General Discussion on Canadian Youth Teams

[phresh]

6 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

Your right, MLS teams play in MLSNEXTPRO, a level lower than USL, my mistake. Would Anchor have made a difference over Alexander? Was goalkeeping our problem? NZ on paper are pretty bad, but so was Cuba and Guatemala and what did we do against them? As for picking Uzbekistan as a team we "we should be better than" given their success at the u20 level including winning the Asian championship, that's hard a one to understand.

 

Did you even read the post, guy? You said the inclusion of Anchor over Alexander was the hardest to understand. I replied saying the respective levels they play at wouldn’t make it that hard to understand. Never said there was an issue with Alexander. Would you be able to give me some insight on the Uzbekistan team, given you’re the expert and all? I have an extremely hard time believing they’d be better than us from a pure talent perspective, maybe you could name same players that would be selected to play for Canada if they were eligible

[InglewoodJack]

Uzbekistan’s roster entirely plays in Uzbekistan save for two players that play in Russia and Belarus. Not that out U20 team was particularly good, but by the same logic that they’d beat us because they performed well in Asia, our senior team would smoke Italy’s because we cruised through concacaf WC qualifying and they did not. 

[Soccerpro2]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Uzbekistan’s roster entirely plays in Uzbekistan save for two players that play in Russia and Belarus. Not that out U20 team was particularly good, but by the same logic that they’d beat us because they performed well in Asia, our senior team would smoke Italy’s because we cruised through concacaf WC qualifying and they did not. 

They've had some recent success at the u20 world cup and won their confederation. The same confederation that performed better than ours at the wu20 world cup.

Why you're trying to equate that with our senior team being better than a good team in Uefa, the top confederation, is pretty hard to understand. But hey, have at it.

[VinceA]

Uzekistan is an interesting case study because while they aren't as good as they used to be, that entire federation has been underachieving for like 20 years.

[InglewoodJack]

4 hours ago, Soccerpro2 said:

They've had some recent success at the u20 world cup and won their confederation. The same confederation that performed better than ours at the wu20 world cup.

Why you're trying to equate that with our senior team being better than a good team in Uefa, the top confederation, is pretty hard to understand. But hey, have at it.

The point is that looking at what a team has done in a completely different confederation against completely different teams has no bearings on what a completely different team playing under different circumstances does. 
 

For example, the roster you criticized before, while objectively not good, has players playing for TFC. Do any Uzbek U20s play for teams at that level? Will any of them even reach that level? 

[jordan]

3 hours ago, VinceA said:

Uzekistan is an interesting case study because while they aren't as good as they used to be, that entire federation has been underachieving for like 20 years.

I want Ottawa to snag Fayzullaev from Pakhtakor, but he’s not an aging out Atleti youth/reserve player

[canuckgbp]

 

[Dominic94]

7 hours ago, canuckgbp said:

 

I read about this a week ago, and I actually commend Devos. This is a really smart way to get funding in from “sponsors” that the CSB won’t ever touch. 
 

It is very smart that this will find our new youth programs. This is a great step in the right direction, execution is key but even 1-2 big sponsors can get this fund going and I’m sure there will be more. The senior team is still fucked until we get a new kit sponsor and amended deal with CSB… but this is very good. It wont take many sponsors now to get a proper youth team going.

[red card]

Sponsors will need payback to pay out big monies. Typically, giving to foundations provides minimal exposure. Backing national youth teams provides minimal exposure. Otherwise, it will be more in line with the 100k GE provided to women's team.

More likely to get it from individuals like Kerfoot who has done it for the past 20 years. 

Benchmark is likely the $1.4m/yr Hockey Canada's foundation averaged from 2016-21. Keeping in mind, they have the avenue to raise quite a bit of money via 50/50 draws at the World Juniors every other year Canada was hosting. Basketball Canada, which is closer to Canada Soccer, only raised 113k in 2021. 

USSF Foundation raised $1.7 million (pro-rated with no currency conversion) in 2021. Amongst their non-individual contributors, only notable corporate donors were adidas (USSF is sponsored by Nike) and Kwik Goal. Most prevalent were MLS related (3 clubs and 3 MLS HQ related) and then family foundations/small businesses.

 

[red card]

Forget about losing duals, we're losing players to Fortnite. 

From Maclean's about parents losing kids to gaming:

Cody was seven years old when he decided what he wanted to do with his life. It was the summer of 2018, and he was watching the World Cup with his parents and younger brother at home on Vancouver Island. When he grew up, he told them, he wanted to play pro soccer.

He was the best player on his local team, and he soon began training with the Vancouver Whitecaps’ youth academy.

Then the pandemic hit. Soccer ceased. To combat his boredom, he played Xbox. One of his favourite video games was Fortnite. During COVID, video games were one of the few ways her son could connect with his friends. They’d call the house, asking if Cody could come online to play. 

Cody’s gaming obsession ruined Christmas, then New Year’s. He fell behind on schoolwork and looked dazed on the soccer field. He tried out for a rep team but didn’t make the cut. Fine, he decided. He didn’t want to be a soccer player anymore anyway. He wanted to be a pro gamer, streaming on Twitch and uploading videos to YouTube

https://macleans.ca/longforms/fortnite-addiction-video-games-mental-health/?src=longreads&utm_medium=email&mc_cid=6582426748

[VinceA]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsel_Bibishkov per @InglewoodJack he's already played pro in the Bulgaria top flight. Would be cool if we was approached about the U17 WC.

 

But it is the CSA we're talking about and he's already in Bulgaria camps.

[red card]

In their most recent NextPod, Rollins and Grossi had an interview with Mike Vitulano who is men's Regional Excel Director and u17 assistant coach. He was also the head coach of the recent u15 team that played in the Concacaf tourney.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-vitulano-75b13924/?originalSubdomain=ca

The interview should have 2x longer but they did discuss a few things that are tossed around here often. Starts around 13:25.

 

Mike came through Soccer Quebec. First opportunity with Canada Soccer was via Sean Fleming 8 years ago. Has known Andrew Olivieri for 20 years.

A year ago, they started Rex intergration camps. It's done once per year in the various regions. For example, about twenty-five 2008 birth year players from the 4 Atlantic provinces + staff were given a short version of a regional excel activity camp last spring in Nova Scotia. Mike said he's still getting emails from players who say they can now see Canada's tactical ID come to the life when they watch the national team. On the wider 55 squad of u15 players, 11 came through Rex intergration camps (non-MLS academies).

Focusing on MLS academies was Herdman's vision of getting players ready for pro and national team intergration back in 2018.

More and more, they do get leads on potential players from linkedin messages and tweets from accounts who do great work covering the players abroad. 

Selecting a player through video without having a chance to work with him is challenging. The added certainty is the advantage for the MLS academey players as he knows their character and how they fit in Canada's tactical ID. 

Only 3.5 training sessions for u15 players before Concacaf tourney. But ahead of this, he had a few webinars for players who had no exposure to Canada's tactical ID. Videos were also created to become familiar with set plays.

Over reliance on MLS academies? Mike said question that has to be asked is what are the environments where players will continually progress. Which players are getting 200+ annual training contacts and 5 training days to 1 match ratio consistently throughout the year. Are the players getting a 4 corner approach from practioners in mental, physical, social and tactics. In Canada, there aren't too many beyond the MLS academies that are doing this.

Are they involved in a formal competition structure. 20-30 friendlies per year doesn't expose the players to scutiny and consequences of losing/draws or the difficulty of making the starting 11. 

What is the pathway to the first team. You are maybe an exceptional player at a community club but Mike needs to project if you'll survive against better competition and under more scrutiny. Can you cope once you're in the national team. Academies are also fully funded and invested in the player's success/pathway which isn't the case for most of the pay-to-play operations. 

u17 World Cup squad will be significantly different than seen in Concacaf qualifying. Players have evolved since then. 

Futsal keeps kids engaged and more comfortable with the ball since they'll have 500 reps vs 50 even in small-sided games. 

 

 

[narduch]

No Canadians made the Next Pro team of the year. 

[nolando]

Burnaby FC (which came out of the remains of top youth HPL club Mountain FC) have just won the U-17 Nationals for boys and girls. These are 2006 born players, I believe.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyL2bnmO3cM/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Edited October 10, 2023 by nolando

[phresh]

We have been historically terrible at every youth level, recently bombed out of the 2022 U20 Concacaf Champ and got humiliated at the last two U17 World Cups. At the same time, we are seeing an increase in young Canadian talent domestically and abroad; Kone, Saliba, JRR, Franklin, Nelson, Corbeanu, Ahmed, Bombito, etc. Are there better U17 players elsewhere in the country? Why are L1C academies consistently ignored when they have produced a number of elite talents in the last decade? Other than possibly player selection and coaching, what will it take to improve results?

[Dominic94]

2 hours ago, phresh said:

We have been historically terrible at every youth level, recently bombed out of the 2022 U20 Concacaf Champ and got humiliated at the last two U17 World Cups. At the same time, we are seeing an increase in young Canadian talent domestically and abroad; Kone, Saliba, JRR, Franklin, Nelson, Corbeanu, Ahmed, Bombito, etc. Are there better U17 players elsewhere in the country? Why are L1C academies consistently ignored when they have produced a number of elite talents in the last decade? Other than possibly player selection and coaching, what will it take to improve results?

A revamp of the youth program