General Discussion on Canadian Youth Teams

[A_Gagne]

18 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Because the decision ultimately came down to the Ontario Soccer Association, who are allowed to govern the youth game in Ontario as they see fit. Up until now, they’ve been hesitant to secede control over their crown jewel academy to the Americans, for financial and other reasons. But with the 2026 bid accepted, the CSA pushed hard to get everybody in line to put us in the best position possible to develop players over the next eight years.

Are you saying that the CSA pushed the OSA to accept TFC academy teams playing in the USSDA and would prefer them playing there, than in L1O? ok...

That may or may not be true, from what I can tell I wouldn't say Impact or VWFC (who have been playing in the USSDA for a while now) have any any greater success as compared to tFC producing youth talent for their first team.

[harrycoyster]

At the end of the group stages:

Montreal u17s- Advance to the quarterfinals.

Montreal u19s- Eliminated. 

Vancouver u17s- Eliminated. 

Vancouver u19s- Advance to the quarterfinals.

Toronto u17s-  Eliminated.

All in all, good showing from our boys so far. This is Montreal's first appearance in a DA knockout round. 

 

[Dub Narcotic]

@harrycoysterI remember an Impact academy team hosted a home playoff game in USSDA so I don't think you are right about that.

[Guest Tg11]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:40 AM, harrycoyster said:

Because the decision ultimately came down to the Ontario Soccer Association, who are allowed to govern the youth game in Ontario as they see fit. Up until now, they’ve been hesitant to secede control over their crown jewel academy to the Americans, for financial and other reasons. But with the 2026 bid accepted, the CSA pushed hard to get everybody in line to put us in the best position possible to develop players over the next eight years.

 

Proper approach to take as far as team building for 2026 anyway so I can actually support that.

[harrycoyster]

Despite spending much of the match on the backfoot, a deflected Theo Bair shot pulls the Caps u19s over Sockers. The Whitecaps join NYCFC and the winners of LA/Philly, RSL/Crew at the u19 finals at the new American National Training Center in Kansas City in two weeks.

[Guest Tg11]

36 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Despite spending much of the match on the backfoot, a deflected Theo Bair shot pulls the Caps u19s over Sockers. The Whitecaps join NYCFC and the winners of LA/Philly, RSL/Crew at the u19 finals at the new American National Training Center in Kansas City in two weeks.

Starting to really like this kid Theo Bair

[Vince193]

Rob Gale will be Valour FC's first head coach. Canada will need a new coach at the U20 level. Personally like the guy, but results wise he's been very bad at this level with no WC appearances and some head scratching decisions during tournaments. Long overdue for him to leave the post.

[matty]

11 hours ago, Vince193 said:

Rob Gale will be Valour FC's first head coach. Canada will need a new coach at the U20 level. Personally like the guy, but results wise he's been very bad at this level with no WC appearances and some head scratching decisions during tournaments. Long overdue for him to leave the post.

I agree his time as the coach wasn't the best but still feel he's a good hire for Valour. I imagine Stalteri is gonna step into the U20 unless Herdman wants Biello looking over both U20 and U23.

[Ivan]

Impact U17s beat Sacramento Republic 1-0 and advance to the semis.  Calaidjoglu with the goal.  Anybody watch?

[harrycoyster]

The Impact u17s fail to advance to the DA Final after a loss to Atlanta United in a hard fought 3-2 game. Pacius and Calaidjoglu score, but ultimately the Montreal defense couldn't hold back the constant Atlanta pressure. Sirios had a fantastic game in goal. He made ten or so saves and was only beaten on a penalty, own goal and failed clearance turned point blank shot. 

[harrycoyster]

The Impact loss means the Whitecaps u19s are the only Canadian team left in the DA Playoffs. They will face the LA Galaxy u19s in a few hours. The LA Galaxy u19s are very highly regarded, lead primarily by Alex Mendez, Uly Llanez and Efrain Alvarez a trio of Mexican-Americans who are lighting the USL aflame. There is a swarm of Mexican scouts in Kansas City, but a heavy Arsenal contingent, including chief scout Sven Mislintat (whom oversaw Christian Pulisic's transfer to Borussia Dortmund) and North American scout Danny Karbassiyoon will also be in attendance.

The opportunity is there for our boys to get noticed.

[masster]

Newspaper article on the Whitecaps U19 semifinal matchup against LA Galaxy. See if you can find all of the errors:
https://theprovince.com/sports/soccer/mls/vancouver-whitecaps/usda-semifinal-a-chance-for-whitecaps-u-19s-to-change-history-future?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1531051851

[harrycoyster]

The Whitecaps forced extra time against the LA Galaxy, but ultimately couldn't hold on for penalties as the Galaxy scored twice to win the game 2-0. The gap in technical quality was obvious and the Caps looked hopeless in their attempts to get the ball to Bair for much of the game, yet a stellar performance by the Caps backline is something to be excited about. Ruby and Hakkinen were damn near faultless in 120' against the most talented attacking side the DA has ever seen.

All things considered, good if not great showings for both the Vancouver and Montreal academies.

[Acid-Tone]

It certainly seems like GK Thomas Hasal should get a mention as well.  I seen a few highlight worthy saves he made to keep the "Caps in the game.   Hopefully he can make the jump up to the senior club for next season.  

[harrycoyster]

As usual, the USSDA playoffs are sending a bunch of kids over to Europe. Americans Will Vint (Man United), Chris Richards (Bayern Munich), Richie Ledezma (PSV), Akil Watts (Mallorca), and Alec Kenison (Middlesbrough) have all moved to Europe after playing in the playoffs this past month. More moves will happen after the finals, as scouts are asked not to extend offers until after the player's team has been eliminated.

You'll notice that there is a complete lack of Canadians on that list. I asked a Whitecaps youth staff member if there has been any interest in Caps players from European sides and they responded, "There are always conversations, but you get the feeling that the clubs that come to this event aren't interested in paying for talent." 

Of the ten or so players that have been pulled from USSDA clubs to European and Mexican teams in the last two weeks, only Chris Richards (FC Dallas to Bayern Munich) will require any sort of training compensation. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by harrycoyster

[Blackdude]

58 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

 

Of the ten or so players that have been pulled from USSDA clubs to European and Mexican teams in the last two weeks, only Chris Richards (FC Dallas to Bayern Munich) will require any sort of training compensation. 

Is it because the players you named above are all playing at non-MLS clubs?

[harrycoyster]

33 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Is it because the players you named above are all playing at non-MLS clubs?

 Nope. Two more are from MLS academies. FC Dallas just happens to have a deal in place with Bayern Munich that allows Bayern to pick out players from the Dallas academy in exchange for a yearly stipend and money triggers related to player performance.

[harrycoyster]

On 7/9/2018 at 7:58 PM, harrycoyster said:

As usual, the USSDA playoffs are sending a bunch of kids over to Europe. Americans Will Vint (Man United), Chris Richards (Bayern Munich), Richie Ledezma (PSV), Akil Watts (Mallorca), and Alec Kenison (Middlesbrough) have all moved to Europe after playing in the playoffs this past month.

You can add Sebastian Soto (Borussia Monchengladbach) and Alex Mendez (Freiburg) to this list. Doesn’t sound like any Canadians are in talks with European clubs.

Would be interested in everybody’s thoughts on the issue of youth compensation. While I think it’s more than fair that Canadian teams demand compensation for players they develop, we have and are continuing to see, European teams raid American youth talent since they’re literally free. The USMNT senior team has already capped u20 players from Dortmund, Schalke, Werder Bremen and PSG...all of whom were playing in the USSDA and required no compensation of any kind. As a result, major American tournaments are now swarming with European scouts, and their players are getting better and better opportunities.

The question is, is that model sustainable?  Can these clubs continue to lose top prospects and warrant dumping money into their academies? Should Canadian teams allow players to move to teams of a certain calibre on a free for the sake of the national team, or is that a short-sighted solution that does more harm than good long term?

[Scorpion26]

59 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

The question is, is that model sustainable?  Can these clubs continue to lose top prospects and warrant dumping money into their academies? Should Canadian teams allow players to move to teams of a certain calibre on a free for the sake of the national team, or is that a short-sighted solution that does more harm than good long term?

Well if MLS are selling their players yes that's good way to invest further into youth academies. If it is a youth club outside MLS well that one I don't know if they get compensated or I think they do actually maybe a small fee for that youth player. Anyways let us hope CPL can do this for our youth as MLS as done for US youth. As I think CPL will be financially viable much more with selling players and not being hard bargainers as MLS have been known to be. I think if young players is ready to move and will obviously get plenty of PT sell them. CPL should sellers mainly, but that will take some years.

[harrycoyster]

5 minutes ago, Scorpion26 said:

Well if MLS are selling their players yes that's good way to invest further into youth academies. If it is a youth club outside MLS well that one I don't know if they get compensated or I think they do actually maybe a small fee for that youth player. Anyways let us hope CPL can do this for our youth as MLS as done for US youth. As I think CPL will be financially viable much more with selling players and not being hard bargainers as MLS have been known to be. I think if young players is ready to move and will obviously get plenty of PT sell them. CPL should sellers mainly, but that will take some years.

That's the opposite of what they are doing. American MLS academies are losing their top talents to Europe for zero compensation. The USSF doesn't let American clubs sell or receive future compensation for non-professional players, so every American academy player is basically a free agent to European teams. If an MLS team can't convince a kid to sign a contract, they are allowed to walk...and they do. In the last few months RSL has lost their three best youth players to PSV, Borussia Monchengladbach, and Bayern Munich. From an RSL perspective that looks like a complete waste of resources, but they continue to pump record amounts of money into their development system. Obviously, from a USMNT perspective that's basically best case scenario....that's three teenagers training at premier European clubs. So I can't help but wonder if the CSA can do something to take advantage of the attention the USSDA gets from international scouts...Canadian teenagers have similar talent, but don't get the same offers from European teams because they are (relatively) expensive. 

[Scorpion26]

35 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

That's the opposite of what they are doing. American MLS academies are losing their top talents to Europe for zero compensation. The USSF doesn't let American clubs sell or receive future compensation for non-professional players, so every American academy player is basically a free agent to European teams. If an MLS team can't convince a kid to sign a contract, they are allowed to walk...and they do. In the last few months RSL has lost their three best youth players to PSV, Borussia Monchengladbach, and Bayern Munich. From an RSL perspective that looks like a complete waste of resources, but they continue to pump record amounts of money into their development system. Obviously, from a USMNT perspective that's basically best case scenario....that's three teenagers training at premier European clubs. So I can't help but wonder if the CSA can do something to take advantage of the attention the USSDA gets from international scouts...Canadian teenagers have similar talent, but don't get the same offers from European teams because they are (relatively) expensive. 

It's not every youth players that does this and those they do sell add to the finance for youth academies. Obviously many youth players leave without MLS getting compensated for it and I think it is due to MLS being difficult at transferring their youth either for increase sell money or just plain don't want to lose the youth player. Think for example Altidore, he joined NYRB years back and was sold for 10mil. MLS could probably make a lot more money honestly, if they just realize they're a seller type league. 

 

CSA & CPL will make those moves, but it will take time. What will be good are Canadian college players will be part of the CPL movement come 2019 and beyond. Well until CPL clubs pump out top notch talents which I believe many would probably leave on free to join top Euro clubs. CPL I do hope won't make it hard for youth players to leave like MLS has done in the past and sort of continue to do.

 

[harrycoyster]

1 minute ago, Scorpion26 said:

It's not every youth players that does this and those they do sell add to the finance for youth academies. Obviously many youth players leave without MLS getting compensated for it and I think it is due to MLS being difficult at transferring their youth either for increase sell money or just plain don't want to lose the youth player. Think for example Altidore, he joined NYRB years back and was sold for 10mil. MLS could probably make a lot more money honestly, if they just realize they're a seller type league. 

 

CSA & CPL will make those moves, but it will take time. What will be good are Canadian college players will be part of the CPL movement come 2019 and beyond. Well until CPL clubs pump out top notch talents which I believe many would probably leave on free to join top Euro clubs. CPL I do hope won't make it hard for youth players to leave like MLS has done in the past and sort of continue to do.

 

MLS has and will continue to sell players to Europe, hell Tyler Adams is in the process of going to RB Leipzig right now, that isn't what I'm talking about. My point is: The US is building an army of young players in Germany and Holland by making the American market one of the most attractive places in the world to scout uncontracted talent. The players are free, scouts are invited to showcases (scouting in most of the world is significantly harder), and the marketing potential of developing an American star is enormous. While I completely understand and support teams getting kickbacks for the players they have partially developed, I can't help but feel we are missing an opportunity to send more kids to Europe earlier. 

[Guest Tg11]

Furthermore, that is why Canada is not and will not be on the USA and or Mexico's level any time soon as far as scouting or development. Canada for its most part has the talent and the resources to be doing all of that and it isn't like we don't. However the USA and or Mexico have more money and resources behind them.

[Ivan]

I think we should stand firm and not let players our clubs have developed get away for nothing.  Money invested in academies should be recoverable.  This will be very important for the CPL.

[Keegan]

I think some are missing the point here.  

American youth clubs = zero compensation 

Canadian youth clubs = compensation 

When American players get to mls and sold that is how these teams make money.  Unfortunately a lot of players who have excelled in mls have flunked in Europe so while we thought altidore at 10m was the start of sales and bringing in money it wasn’t.. mls wants big money for players it holds hostage and European clubs aren’t willing to overpay.  

Ultimately mls will have to align itself with soccernomics if it ever wants to be a truly top league but will that ever happen?  It’s hard to imagine.