Valour FC - 2023 Season Thread

[jonovision]

I'm not sure if today's result eliminates Valour officially, but they have been done and dusted for a while.

A few 2023 post mortem questions:

1. Does Dos Santos get the boot? I've mostly been a defender of his and a lot of the team's failures are not his fault, but hard to see how he can stay.
2. Who is worth keeping? Looking at it another way, which players would start on any other (non-Vancouver) team in the league. For me, those players are Williams, de Brienne, Gutierrez, and maybe Yesli.
3. Can we get some more Montreal loanees in 2024? Please?
4. Was this the most disappointing Valour season? My answer is yes.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Until yesterday's game I would have argued there was a case for keeping PdS but the way they meakly threw away a game that was there for the taking strongly suggests it's time for a change.

[jonovision]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Until yesterday's game I would have argued there was a case for keeping PdS but the way they meakly threw away a game that was there for the taking strongly suggests it's time for a change.

Yesterday's match, a decent team performance spoiled by a handful of individual errors against a far superior roster, would not move the needle for me, especially with the season having already long been over in terms of actually competing for a playoff spot.

Dos Santos deserves to go for his management and construction of this roster. He is hamstrung by the tightest possible budget, but many of his signings were poor and even if with the roster he ended up with there was a lot of questionable deployment. I don't think he is a worse manager than a few others that will keep working in CPL, but after 3 years of losing keeping him sends the wrong message.

[K Edgar]

21 hours ago, jonovision said:

I'm not sure if today's result eliminates Valour officially, but they have been done and dusted for a while.

A few 2023 post mortem questions:

1. Does Dos Santos get the boot? I've mostly been a defender of his and a lot of the team's failures are not his fault, but hard to see how he can stay.
2. Who is worth keeping? Looking at it another way, which players would start on any other (non-Vancouver) team in the league. For me, those players are Williams, de Brienne, Gutierrez, and maybe Yesli.
3. Can we get some more Montreal loanees in 2024? Please?
4. Was this the most disappointing Valour season? My answer is yes.

1. I like PDS.  Not sure Valour will find better but I think he is done here.

2. I think there are more players that are worth keeping - Baquero (not sure why he has been starting on the bench recently), Sanchez, Campbell, Mzoughi (more for U21 mins next year), Ohin (???), maybe Samake, possibly Pianelli.  Which players manage to keep (and have already signed for next year) remains to be seen.  Expecting to be disappointed.

3. Perhaps a mid-season loanee addition?

4. Not pleasant to compare 5 years of disappointments.

[VinceA]

Is this team even here next year?

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

Is this team even here next year?

Yes

[Wippersuna]

https://x.com/mahithgamage/status/1704682203714867651?s=20
 

Anyone have any idea what he’s referring to?

[VinceA]

12 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Yes

 

Seems like it isn't.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Hopefully that's just a case of attention seeking but from what I remember from past seasons he is well connected where the Valour are concerned.

[jonovision]

6 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Hopefully that's just a case of attention seeking but from what I remember from past seasons he is well connected where the Valour are concerned.

I think in this instance the attention-seeking may be a big part of it, as he ended up deleting the tweet that caused all the activity. 

I will say if Valour kicks the bucket, that's not a strong sign for the league, as their attendance is closer to average than bad, and they should have easily the lowest costs in the league aside from travel.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Genuinely hope I won't be able to say I told you so soon about certain things I posted back around 2018. The main reason for optimism on the league's longevity in the short to medium term is just how moronic the CSB deal was on the part of the CSA because the fixed payment stuff means there should be a very big pay day coming CSB's way in 2026. Think Duane Rollins has implied in the past that the CSB deal was the only thing keeping the Valour around.

[Soccerpro2]

PDS has been fine as a coach. He can’t kick the ball in the net for his players.

However, his signings have been bad. If you’re going to sign garbage players from other countries, might as well sign young Canadian players from L1O or the PLSQ.

It was obvious at the start of the reason that the signings weren’t good enough to be competitive. Part of that is likely money constraints, but there is way too much deadwood. What was the point of signing someone like Jamie Siaj? Jordan Haynes was horrific last year at Pacific and yet he’s our first offseason signing. How are these signings not on PDS?

If Jared Ulloa is back again next year, I’ll scream.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Soccerpro2

[Bison44]

^^ Why worry about it eh? Our resident expert called it 6 years ago, all the rest was just a big circle jerk.  The team is done, might as well pack it up and get used to watching farm team NextPro while he regretfully tells us "i told u so".  

[Watchmen]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Valour can lose money but it can still be profitable for the organization if the stadium is making money. It's why owning a stadium is so important. 

[Aird25]

Wasn’t all the talk about the league’s longevity in relation to the long term broadcasting deal and upcoming World Cup? I don’t remember anyone back then really discussing the CSB deal, and certainly not in relation to increased interest and sponsorships for the national teams 

[Markoaleks]

3k people at an average of 20 per for a ticket 

60k gross office

likely another 60k (or more ) on food/merch 

I was recently at a Bomber game- different level of attendance and spend to be sure the 20 double rums add up 

stadium essentially rent free to the team 

can’t see how they let the team go away-the above revenue total projection is far better than the place being dark for all the CPL games 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Markoaleks

[Big_M]

if winnipeg football club has an operating agreement for ig field similar to oseg for td place then their idea at this point is probably to sell the cpl franchise to a group that would rent ig field for its home games

[K Edgar]

4 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

PDS has been fine as a coach. He can’t kick the ball in the net for his players.

However, his signings have been bad. If you’re going to sign garbage players from other countries, might as well sign young Canadian players from L1O or the PLSQ.

It was obvious at the start of the reason that the signings weren’t good enough to be competitive. Part of that is likely money constraints, but there is way too much deadwood. What was the point of signing someone like Jamie Siaj? Jordan Haynes was horrific last year at Pacific and yet he’s our first offseason signing. How are these signings not on PDS?

If Jared Ulloa is back again next year, I’ll scream.

I don't think Siaj and Ulloa will be back next year.  Attardo would have been better than either but local content seems to have no priority with the team.  After over doing local players in the 1st year they are afraid of getting burned.

Unfortunately, I would not be surprised if Haynes and Polisi have 2 year contracts and were on the first list of players Valour announce for 2024.

[top cheese]

I caught a couple of games recently. I've never seen a professional team so poor on the ball. They give the ball away so easily. What's worse is that they have no drive to win or at least give it a go. I am shocked that they get 3000 fans a game, it's legit hard to sit through 90m. 

I think the thing that is most frustrating is that it's the same song and dance every season the team has been in the league. There's no investment into the club by ownership. Their International recruitment is a disaster every season. They struggle to bring quality Canadian players into the team. They are always dogged with injuries every season, probably because the turf at IG is terrible for soccer. They have a massive roster turnover every season and never able to fill out a proper squad. 

Ownership needs to make a decision weather they are in or out with this program or the team is done. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, Markoaleks said:

3k people at an average of 20 per for a ticket 

60k gross office

likely another 60k (or more ) on food/merch...

The problem with that sort of analysis is that although they are announcing 3000+ it is blindingly obvious that most of the actual crowds have been significantly lower than that. If you check out the acres of empty seats in the highlights for the last game, it could be 1000+ on a tickets scanned count but if so certainly not by a huge margin.

That means the food/merch income stream is probably less lucrative than you are assuming and questions have to be asked about how the 3k numbers are being achieved on a tickets distributed count. Bombers fans having to take Valour tickets they don't wind up using in "ransom pack" type offers? Sponsorship revenues being converted into ticket sales that the sponsor can distribute as they see fit? Outright freebies or very generous group sale discounts to youth clubs? etc etc

[jonovision]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The problem with that sort of analysis is that although they are announcing 3000+ it is blindingly obvious that most of the actual crowds have been significantly lower than that. If you check out the acres of empty seats in the highlights for the last game, it could be 1000+ on a tickets scanned count but if so certainly not by a huge margin.

That means the food/merch income stream is probably less lucrative than you are assuming and questions have to be asked about how the 3k numbers are being achieved on a tickets distributed count. Bombers fans having to take Valour tickets they don't wind up using in "ransom pack" type offers? Sponsorship revenues being converted into ticket sales that the sponsor can distribute as they see fit? Outright freebies or very generous group sale discounts to youth clubs? etc etc

Your eye in the sky analysis may be close to true for Wednesday, but for much of the season the stated numbers seemed pretty close to true from my own perspective in the seats.

What the numbers say to me is that there is a decent STH base (2000+) and that on Wednesday and one or two other matches this year, many have chosen to stay home. Which is a problem in itself.

[K Edgar]

10 hours ago, top cheese said:

I caught a couple of games recently. I've never seen a professional team so poor on the ball. They give the ball away so easily. What's worse is that they have no drive to win or at least give it a go. I am shocked that they get 3000 fans a game, it's legit hard to sit through 90m. 

Agreed they are not the most entertaining team to watch.  But I would disagree on some points.  Valour does not give the ball away more than other CanPL teams.  Vancouver gave the ball away constantly, hence Valour 67% possession in the most recent game.  It is not lack of drive.  Valour is doing well considering their level of talent -- far below that of Forge (2nd most recent game) so the desire is there.  The single issue that has moved Valour from playoff contender to last place is goal scoring.  It has been an issue all year and has not been solved.  Selemani was not the solution and de Brienne up front only opens up new issues at the back.  Baquero in a more offensive role looked lost last game.  Part of this issue is the lack of left footed players.  Constantly one player is on their off wing.  Watching Ulloa on left wing last game was painful.

[Ansem]

MLS interest for Rayane Yesli who dir take away Sirois spot as #1 in 2022. He trained with French club Ajaccio last winter

 

[Bison44]

If there is interest in Yesli, there is hope for every other Keeper in the league.  

[Cheeta]

Definitely a project player but I suppose most 'keepers are.   Overall he's been more good than awful and have to admit his kicking has improved.  (Of course it couldn't get worse).

We'll see.  At least another year in CanPL for the man seems a good idea to my mind, getting those minutes in.