FC Edmonton - 2022 Season Thread

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

1986 was the centenary of the founding of the city of Vancouver. Hosting Expo '86 was the centrepiece of the centennial celebrations. The 86ers name was a nod to the city's founding year, with the added significance of the club being formed in the centennial year. Having 86 original investors was just a gimmick to play on the name.

Yah I don't doubt it. Sounds gimmicky. I only brought it up to confirm that it was a large group of investors that started the team

[yothat2]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:40 AM, Ansem said:

Wow! FC Edmonton still carrying debt from "Pre-CanPL" - no wonder they are hard to sell.

As I said before - the league dodged a bullet by not having OSEG based on that. Unless a new owner is willing to pay the debt or the league does, makes more sense for an investor to start fresh somewhere else unless it's a rich local who really really want a club in his city/

Even then, I'd fold the club and restart from scratch if I was a rich local investor

why are they even selling the team for anything for an $1 dollar. As long as they have interest, willing to invest and long-term vision. 

 

Heard the CPL was close just two months ago, August 2022 with an interested party but the deal fell through. Didn't get any more details on what was the hold up. 

[Cblake]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:16 PM, Ansem said:

Good point - Maybe someone can remind me of the issue with broadcasting/equipment they wanted to do on their own (I might completely be wrong) - doesn't sound like they were 100% all in like the other clubs seems to be. I think the league dodged a huge bullet by not having OSEG with them as I'm convinced they'd be constantly trying to go against the flow.

For a league to succeed, you need all parties to be all in as much as possible in this era. MLS might have been onto something with the "Single-Entity" structure.

The notion of single entity is an interesting on. In most cases its smaller leagues where there are less partners than teams. In the case of MLS , after the 2001 season the league actually folded for a short period of time before Lamar Hunt convinced everyone they should push forward. After contraction of Miami and Tampa the 2002 season had 10 teams with AEG overseeing 6 teams, The Hunt Family 3 and Robert Kraft had New England. Today is it one operator/partner/group for each team. I really do not think if MLS dissolved the single entity much would change based on where things stand. The one thing that stands out is that FIFA views MLS as one entity and thus that is what allows for trades within the league outside the two transfer windows. 

The one thing that does stick out is that John Pugh is still with OSEG and not a partner in the CPL where it's Jeff Hunt was the one to get involved, John is the soccer guy by the way. 

[CDNFootballer]

22 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Yah but I had heard that along with that there was a debt associated with the Whitecaps. Maybe that was part of why there couldn't be an agreement. I remember Bobaduzzi saying that in an interview somewhere. The name 86 along with the year was also in reference to 86 investors or something like that

Think the caps debt wouldn't have come into play with the team folded already and the group just wanting the name only,  but can't remember who owned the name at the time and how they came to. The 86ers did try to buy the name multiple times until they were finally successful many years later.

I actually have newspaper clippings of 86ers articles in my memorabilia collection from when I was a kid collecting, have to dig them out and look at them someday to get the complete story.

Edited October 15, 2022 by CDNFootballer

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 10/15/2022 at 2:05 PM, Treppy2 said:

Never thought I would read the name Enver Hoxha on a Canadian football forum!

ETA: Especially on this thread!

Probably should have used North Korea as the analogy because nobody under 50 was likely to know what I was referring to but talk of the 86ers had me back in the 80s pre-internet when listening to short wave radio from behind the Iron Curtain was still something people in the west did for a hobby.

Radio Tirana was notorious for being the most extreme in propaganda terms and had a bit of a cult following. Radio Berlin International attempting to explain why the Berlin Wall was a good thing also had its moments but wasn't quite up there with Enver's cult of personality.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Treppy2]

15 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Probably should have used North Korea as the analogy because nobody under 50 was likely to know what I was referring to but talk of the 86ers had me back in the 80s pre-internet when listening to short wave radio from behind the Iron Curtain was still something people in the west did for a hobby.

Radio Tirana was notorious for being the most extreme in propaganda terms and had a bit of a cult following. Radio Berlin International attempting to explain why the Berlin Wall was a good thing also had its moment but wasn't quite up there with Enver's cult of personality.

I’m not under 50, so I got the Enver reference.

In the mid-80s for some reason I became a fan of English ranting poet Attila the Stockbroker - even saw him play once here in Ottawa. He had a fetish about Albania, so through him I learned about the country and Enver Hoxha.

Fortunately Attila was a big football fan - Nuneaton Borough, England, Partizani Tirana and Albania - otherwise this post would be even more off topic than it already is.

Let’s now return to Edmonton FC.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Winding things back to the subject matter and away from the one true anti-Revisionist leader of Marxist-Leninist thought and bunker builder extraodinaire it's interesting that the Faths appear to still be able to insist that any new owner has to take their pre-CanPL liabilities on board even after they walked away from running the team on a day-to-day basis and left the league having to pay the bills. That suggests they were able to have some unusually favourable terms written into whatever they signed (better not say franchise agreement) when they agreed to join CanPL back in 2018.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

So the argument here appears to be that the Faths may be able to block a new Edmonton expansion club in CanPL from playing at Clarke Stadium (or perhaps even any other City of Edmonton facility?) if a sale of FCE doesn't unfold in a manner that meets with their approval.

Think that implies the amount of accummulated debt the Faths are looking to hand over to any buyer is north of $5 million rather than the "10 to 15" bit?

Edited October 17, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[shermanator]

That Sandor interview paints a bleak picture of domestic soccer in Edmonton.

It's a shame that the Fath's invested a lot of money into a club when others did not want to, and somehow left professional soccer worse off in Edmonton than it was before their involvement. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by shermanator

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

 

[toontownman]

Rollins sniping on the CPL? 

[Free kick]

Lowetide and Jamieson: October 27: Hour 4 - TSN.ca

 

A whole segment dedicated to FCE.   Some very enlightening discussions and very good points raised,

It includes a 15 minute interview with Sandor.  Starts at 1:45

Edited October 28, 2022 by Free kick

[shermanator]

Same tired points Sandor has been making all year. The only real legitimate point made about the ownership situation was that FC Edmonton is a harder club to buy than other CPL clubs would be because of the debt from the NASL years. Why a club with large debts and a complete inability to make money would be undesirable to a potential owner should be pretty clear.

But everything else was just a rant about how others are to blame for the club's failures.

Cavalry doesn't have the appeal of the Cosmos or Rowdies. Games are at the wrong times. It's the league's fault Fath put a bunch of money into his production company while they struck a deal with OneSoccer. The club needs to copy what other clubs like the Stingers are doing to get people in. Seating should be GA at Clarke. Rabble rabble rabble.

There seems to be no willingness in the Edmonton market to look at the ownership group and the people who ran the club over the first 11 years and realize that they refused to put out a good product that drew people in and kept them there. None. 

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

Same tired points Sandor has been making all year. The only real legitimate point made about the ownership situation was that FC Edmonton is a harder club to buy than other CPL clubs would be because of the debt from the NASL years. Why a club with large debts and a complete inability to make money would be undesirable to a potential owner should be pretty clear.

But everything else was just a rant about how others are to blame for the club's failures.

Cavalry doesn't have the appeal of the Cosmos or Rowdies. Games are at the wrong times. It's the league's fault Fath put a bunch of money into his production company while they struck a deal with OneSoccer. The club needs to copy what other clubs like the Stingers are doing to get people in. Seating should be GA at Clarke. Rabble rabble rabble.

There seems to be no willingness in the Edmonton market to look at the ownership group and the people who ran the club over the first 11 years and realize that they refused to put out a good product that drew people in and kept them there. None. 

I can't imagine that the bolded bit would be even remotely true.

[CDNFootballer]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

I can't imagine that the bolded bit would be even remotely true.

When the New York Cosmos came to Edmonton to play FCE in the NASL days they were the best attended games for the most part, drawing close to and over 4K for some of them.

For the casual fans it seems it is true in large part, but the CPL hasn't had many years for its premier teams to build and gain stature and recognition at this point in time yet either.

[yothat2]

is there anyone more annoying than Steven Sandor.  Not an tax expert. The liabilities of fc edmonton won't be included in any asset sale of the franchise. Sandor should talk to an tax accountant. The faths will roll up the fc edmonton and take the losses to their net income like Donald trump tax returns. the sale will be based on the goodwill of the business and franchiser rights / williness to invest in an stadium but Sandor has his same ego straw arguments. 

just because the CPL didn't hire you. doesn't mean you can't cover usports, major league and all the local kids trialing and playing abroad

[shermanator]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

I can't imagine that the bolded bit would be even remotely true.

That's what he's been arguing though. That the New York Cosmos with Raul (despite him not actually playing in Edmonton because of the turf) and the Tampa Bay Rowdies with Joe Cole are bigger draws than Cavalry or Valour.

[yothat2]

28 minutes ago, shermanator said:

That's what he's been arguing though. That the New York Cosmos with Raul (despite him not actually playing in Edmonton because of the turf) and the Tampa Bay Rowdies with Joe Cole are bigger draws than Cavalry or Valour.

who even remembers that ... when there's the mls signing the likes of Zlatan and bale etc

[Free kick]

6 hours ago, shermanator said:

Same tired points Sandor has been making all year. The only real legitimate point made about the ownership situation was that FC Edmonton is a harder club to buy than other CPL clubs would be because of the debt from the NASL years. Why a club with large debts and a complete inability to make money would be undesirable to a potential owner should be pretty clear.

But everything else was just a rant about how others are to blame for the club's failures.

Cavalry doesn't have the appeal of the Cosmos or Rowdies. Games are at the wrong times. It's the league's fault Fath put a bunch of money into his production company while they struck a deal with OneSoccer. The club needs to copy what other clubs like the Stingers are doing to get people in. Seating should be GA at Clarke. Rabble rabble rabble.

There seems to be no willingness in the Edmonton market to look at the ownership group and the people who ran the club over the first 11 years and realize that they refused to put out a good product that drew people in and kept them there. None. 

In relation to the bolded point.   He did mention the names of players (alongside the names of teams) who played in the NASL.  Names do matter in all sports and especially to soccer fans.   One could argue that someone who recognizes Marcos Senna and Joe Cole is a soccer fan more so than someone who can't tell the difference between those players that I mentioned and Shamit Shome and Luke Singh.    Sports, as an entertainment, is very much about names.   And knowing names doesnt make you fickle.  Rather, it makes you a fan. 

The Toronto Lynx struggled to draw 5k at Centennial when we use to go.   Bad location and other factors impacted that but when they moved a new league, they ended up with a waiting list for Season seats.  Are we to suggest that those very many people who never bothered going to Centenial are not soccer fans?  No way!, I have met and talked to tons of them who know the game very well and are very adept at tactical discussions and knowing the game and it's history.  Its just that they are not interested in going to watch what they view as poor soccer and bunch of no names playing in a league that is too obscure.  

So, his point about what happened in Edmonton, is the reverse of what happened in Toronto.  But for the exact same reasons because names (ie,: player names and team names) do matter.  Its what they call Branding.  And i agree 100 percent with Sandor on that point.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Free kick

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Free kick said:

In relation to the bolded point.   He did mention the names of players (alongside the names of teams) who played in the NASL.  Names do matter in all sports and especially to soccer fans.   One could argue that someone who recognizes Marcos Senna and Joe Cole is a soccer fan more so than someone who can't tell the difference between those players that I mentioned and Shamit Shome and Luke Singh.    Sports, as an entertainment, is very much about names.   And knowing names doesnt make you fickle.  Rather, it makes you a fan. 

The Toronto Lynx struggled to draw 5k at Centennial when we use to go.   Bad location and other factors impacted that but when they moved a new league, they ended up with a waiting list for Season seats.  Are we to suggest that those very many people who never bothered going to Centenial are not soccer fans?  No way!, I have met and talked to tons of them who know the game very well and are very adept at tactical discussions and knowing the game and it's history.  Its just that they are not interested in going to watch what they view as poor soccer and bunch of no names playing in a league that is too obscure.  

So, his point about what happened in Edmonton, is the reverse of what happened in Toronto.  But for the exact same reasons because names (ie,: player names and team names) do matter.  Its what they call Branding.  And i agree 100 percent with Sandor on that point.

Are you trying to tell me that there are a significant number of people who would be willing to pay to watch a washed-up holding midfielder play but wouldn't got to watch an up-and-coming, local youngster play, even though the local kid was probably a better player at that point in time? Ridiculous.

Same with attacking midfielder, Joe Cole, who, by the time he signed with Tampa Bay, had just washed out of the English 3rd division and could count his professional goals from the past half a decade on one hand?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:31 PM, SthMelbRed said:

Are you trying to tell me that there are a significant number of people who would be willing to pay to watch a washed-up holding midfielder play but wouldn't got to watch an up-and-coming, local youngster play, even though the local kid was probably a better player at that point in time? Ridiculous.

Same with attacking midfielder, Joe Cole, who, by the time he signed with Tampa Bay, had just washed out of the English 3rd division and could count his professional goals from the past half a decade on one hand?

Lets be fair, Joe Cole, my favourite player as a teenager, was never a huge scorer in decent leagues.  He was one of the most creative English players ever until Chelsea (Mourinho mostly) coached a lot of that out of him in pursuit of a - to be fair, very effective - system.  Always looked for the pass first. 

That said, he began with the Rowdies a little over three years after scoring a goal that I saw from Chav Corner in the Boleyn Ground that put West Ham up on Spurs. (Unfortunately then Bale took over).  He then played twenty games in the season after that.  He was pretty broken then but its not like he was that far removed from contributing at the top level in 2016.

Edited October 30, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[CDNFootballer]

18 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Are you trying to tell me that there are a significant number of people who would be willing to pay to watch a washed-up holding midfielder play but wouldn't got to watch an up-and-coming, local youngster play, even though the local kid was probably a better player at that point in time? Ridiculous.

Same with attacking midfielder, Joe Cole, who, by the time he signed with Tampa Bay, had just washed out of the English 3rd division and could count his professional goals from the past half a decade on one hand?

The MLS "retirement league" signing of older stars on the decline showed it did create interest and bring in fans to an extent. Not so much the diehards, but the casual fans who mostly don't know who the local youngster even is.

[SthMelbRed]

20 minutes ago, CDNFootballer said:

The MLS "retirement league" signing of older stars on the decline showed it did create interest and bring in fans to an extent. Not so much the diehards, but the casual fans who mostly don't know who the local youngster even is.

I'm willing to bet that if you asked a casual fan 10 years ago to name the stars of Spain's Euro and World Cup winning teams, they'd hit a blank long before they ever got to Marcos Senna. By the time he rolled into Edmonton, he was pushing 40. Show me one guy who bought a ticket just to see Senna play, but wouldn't countenance buying a ticket on any other day and I'll show you an imbecile.

At least the MLS retirement league grabbed players who were well-known to casuals at some point.

Edited October 29, 2022 by SthMelbRed

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Bit ironic that our resident plastic scouser with a penchant for spewing personal abuse from behind the safety of a keyboard is questioning this stuff despite the way he latched onto an overseas club he has no obvious reason to support other than for gloryhunting reasons.

Joe Cole had over 50 England caps. That's not exactly the same as showing up to see Joao Morelli and is going to draw in not just some English ex-pats but plenty of plastic gloryhunting fans of English Premiership clubs. The NASL was a definite step up from CanPL in budgetary terms.

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Bit ironic that our resident plastic scouser with a penchant for spewing personal abuse from behind the safety of a keyboard is questioning this stuff despite the way he latched onto an overseas club he has no obvious reason to support other than for gloryhunting reasons.

Joe Cole had over 50 England caps. That's not exactly the same as showing up to see Joao Morelli and is going to draw in not just some English ex-pats but plenty of plastic gloryhunting fans of English Premiership clubs. The NASL was a definite step up from CanPL in budgetary terms.

Go fuck yourself, dickhead. So much for your bold claims of having me on ignore.