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Harry Paton

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Bigandy Grand Master

Bigandy

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I mostly agree with your post, but part of me feels we are making too much of Paton's age. He'll only be 25 this year.

To put it in perspective, if Paton found a club this year and played his way onto the national team, he would be the same age as Laryea when he first came into the national team. In other words, he's technically not too old. Look how much Laryea has grown as a player in these 3 years? There's plenty of runway left for a 25-year-old like Paton to grow his game. 

I'll be honest - I don't rate Zouhir. I am not saying he won't get better or make the national team, because I think both of these are possibilities, but I just look at his attributes as a player and I don't see much to be excited about, mostly because we already have similar players in the pipeline. Like I said before, he looks very competent, but so do Priso and Loturi. And take this with a grain of salt, because I haven't watched any of these guys much recently, but from what I recall all of these guys are basically the same player. I can acknowledge they are very young and may evolve and differ with time, but for now I don't see that happening - unlike with Nelson who I can now see as a very good central player, which I didn't expect.

Paton on the other hand seems to be a different player than Priso/Loturi/Zouhir, at least in my eyes (and @jordan mentioned the same thing earlier). From what I recall, he can be more of a deep-lying playmaker than destroyer, but really, he's more of a silky 8 (yet not quite a 10).  He can operate further up the field and is good in tight pockets. Personally, I am more excited about Paton than Zouhir based on what I think his attributes are, and this is despite the age difference. Our national team needs more technicians in midfield. 

Mind you, this is my memory of watching his highlights and the odd match over the years. The biggest question is can he shake off this recent debacle and make up for lost time. Fortunately, it's only been 8 months and the bulk of his career is in front of him. Canada fans should wish for his success. The more midfield depth we have, the better.   

Great points. This issue i have with patons age is the rebuilding it will take. He's likely to have regressed a bit and will need at least 1-2 years in scotland to get back to his best. that puts him in the 27 age bracket. Then he hopefully makes a step up which could end up with a transition period. After a yearish of transition, he could be playing a good level (like celtic) at 28. If hes at celtic, hes on the radar, but this is assuming quite an optimistic improvement which i dont see as likely. If hes making lateral moves until hes 28, its unlikely he ever gets to the level of a CMNT midfielder. Laryea moved positions and has incredible physical attributes that helped catapult him into the CMNT. Paton doesnt have attributes that are incredible but need a bit of refining that a positional change could facilitate. He just has to improve on his skillset which is more of a linear growth as opposed to exponential. 

I think prospects have a greater liklihood for exponential growth. They adjust to the mens game via physical development but also getting used to the speed of play. Paton won't experience this at 25. He surely has room to grow but its hard to see that exponential growth after a period of regression. 

I do agree and like that hes a silky 8. His style could compliment a staq, kone, paton midfield. It could be a midfield like RM. Modric, kroos, casemiro/tchoumeni. No true number 10 but guys who can contribute box to box. I'm excited about paton because of his style, but i am pessimistic his level will ever be high enough. 

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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55 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I do agree and like that hes a silky 8. His style could compliment a staq, kone, paton midfield. It could be a midfield like RM. Modric, kroos, casemiro/tchoumeni. No true number 10 but guys who can contribute box to box. I'm excited about paton because of his style, but i am pessimistic his level will ever be high enough. 

Agreed. I should have included that caveat. I forgot to mention that all I said was in the context of the SPL. It's a decent league, but it's not as if he was playing for Celtic or Rangers. He was doing it for Ross County, where it was only the final season where they challenged for the European places, but ultimately finishing 6th, which is not bad. The previous two seasons he was there saw them struggle similar to how they are right now.

Even if he was doing it for Aberdeen or Hearts, typically the best of the rest, I would be skeptical he could be a locked-in NT starter for Canada. I like his style of play and I fully agree that in theory he could be a nice complement to Staq and Kone in a 3-man midfield, but realistically he would be a "second option" to someone like Nelson, who I am far higher on., and who would also be a great compliment. This is not even taking into account the layoff....

59 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Great points. This issue i have with patons age is the rebuilding it will take. He's likely to have regressed a bit and will need at least 1-2 years in scotland to get back to his best. that puts him in the 27 age bracket. Then he hopefully makes a step up which could end up with a transition period. After a yearish of transition, he could be playing a good level (like celtic) at 28. 

Which brings me to this. Had this layoff not happened I think he could have been primmed for a move to Celtic or Rangers. Just like Porto scooped up some local talent in Staq, one of those two giants could have done the same with Paton. Like Staq, he was one of the better players on a mediocre club that was overachieving. 

For sure it will take him time, but how much? That's the big question here. If it plays out like you describe and it takes him a year or two just to get re-acclimatized to the SPL with Ross County or another similar team, I am not even sure he'd move to a Celtic at age 28 unless he is absolutely killing it in Scotland. I mean, it could happen I suppose, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it. 

My hope is that he just finds a decent level, be it SPL or League One perhaps, maybe even Scandanavia. Then, wherever he lands he needs to have a good season, obviously. The quicker the better. Maybe this is too hopeful, but maybe he could even join a team this window? I doubt that happens unless he takes a step down, but maybe going to a strong Scottish Championship club on a short deal would be the right call vs. waiting until next fall. It will be a hard call for him to make I guess, but at least he never had a physical injury or illness to contend with. It's just a matter of getting fit and sharp. It doesn't take long, and for all we know he's been keeping up with his fitness as best he can. He may not be starting from scratch like we imagine. 

Good chat by the way, thanks for engaging with me on it. Paton is certainly an interesting case. There was a decent about of excitement about him heading into last Gold Cup. If I recall correctly, some of us were even suggesting the Gold Cup call was overdue given his play in Scotland. 

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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On 5/28/2021 at 7:16 AM, jordan said:

 

@Bigandy check this out to see the type of player he is. Just a few minutes will show you he takes up more offensive positions than a Priso or Loturi (and I guess Zouhir). One thing I forgot about until I turned this on was how he floats across the field, taking up wide areas sometimes. Has a tiny bit of dribble but is more of a pass-and-move midfielder, obviously has good vision and seems relatively clean in possession.

Again, it's the SPL, it's Ross County, and this is 3 years ago, but I feel this was too good of a player to just shrug our shoulders and forget about simply due to an 8-month hiatus where there was no major injury. If he's replicating these highlights in the SPL in the fall, I think at minimum he needs to be in the conversation for a friendly camp, just to see how he gets on (if we even have one, but that's another story).

Edit - 2 years ago? Says 2020 season, but maybe this is the 2020-21 season, so maybe a lot of those highlights are from early 2021.

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VinceA Grand Master

VinceA

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One thing against Harry right now is we have no idea what kind of training he's been doing, and even so just training on your own won't keep you at the levels you were. I could see him going to a Scottish Championship team. If he joins another top-division Scottish team that alone would be a minor miracle.

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Bigandy Grand Master

Bigandy

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3 hours ago, Obinna said:

@Bigandy check this out to see the type of player he is. Just a few minutes will show you he takes up more offensive positions than a Priso or Loturi (and I guess Zouhir). One thing I forgot about until I turned this on was how he floats across the field, taking up wide areas sometimes. Has a tiny bit of dribble but is more of a pass-and-move midfielder, obviously has good vision and seems relatively clean in possession.

Again, it's the SPL, it's Ross County, and this is 3 years ago, but I feel this was too good of a player to just shrug our shoulders and forget about simply due to an 8-month hiatus where there was no major injury. If he's replicating these highlights in the SPL in the fall, I think at minimum he needs to be in the conversation for a friendly camp, just to see how he gets on (if we even have one, but that's another story).

Edit - 2 years ago? Says 2020 season, but maybe this is the 2020-21 season, so maybe a lot of those highlights are from early 2021.

Love the video! It reaffirms what youre saying about his silkyness.  Im a sucker for a proper #8 who excels at transitioning from defence to offence as the link. He is a bit like a poor mans staq, but staq tends to get into space, receive the ball and then find players. Paton seems to get the ball, dribble into space and then make the pass.  I was a bit surprised to see how many yards he progresses the ball.

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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Hopefully they bring him back. Seemed like he tailed off toward the end, but still got some good minutes for Motherwell. I was kind of surprised he was left off the NL roster, but it was probably too soon and Herdman probably needs to see a full season from him in the SPL before bringing him in, perhaps. 

If he could re-sign and be a regular (either starting or first off the bench kind of guy) and Motherwell has a good season, I think that would warrent a national team call, at least for a friendly (that we won't have of course).

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