Not saying they suck, I just feel they could have done better without Losada's intensity and military style coaching, this team could have made the playoffs.  

CFM want to develop and sell players, but, Losada will get in the way of that.  He refused or stopped playing some of the guys who stepped out of line or spoke up.  That will not help them, he just set Rea back 12 months.  The team was playing best when Duke was the offensive spark plug, they regressed when Losada stopped playing him.  Same for Wanyama.  I was not a fan of Camacho, but when guys wanna leave cause of the coach, like Miller too,  it is not a good sign.

[Kadenge]

5 minutes ago, costarg said:

Ohh absolutely, don't get me wrong, I'm not being hard on the team, there is a lot of potential there and I do believe their model will be successful.  Not saying they suck, I just feel they could have done better without Losada's intensity and military style coaching, this team could have made the playoffs.  

CFM want to develop and sell players, but, Losada will get in the way of that.  He refused or stopped playing some of the guys who stepped out of line or spoke up.  That will not help them, he just set Rea back 12 months.  The team was playing best when Duke was the offensive spark plug, they regressed when Losada stopped playing him.  Same for Wanyama.  I was not a fan of Camacho, but when guys wanna leave cause of the coach, like Miller too,  it is not a good sign.

Saliba with his two way play and the ground he covers has really earned his starting spot. Perhaps Losada felt Montreal did not have enough goals in them to play both Piette and Wanyama? Although I agree with Duke and feel he should have played a bigger part in the 2nd half of the season. He has a lot of quality.

[phil03]

40 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

In my opinion, CFM are a quality striker & 1 or 2 CBs away from being in the playoffs next season. This assumes they don't move their better performers in the off season. 

That was the annoying part: we had the striker its just that he was injured for like 80% of the season... If Quioto had been healthy we would probably have qualified directly for the playoffs and there is pretty descent chance we would have won the Canadian Championship.

On this year's crop I'd say Choiniere is the only one that has a pretty good chance to be gone next season. The Impact fan in me will miss him but the CMNT fan in me can see the bigger picture and the benefits for the country of Choiniere being transferred upward, possibly even to a big five league.

43 minutes ago, costarg said:

Ohh absolutely, don't get me wrong, I'm not being hard on the team, there is a lot of potential there and I do believe their model will be successful.  Not saying they suck, I just feel they could have done better without Losada's intensity and military style coaching, this team could have made the playoffs.  

CFM want to develop and sell players, but, Losada will get in the way of that.  He refused or stopped playing some of the guys who stepped out of line or spoke up.  That will not help them, he just set Rea back 12 months.  The team was playing best when Duke was the offensive spark plug, they regressed when Losada stopped playing him.  Same for Wanyama.  I was not a fan of Camacho, but when guys wanna leave cause of the coach, like Miller too,  it is not a good sign.

I would preffered Nancy staying too but I still think Losada did ok in challenging circumstances. On the four players you mentioned I do think there is different circumstances at play. Camacho got traded for at least getting something out of it before his contract run out while Miller was sent away to get pieces to hopefully relaunch the team when it was at its worst, which arguably did work fine through Duke and Lassiter, and I fully agree with you on the former. That's the worse thing Losada did by far IMO.

On Rea, I feel bad about it, because I really want him to succeed, for both club and country and because he has a sympathetic background, but he kinda made his own troubles this season. He never did great in MLS but he was still getting regular minutes until he complained on camera, during a game, when he got subbed off. That's the kind of conversation that should have happened afterwards as well as in private and it happening in public kinda forced Losada's hands. We can discuss whether he was in the penalty box for too long, and I do believe he should get another chance next season, but his contribution was just not big enough to compensate for the potential dangers to team chemistry of treating him with kids gloves after that. Some serious benching was bound to happen and that's on him. We can only hope it was a learning experience for him and he will come out of it a more mature person and player.

[red card]

Tweet deleted but Jeremy Filosa listed 40 inglorious events for CFM 2019:

- Botched the Sandro Grande case

- Dispute with Kei Kamara during training camp

- Preseason match canceled against CLB

- Official kit/jersey not ready on time (not available until around mid season mark)

- A catastrophic start to the season

- Kamal Miller absolutely wanting to leave the club

- Only 2 days away from the opening match, running water hadn’t been turned on at Stade Saputo

- Sean Rea blacklisted by Losada

- Tired of waiting for a contract extension offer, Rudy Camacho (one of the team’s most important players) requests a trade

- 2 home matches and eliminated in Leagues Cup

- Wanyama benched game after game, his wife can't take it anymore and speaks out publicly on Twitter

- Arcadio Marcuzzi leaves the club and reveals the toxic and dysfunctional atmosphere of an ambition-lacking team

- Matko Miljevic, violent act in an amateur league, and contract termination

- Cheap shots in the media by sporting director Olivier Renard towards last year’s MVP Romell Quioto

- Team captain Samuel Piette publicly questions the coaching

- Shut out 15 times with a differential of -16

- A majority of dull-to-the-bone matches

- Not allowing Wilfried Nancy and the Columbus Crew to train on natural grass when coming to MTL

- A $20 promotion (1 x hot dog, 1 x coke, 1 x chips) that was taken down hours later because of backlash

- Salvatore Rivera, CFO and VP, spends a week in Bologna and is fired the day after coming back

- Sporting director Olivier Renard invites fans to go see stars in « other cities » if they want to see some

- The smallest budget in the MLS, and no cash for transfers

- Only one designated player, who doesn't even play anymore (Wanyama)

- The lowest-tier stadium in the MLS

- No news about stadium improvements after hinting they were on the way

- Very difficult relationships with several media outlets

- Several media outlets are dropping club coverage

- Summer transfer window: Still no significant signings, despite a playoff push

- Losada shedding light in press conferences on the club's lack of spending

- Still the only team without an MLS Next Pro club

- The Collectif Impact Montréal (supporters group) and their Seraphin banner (banner that read « $aputo, a man and his sin », as they threw fake money in the air)

- One win in the last 9 matches

- Little presence of the executives in the media

- No media presence at all from Joey Saputo

- The owner is in Italy for the 9th match of Bologna’s season, instead of being here. He's celebrating in Bologna, a day after CF's « heartbreaking » elimination

- No marketing build-up towards Decision Day

- Discounted tickets for almost every game (lots of free tix to youth clubs also)

- The club's top scorer has 5 goals

- A 30th birthday that goes completely uncelebrated

- The last 30 minutes of the season were played without any sense of urgency

[phil03]

Some of it is true, some of it is partially true, some of it is debatable and a good chunk of it need more context. Obviously going through every item would be a job so I won't do it.

I do feel its worth pointing out that the stadium stuff, at the very least, is untrue: the worse stadium in MLS is NYFC having to play in the freaking Baseball stadium. Even they would admit its the worse place in MLS IMO and there is at least a handful of non-Soccer specific stadiums that I'd argue there is a consensus are worse then Saputo. So even by the worse possible take, as these things are inherently subjective, it isn't close to be the lowest-tier, as the deleted tweet put it.

As for the renovations and enlargement work we do, in fact, have news: https://www.rds.ca/soccer/cfm/mls-epreuve-de-force-a-venir-entre-le-cfm-et-la-ville-au-sujet-du-stade-saputo-1.16696097. 

Basically, Saputo and the city are fighting over the exact number of tax revenues. This isn't great, obviously, but at least its a sign of a project that does seem fated to go forward and for which there is a clear business case. 

Moreover, there as also been talks of Peladeau dealing with the tax bill and funding the difference for an even larger expansion if the Alouettes are allowed to become junior tenants in the building: https://www.lapresse.ca/sports/2023-03-17/cf-montreal-et-alouettes-de-montreal/pas-de-stade-commun-de-sitot.php.

Incidentally, much of the bad relationship with media and cut in coverage stuff the tweet aluded came from Peladeau being petty about the team no longer being on TVA so it could also settle that file as well...

Edited October 24, 2023 by phil03

[costarg]

13 hours ago, red card said:

Tweet deleted but Jeremy Filosa listed 40 inglorious events for CFM 2019:

- Botched the Sandro Grande case

- Dispute with Kei Kamara during training camp

- Preseason match canceled against CLB

- Official kit/jersey not ready on time (not available until around mid season mark)

- A catastrophic start to the season

- Kamal Miller absolutely wanting to leave the club

- Only 2 days away from the opening match, running water hadn’t been turned on at Stade Saputo

- Sean Rea blacklisted by Losada

- Tired of waiting for a contract extension offer, Rudy Camacho (one of the team’s most important players) requests a trade

- 2 home matches and eliminated in Leagues Cup

- Wanyama benched game after game, his wife can't take it anymore and speaks out publicly on Twitter

- Arcadio Marcuzzi leaves the club and reveals the toxic and dysfunctional atmosphere of an ambition-lacking team

- Matko Miljevic, violent act in an amateur league, and contract termination

- Cheap shots in the media by sporting director Olivier Renard towards last year’s MVP Romell Quioto

- Team captain Samuel Piette publicly questions the coaching

- Shut out 15 times with a differential of -16

- A majority of dull-to-the-bone matches

- Not allowing Wilfried Nancy and the Columbus Crew to train on natural grass when coming to MTL

- A $20 promotion (1 x hot dog, 1 x coke, 1 x chips) that was taken down hours later because of backlash

- Salvatore Rivera, CFO and VP, spends a week in Bologna and is fired the day after coming back

- Sporting director Olivier Renard invites fans to go see stars in « other cities » if they want to see some

- The smallest budget in the MLS, and no cash for transfers

- Only one designated player, who doesn't even play anymore (Wanyama)

- The lowest-tier stadium in the MLS

- No news about stadium improvements after hinting they were on the way

- Very difficult relationships with several media outlets

- Several media outlets are dropping club coverage

- Summer transfer window: Still no significant signings, despite a playoff push

- Losada shedding light in press conferences on the club's lack of spending

- Still the only team without an MLS Next Pro club

- The Collectif Impact Montréal (supporters group) and their Seraphin banner (banner that read « $aputo, a man and his sin », as they threw fake money in the air)

- One win in the last 9 matches

- Little presence of the executives in the media

- No media presence at all from Joey Saputo

- The owner is in Italy for the 9th match of Bologna’s season, instead of being here. He's celebrating in Bologna, a day after CF's « heartbreaking » elimination

- No marketing build-up towards Decision Day

- Discounted tickets for almost every game (lots of free tix to youth clubs also)

- The club's top scorer has 5 goals

- A 30th birthday that goes completely uncelebrated

- The last 30 minutes of the season were played without any sense of urgency

Without being a fan of some of the antics, I really feel bad for Saputo.  No one from any angle will give the guy a break or even give him a fair shot at respect which he's earned.  No one in Quebec has come close to doing anything near what Joey has done for Soccer in Quebec.

He pays millions in land tax for land he doesn't even own, and the mayor is on record saying she doesn't feel bad for the billionaire, meanwhile the Als and Canadiens get help and everyone wants to help the Expos come back.

He was having a great time with the Impact, built a contender quickly with a mix of local talent as well as with this own culture.  He was present and having a blast hanging out with his buddies. Media and the fans forced him to let them go, then they still pestered him for being too present on the field after games (which he still does for Bologna) some team fans would love to see that.  Yes the locker room stuff was too much, but it doesn't need to be so extreme to the other side.

Media treated him like absolute shit from day one, from trying desperately to find links to organized crime to accusing him of favouring Italian players, branding him the immigrant and clearly resenting his families success.

There is soo much more.  The man and team deserved better.  Not sure what the next steps are, but he's clearly lost interest.  A sale would not be surprising.