New Format CCL 2023/2024

[SpursFlu]

All im thinking is Pacific could be in group play with just say Sounders, Atlanta United, Tigres and Club America 

How is this anything but amazing 

[CanadaFan123]

This is incredible news for CPL. There are going to be clubs in the league every year that guarantee multiple matches against MLS and Liga MX competition. League competition will heat up for these spots and higher level talent will join the league to play on this stage. 

It's easy to see the next Davies or David playing CPL before their move to Europe with this format. If I'm a parent/agent and I know that my child/player is going to Europe when they turn 18 I'm wanting them playing day-in day-out in CPL, Vs Cup and CCL and being allowed to move on. If the same kid is in MLS they're likely finding minutes hard to come by and a transfer being made difficult. 

[Yohan]

Great for CPL teams to be able to showcase themselves against MLS and Liga MX teams in group stages, even if it'll be a minnow vs giants. More scouting and attention on CPL.

Also saves CPL teams a little bit of money on travel, instead of going down to Central America

Edited February 5, 2021 by Yohan

[Big_M]

Could see it coming..montagliani does it again with the huge number of teams..he just doesnt get it..gotta say it again and again: get him out of there

[Ivan]

3 hours ago, Big_M said:

Could see it coming..montagliani does it again with the huge number of teams..he just doesnt get it..gotta say it again and again: get him out of there

Why do you say that?

[dnina10]

2 hours ago, Ivan said:

Why do you say that?

Because the man clearly doesn't know what he's doing. Making groups of 5? Absolute madness. Asking for West Germany vs Austria 1982 to happen again. Allowing for 11 of the 16 knockout round spots for teams from North America? UEFAesque. That's one worse than right now. They should have a maximum of 8. This isn't as good as it may seem

Edited February 6, 2021 by dnina10

[narduch]

It's totally bloated and convoluted. 

Plus too many teams from USA and Mexico for a tournament that is supposed to be the Champions League. 

 

[Club Linesman]

As with most things in world soccer money makes the world go round.  Stadiums that hold 40 or 50000 put a lot more coins in Concacaf’s pocket.   So the more games involving Liga Mx and MLS the better for the bank.  And to be honest the best teams are in those leagues without doubt so there is some validity to giving them more spots at the moment.

Let’s just hope the increase in Concacaf revenue is used to make soccer better in the entire region and not to build Vic a mountain retreat in the Rockies or to make the rich leagues richer and widen the gap.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, dnina10 said:

Because the man clearly doesn't know what he's doing. Making groups of 5? Absolute madness. Asking for West Germany vs Austria 1982 to happen again. Allowing for 11 of the 16 knockout round spots for teams from North America? UEFAesque. That's one worse than right now. They should have a maximum of 8. This isn't as good as it may seem

In each group of 5, top 2 advance, 3rd goes to the repechage, the two best 4th place teams also go to the repechage, the worst two 4th place teams are eliminated, 5th place is eliminated.  All of those scenarios have to be sorted in only 4 matches.  They've built a ton of scenarios into this to make dead rubbers and collusion unlikely even with one team idle on the last day.

Vic said in the Wheeler interview (at the 12:00 mark) the chance of dead games is only 4%.  

 

As for the 11 teams, this isn't necessarily all his choice.  Politics ( the desire of Liga MX and MLS) and business (TV networks and sponsors)  tend to get what they want regardless of the region.  Just look at the changes UEFA are about to announce which will reportedly include berths for historically large clubs that missed qualification.  

 

 

[RJB]

I’m not a fan of not having each team home and away. That gives some clubs different advantages that could be solved by having each team home and away. The Europa League used to do this. 
 

But moreover, you can’t call it a Champions League and the then let so many teams in.  There’s the risk of having nearly half of Liga MZ, and a third of MLS. This is not a champions league, it’s a continental league.  Which is fine, don’t call it champions and then let in a (potentially) sub .500 team. 
 

I do like the regions though. It’s a lot of travel saved for some smaller clubs. And sorry, but Pacific FC is not a draw in Trinidad, so this is just fine by me. Same way the other direction.

[Ivan]

9 hours ago, narduch said:

It's totally bloated and convoluted. 

Plus too many teams from USA and Mexico for a tournament that is supposed to be the Champions League. 

 

I honestly don't give a shit about the US & Mexican teams.  I'm happy for the Canadian content, especially what this will do for the CPL.

[nfitz]

On 2/4/2021 at 10:45 PM, Watchmen said:

I actually think CONCACAF recognizing the Leagues Cup is an interesting aspect of it, as it's not something they control and sort of legitimizes a rival competition even while trying to ensure it's still below the Champions League.

It is interesting. But with up to 18 MLS/Liga MX teams making it to the Champions League every year ... and another 16 in Leagues Cup ... (with the 2020 and 2021 format) gosh, that could be 17 Liga MX (or 18 MLS) teams playing in post-season tournaments.

There's only 18 teams in Liga MX! I'd have thought this would simply have replaced Leagues Cup as well. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

37 minutes ago, nfitz said:

It is interesting. But with up to 18 MLS/Liga MX teams making it to the Champions League every year ... and another 16 in Leagues Cup ... (with the 2020 and 2021 format) gosh, that could be 17 Liga MX (or 18 MLS) teams playing in post-season tournaments.

There's only 18 teams in Liga MX! I'd have thought this would simply have replaced Leagues Cup as well. 

The only reason for the existence of  Leagues Cup is it is owned and controlled by MLS and Liga MX as opposed to CONCACAF.  For fans like us, it seems like a simple choice to prioritize CCL and scrap Leagues Cup and Campeones Cup but to the club owners they view the world differently. The best analogy would be owning your own business as opposed to working for someone else.  

[Raven]

More details on the format:

https://www.si.com/soccer/2022/06/01/concacaf-champions-league-2024-qualification-format-criteria

 

"Canadian Championship (one): Champion, runner-up or semifinalist.

The “higher-ranked” semifinalist, based on unspecified criteria, will earn the berth if the two finalists have qualified via MLS, the Leagues Cup or the Canadian Premier League. It’s unclear what would happen to the slot if all four semifinalists somehow qualify from elsewhere, which might be possible if Toronto FC, CF Montreal and Vancouver Whitecaps advance via MLS and/or the Leagues Cup.

Canadian Premier League (two): Champion and best regular-season record.

If one team does the double, the next-best regular-season finisher earns the berth."

[narduch]

Concacaf version of this story.

https://www.concacaf.com/en/champions-league/news/concacaf-announces-qualification-criteria-for-confederation-s-expanded-champions-league-starting-in-2024/

[Shway]

Miracle Canadian qualification example situation would be:

CPL Champ - Forge FC
Regular Season Winner - Cavalry FC
Canadian Champion - Pacific FC
Next best club - Vancouver Whitecaps
Leagues Cup berth - Toronto FC
Conference Winner - Montreal

This will never happen though.

[narduch]

Not surprising news. But today the CPL confirmed that its 2 spots will go to the Regular season winner and the Champion.

[Ivan]

9 hours ago, narduch said:

Not surprising news. But today the CPL confirmed that its 2 spots will go to the Regular season winner and the Champion.

Did they announce which runner up will get in if the same team wins both?

[narduch]

9 hours ago, Ivan said:

Did they announce which runner up will get in if the same team wins both?

I didn't see that. I assume it's the 2 finalists.

Also wonder what happens if a CPL club wins the Voyageurs Cup and also qualifies through the league

Edited January 31, 2023 by narduch

[Kent]

7 hours ago, narduch said:

I didn't see that. I assume it's the 2 finalists.

Also wonder what happens if a CPL club wins the Voyageurs Cup and also qualifies through the league

Because of your second line, my assumption and hope is that they fill in the remaining spots with the best finishing non-qualified CPL team from the regular season. Otherwise you potentially end up picking between 2 different semi final losers, or conditionally picking teams between Voyageurs Cup placement, Playoff placement, and CPL regular season, depending on what combination of 2 competitions a team won.

So if/when York United win the treble this year (Voyageurs Cup, Regular season, and playoffs), Valour gets in for being 2nd place in the regular standings, and Vancouver FC gets in for being 3rd place in the regular standings.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

Because of your second line, my assumption and hope is that they fill in the remaining spots with the best finishing non-qualified CPL team from the regular season. Otherwise you potentially end up picking between 2 different semi final losers, or conditionally picking teams between Voyageurs Cup placement, Playoff placement, and CPL regular season, depending on what combination of 2 competitions a team won.

So if/when York United win the treble this year (Voyageurs Cup, Regular season, and playoffs), Valour gets in for being 2nd place in the regular standings, and Vancouver FC gets in for being 3rd place in the regular standings.

Someone mentioned in the CPL sub-forum that the other V Cup finalist would get the spot.

But what happens if the Voyageurs Cup winner gets seeded in the CC: draw and the CPL reps aren't? Why would the winner of the Canadian Championship want to give up their seeding?

[Kent]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Someone mentioned in the CPL sub-forum that the other V Cup finalist would get the spot.

But what happens if the Voyageurs Cup winner gets seeded in the CC: draw and the CPL reps aren't? Why would the winner of the Canadian Championship want to give up their seeding?

It becomes very messy very quickly with that kind of stuff. Let's say the V Cup final was between Toronto and Montreal. Toronto wins, they make it to the CCL.

Then York United win the regular season, so they get a spot. Then York United make it to the final against Valour. If Valour wins, CPL has 2 representatives in the Champions League, fun times for the league and the commissioner/president is happy. But if York United wins, Valour is out, and instead Montreal gets the final spot? Why do they get a spot that was meant for a competition they aren't even a part of? Do we now get into conspiracy theory realm that if Valour wins, it's because the league wanted it to happen so they get 2 spots?

Yuck!

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

It becomes very messy very quickly with that kind of stuff. Let's say the V Cup final was between Toronto and Montreal. Toronto wins, they make it to the CCL.

Then York United win the regular season, so they get a spot. Then York United make it to the final against Valour. If Valour wins, CPL has 2 representatives in the Champions League, fun times for the league and the commissioner/president is happy. But if York United wins, Valour is out, and instead Montreal gets the final spot? Why do they get a spot that was meant for a competition they aren't even a part of? Do we now get into conspiracy theory realm that if Valour wins, it's because the league wanted it to happen so they get 2 spots?

Yuck!

2 more wrenches into all this are Leagues Cup and MLS....

[Kent]

44 minutes ago, narduch said:

2 more wrenches into all this are Leagues Cup and MLS....

Cripes, yeah I haven't even been thinking about that yet. MLS Cup champs and Leagues Cup champs enter at a later round than the Voyageurs Cup champs, so presumably if a team wins MLS Cup or Leagues Cup, and also wins the Voyageurs Cup, then at that point you would have to let the finalist for the Voyageurs Cup take the V Cup spot. If say Vancouver wins the Leagues Cup, and TFC wins MLS Cup, and then they play each other in the V Cup final, then we have a situation where we need to decide between 2 semi final losing teams. What do you do, tie breakers like goal difference, goals scored, fair play points?

And that's the easier decision. What if the Voyageurs Cup gets 1 of the 4 MLS spots that aren't the MLS Cup champions? Those spots all enter in the same round, so there isn't an obvious hierarchical ranking. I think all Mexican, MLS, Leagues Cup, US, and Canada spots have to be put into one giant hierarchical list that all 3 of those nations agree on. You have the Clausura champs against the US Open Cup champs in the Leagues Cup final, and one of the semi finalists from Leagues Cup won the Voyageurs Cup. Nightmare.

[RJB]

Any time a team qualifies twice, one spot should simply go to the next highest ranked team in the league.  So if a team wins the league and the playoffs, second place in the league gets in.  If a team wins the league, and the playoffs, and the Voyageurs Cup, then second and third in the league should get in.  The particular trophy runner-up should not get in that way, so as to avoid MLS teams getting one of Canada's spots by default.  Win and you're in, or else it goes the league way.

Edited February 4, 2023 by RJB