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Shway

Should the Voyageurs Cup be Awarded to the CPL Team with best Regular Season Record?

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This is a crossover post from here.

Essentially the question comes from the reality that the CPL will be awarding the first ever championship trophy to either of Forge or Cavalry. However the reality is the Cavalry have not received an award for their best record in the regular season. The Voyageurs Cup was made on that promise, however through the years it turned to a cup competition. Should it return to being awarded to the team with the best record in the CPL, and a new trophy created for the Canadian Championship.  

I'm interested in hearing some thoughts. Especially from some of the founders (if they are still around).  

Edited by Shway

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I think it should be like the A-League where one piece of silverware is given to the best overall record on the campaign and another is given to the winner of a playoff series. 

Annnnnnnnnnnd I also think that both should be custom designed and not stock items from Things Engraved. 

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9 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Think you'll find that the Voyageurs Cup has been signed over to the CSA and is no longer controlled by the fan group.

Trust me I'm aware of the logistics surrounding the trophy. I went back to 2008 to read all the happenings. Still think its possible. 

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2 minutes ago, m-g-williams said:

I think it should be like the A-League where one piece of silverware is given to the best overall record on the campaign and another is given to the winner of a playoff series. 

Annnnnnnnnnnd I also think that both should be custom designed and not stock items from Things Engraved. 

I agreee.

I forgot to add that the thought came from exactly what you said. The ontario soccer leagues mens league cup is the voyageurs cup with a different base. 

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55 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

No.

The universe evolved as it should and the V's Cup lives with the Champions of Canada.  Contested cup style, across multiple leagues, by Canadian based teams.  It's perfect where it is.

I agree with this for now. The VCup would be far less entertaining without the American franchises currently located in Canadian cities.

However, in my ideal world those American franchises will be relocated to American cities (where they belong) and the vacated markets will have a new CPL team or two, thus making CPL stronger. If CPL endures, I think that will come in time.

At which point I think the VCup will become Canada's equivalent to the FA Cup. In short, I like the knock out format.

Edited by Lofty

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1 hour ago, Shway said:

This is a crossover post from here.

Essentially the question comes from the reality that the CPL will be awarding the first ever championship trophy to either of Forge or Cavalry. However the reality is the Cavalry have not received an award for their best record in the regular season. The Voyageurs Cup was made on that promise, however through the years it turned to a cup competition. Should it return to being awarded to the team with the best record in the CPL, and a new trophy created for the Canadian Championship.  

I'm interested in hearing some thoughts. Especially from some of the founders (if they are still around).  

There were actually TWO regular seasons -- Spring and Fall -- and Cavalry should have been given a trophy of some sort for each win. I think is is a big CPL FAIL that this did not happen.

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I think the V Cup is exactly right, as is.  The V Cup Competition/Canadian Championship is our equivalent to the FA Cup or any other storied national cup competition and I don’t see it as a second class trophy or competition in any way, or unworthy of the V Cup trophy.  

Does the CPL deserve a legacy trophy that spans multiple seasons?  Of course - and everyone reading the other trophy thread knows where I stand on this.  But we should get another one and establish a second strong tradition rather than trying to cannibalize the existing one.  

Edited by dyslexic nam

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6 hours ago, RS said:

It already is that, and has been for several years.

The FA Cup is not the "English Championship". The Premier League has that privilege.

When the CPL has that privilege in Canada, the VCup will then be equivalent to the English FA Cup: the most important knock out competition in the country and a major honour in its own right; but not the championship of the country.

I make the point to emphasize that the VCup will not be devalued in any meaningful way when the American franchises are gone, even though it will no longer be the "Canadian Championship".

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9 hours ago, Lofty said:

The FA Cup is not the "English Championship". The Premier League has that privilege.

When the CPL has that privilege in Canada, the VCup will then be equivalent to the English FA Cup: the most important knock out competition in the country and a major honour in its own right; but not the championship of the country.

I make the point to emphasize that the VCup will not be devalued in any meaningful way when the American franchises are gone, even though it will no longer be the "Canadian Championship".

How is the V Cup not currently “the most important knock out competition in the country”?

It’ll never be exactly like the FA Cup but it’s as close as we’re going to get. You’re splitting hairs over nothing here. The V Cup is already our FA Cup.

You also need to stop calling the three MLS clubs American franchises. They are Canadian franchises in an American league. 

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Seems everyone other than the original poster are on the same page, but I will add this point. Even though the CSA now controls the V Cup, it still has the Voyageurs name on it. I take that to represent the fans across the country. All fans across the country lucky enough to have a pro team or a team in a D3 provincial league is involved in the Canadian Championship, hoping their team can win the Voyageurs Cup. By making it for the CPL champions you are excluding fans from Vancouver, Ottawa, and fans of TFC and the Impact (although they do have other local options that can qualify for the Canadian Championship).

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2 hours ago, Kent said:

Seems everyone other than the original poster are on the same page, but I will add this point. Even though the CSA now controls the V Cup, it still has the Voyageurs name on it. I take that to represent the fans across the country. All fans across the country lucky enough to have a pro team or a team in a D3 provincial league is involved in the Canadian Championship, hoping their team can win the Voyageurs Cup. By making it for the CPL champions you are excluding fans from Vancouver, Ottawa, and fans of TFC and the Impact (although they do have other local options that can qualify for the Canadian Championship).

If the next eighteen years is anything like the previous eighteen, as a Vancouver fan I might take that.  Save myself a looooot of heartbreak. 

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On 11/2/2019 at 8:46 AM, RS said:

How is the V Cup not currently “the most important knock out competition in the country”?

It’ll never be exactly like the FA Cup but it’s as close as we’re going to get. You’re splitting hairs over nothing here. The V Cup is already our FA Cup.

You also need to stop calling the three MLS clubs American franchises. They are Canadian franchises in an American league. 

Another strawman. Those seem to crop up frequently on here. Where did I say the VCup is not the most important knock out competition in the county? Nowhere!

You are being obtuse. Why is it so hard for you to understand that the VCup today is the Championship of the country and is therefore not the same as the English FA Cup, which is NOT the championship of the country? It is OBVIOUS!

My whole point was that when the franchises of American football leagues leave Canada, the VCup will not be very much diminished in importance because it will THEN have the status of the English FA Cup, which is widely regarded as the SECOND most important trophy in the country (not the FIRST, which is the status the VCup currently occupies, and which is why it is NOT currently equivalent to the English FA Cup).

Sigh.

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2 hours ago, Lofty said:

...when the franchises of American football leagues leave Canada....

That should be if, and in Canada our sport is called soccer. The CSA gave up the fight on that decades ago. Beyond that if the most prestigious leagues in hockey, baseball, basketball and lacrosse can be cross-border, it's not at all clear why that should not also be the case in soccer, if FIFA are willing to go with the flow on how sports operate in North America as they have done for over 50 years now.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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6 hours ago, Lofty said:

Another strawman. Those seem to crop up frequently on here. Where did I say the VCup is not the most important knock out competition in the county? Nowhere!

First off, you need to look up the word "strawman" before throwing it around in here so casually.

Anyway, you're now denying that you said the V Cup is not the most important knock out competition in the country? That's strange, because my first response to you was when you wrote this (emphasis mine): "When the CPL has that privilege in Canada, the VCup will then be equivalent to the English FA Cup: the most important knock out competition in the country and a major honour in its own right; but not the championship of the country."

You didn't explicitly say that the the V Cup isn't the most important knock out competition in the country, but you heavily implied that it isn't currently so with that sentence above. You know, the one that kicked off this whole back and forth we're now engaged in.

6 hours ago, Lofty said:

You are being obtuse. Why is it so hard for you to understand that the VCup today is the Championship of the country and is therefore not the same as the English FA Cup, which is NOT the championship of the country? It is OBVIOUS!

The Voyageurs Cup (Canadian Championship) is organized by the Canadian Soccer Association (our FA) as the CSA's most prestigious club competition. Just as the English FA's most prestigious club competition is the FA Cup (because the Premier League trophy is organized by — wait for it — the Premier League and not the FA). 

Therefore, the V Cup is our FA Cup, even if our circumstances are not exactly the same as England's.

Your constant willful missing of that point is what's obtuse.

6 hours ago, Lofty said:

My whole point was that when the franchises of American football leagues leave Canada, the VCup will not be very much diminished in importance because it will THEN have the status of the English FA Cup, which is widely regarded as the SECOND most important trophy in the country (not the FIRST, which is the status the VCup currently occupies, and which is why it is NOT currently equivalent to the English FA Cup).

Sigh.

Your point was to disparage the three Canadian MLS clubs because they are part of an American league, but now you're backtracking. Regardless, there's no incentive for them to leave MLS, and won't be for at least a generation (if not more).

In other words, don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

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Its crazy how the FIFA rules, and laws change by region. For example Welsh teams playing in the English football league are barred from qualifying for European competition byway of the Welsh Cup. They can only earn it via the Premier League or FA Cup. 

I gotta say it's a weird feeling now that we have a league full of Canadian players and the Voyageurs Cup is lifted by teams who barely have/play Canadian players....and im a TFC fan. 

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27 minutes ago, Shway said:

Its crazy how the FIFA rules, and laws change by region. For example Welsh teams playing in the English football league are barred from qualifying for European competition byway of the Welsh Cup. They can only earn it via the Premier League or FA Cup. 

I gotta say it's a weird feeling now that we have a league full of Canadian players and the Voyageurs Cup is lifted by teams who barely have/play Canadian players....and im a TFC fan. 

Nature of the beast.  ManCity won the FA Cup last year and had 3 English players in the 18 man squad and were coached by a Spaniard.

Edited by dyslexic nam
Edited because I am an idiot.

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1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

Nature of the beast.  ManCity won the FA Cup last year and had 3 Canadians in the 18 man squad and were coached by a Spaniard.

Wow 3 Canadians, I knew we were good, but never thought we'd have that many players winning the FA Cup.

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22 minutes ago, Shway said:

Its crazy how the FIFA rules, and laws change by region. For example Welsh teams playing in the English football league are barred from qualifying for European competition byway of the Welsh Cup. They can only earn it via the Premier League or FA Cup. 

I gotta say it's a weird feeling now that we have a league full of Canadian players and the Voyageurs Cup is lifted by teams who barely have/play Canadian players....and im a TFC fan. 

TFC could win MLS and not be in the Champions League!

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