What should our gold cup lineup be?

[DannyFromToronto23]

I would put

Arfield. Bernier Piette in the midfield 

and throw in Teibert for the second half 

[El Diego]

21 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

Tiebert is tidier, and better defensively, and has an incredible workrate.

Osorio is more creative but disappears too often.

They bring different things to the pitch. 

 

I don't buy this analysis of Osorio anymore. He has turned into an incredible presser, he's very good defensively. He's not really a "creative mid" but a mid who has creativity. To me, there is nothing Teibert brings over Osorio.

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, El Diego said:

I don't buy this analysis of Osorio anymore. He has turned into an incredible presser, he's very good defensively. He's not really a "creative mid" but a mid who has creativity. To me, there is nothing Teibert brings over Osorio.

You can't say that Osorio is better than Tiebert defensively?!

[El Diego]

4 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

You can't say that Osorio is better than Tiebert defensively?!

I do think Osorio is better defensively. If I was closing out a game I'd rather sub him in over Teibert.

I think Osorio was pigeon holed as a creative attacking midfielder because when he came to TFC he was the only exciting thing about the club and scored a few nice goals. However if you watch TFC regularly his strengths are apparent. It's not his final pass or his finishing ability or his 1v1 skills, it's that he is able to keep possession, presses very intelligently, and is very aware positionally.

Teibert is sort of the opposite in the sense that I believe he is more offensive than people think. Teibert tries hard and runs around a lot, that doesn't make him good defensively. It's the most salient part of his game and people equate 'runs hard' with 'defensively responsible'. He is often loose in possession and out of position. However, he is braver than Osorio in possession and more willing to get into dangerous areas.

Honestly, if you swapped their names then I think people would have different opinions on them.

All that being said I don't think either should start.

[Bison44]

Didnt we play Arfield in the middle his last time out??  I say stick him with Piette.  Davies and Hoilet on the wings, Cavallini, AJH up top, let the new blood carry us to some positive results.  Rickets,Oso,Tiebert etc subs as needed per situation.  I know Bernier is favored by Ozzie but he just looked gassed against Curaco, and its time to move on to the next generation.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

8 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I do think Osorio is better defensively. If I was closing out a game I'd rather sub him in over Teibert.

I think Osorio was pigeon holed as a creative attacking midfielder because when he came to TFC he was the only exciting thing about the club and scored a few nice goals. However if you watch TFC regularly his strengths are apparent. It's not his final pass or his finishing ability or his 1v1 skills, it's that he is able to keep possession, presses very intelligently, and is very aware positionally.

Teibert is sort of the opposite in the sense that I believe he is more offensive than people think. Teibert tries hard and runs around a lot, that doesn't make him good defensively. It's the most salient part of his game and people equate 'runs hard' with 'defensively responsible'. He is often loose in possession and out of position. However, he is braver than Osorio in possession and more willing to get into dangerous areas.

Honestly, if you swapped their names then I think people would have different opinions on them.

All that being said I don't think either should start.

Obviously you don't watch Teibert play very often. The number of times Teibert wins the ball back is actually very impressive. Teibert isn't great as a starter because he works so hard and he can't keep that up all game. He is amazing at closing out games though. His work rate overpowers the other team in the midfield late in a game. There is no way that Osorio is better for closing out games. He is better defensively for a full 90min, but not as a late game sub. Osorio doesn't win the ball back nearly as much as Teibert and he gives it away just as often. 

[Northvansteve]

1 hour ago, El Diego said:

Teibert is sort of the opposite in the sense that I believe he is more offensive than people think. Teibert tries hard and runs around a lot, that doesn't make him good defensively. It's the most salient part of his game and people equate 'runs hard' with 'defensively responsible'. He is often loose in possession and out of position. However, he is braver than Osorio in possession and more willing to get into dangerous areas.

 

Actually I think El Diego is correct here. Teibert was originally a strong offensive player with outstanding distribution - one of the best passers I've seen. A series of Whitecaps managers have tried to turn him into something he's not: a fullback, a winger and now a defensive mid. He's done adequately as a defensive mid because he's smart and makes a safe pass, but his potential as an attacking mid has been wasted. A real shame.

[Vince193]

 To lighten to the mood.

[Yoginess]

16 hours ago, El Diego said:

I don't buy this analysis of Osorio anymore. He has turned into an incredible presser, he's very good defensively. He's not really a "creative mid" but a mid who has creativity. To me, there is nothing Teibert brings over Osorio.

Teibert is really good at closing players down. He's a great guy to have on the pitch if you're trying to stay tight defensively and want to protect a lead late.

I'd take Osorio over Russ though if I had to pick one to be in a starting 11 position.

[shermanator]

Oh Davies, so nieve!

[Yoginess]

9 hours ago, Northvansteve said:

Actually I think El Diego is correct here. Teibert was originally a strong offensive player with outstanding distribution - one of the best passers I've seen. A series of Whitecaps managers have tried to turn him into something he's not: a fullback, a winger and now a defensive mid. He's done adequately as a defensive mid because he's smart and makes a safe pass, but his potential as an attacking mid has been wasted. A real shame.

Also to this point, I don't know if I completely agree. Teibert has never been that great of a passer to me (and this is dating back to Game 1 in 2011 against TFC). He's been put into different positions that match his ability. Russell doesn't possess any 1on1 skills or the flat out pace to be a true winger. In the middle of the park he has yet to develop a creative instinct. But his work rate is good and he can close down players well, hence DM role.

I honestly think the best think for Teibert would be to be playing (captaining WFC2) but I feel he's been in the MLS too long that both him and the club feel it would be inappropriate to send him down at this stage.

[Yoginess]

24 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Oh Davies, so nieve!

Davies got clattered into last Saturday and I honestly think it should have warranted a red, both players were down injured. Davies got up and tried to help the defender up (but he was probably a d*ck American or smthn)

[matty]

Prediction Oso gets subbed into 2 games in the group stage while Russ gets subbed into 1. Davies and AJH gets subbed into all 3.

[C2SKI]

Why does everyone assume Arfield will be playing out of position, in the middle? He was dreadful for Burnley the few times they tried him there. I know Floro used him as a CM, but he's a far better winger.

[PopePouri]

11 hours ago, Northvansteve said:

Actually I think El Diego is correct here. Teibert was originally a strong offensive player with outstanding distribution - one of the best passers I've seen. A series of Whitecaps managers have tried to turn him into something he's not: a fullback, a winger and now a defensive mid. He's done adequately as a defensive mid because he's smart and makes a safe pass, but his potential as an attacking mid has been wasted. A real shame.

Strong offensive player in terms of passing and crossing, sure. But these days midfielders need an end product which also means goals and Teibert is worse than Oso in front of goal.

[The Beaver]

5 hours ago, Yoginess said:

Also to this point, I don't know if I completely agree. Teibert has never been that great of a passer to me (and this is dating back to Game 1 in 2011 against TFC). He's been put into different positions that match his ability. Russell doesn't possess any 1on1 skills or the flat out pace to be a true winger. In the middle of the park he has yet to develop a creative instinct. But his work rate is good and he can close down players well, hence DM role.

I honestly think the best think for Teibert would be to be playing (captaining WFC2) but I feel he's been in the MLS too long that both him and the club feel it would be inappropriate to send him down at this stage.

Disagree on the passing bit: He is damned tidy. But I totally agree on all the other bits. He is playing at DM for a reason.

As for where he goes next, I think he has enough value to find a role in MLS somewhere, maybe with the Caps for a long time. If he had killer pace--or at least as much pace as Techera--then he'd be a very useful and responsible winger. (Techera, by the way, isn't especially fast. But his dribbling skills are superior to Rusty's, and he is more audacious and creative.

[BearcatSA]

Both Osorio and Teibert are the same in that they have both hit a ceiling at this point in their careers with their original clubs.  They are getting into the danger zone of being role players  vulnerable to replacement by younger and cheaper options in a salary cap world.

[Complete Homer]

32 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Both Osorio and Teibert are the same in that they have both hit a ceiling at this point in their careers with their original clubs.  They are getting into the danger zone of being role players  vulnerable to replacement by younger and cheaper options in a salary cap world.

The Vocal Minority group said a while back that they've been told that TFC is considering not resigning Osorio for those reasons 

[harrycoyster]

51 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

The Vocal Minority group said a while back that they've been told that TFC is considering not resigning Osorio for those reasons 

It makes sense for everybody involved at this point, barring a great second half of the season from him. Osorio has regressed this year, TFC needs the cap room, and there are a number of TFC academy players that could use the look at first team minutes. 

Send Osorio to a team where he will get starting minutes, send Endoh to TFCII, and sign Hundal and Akinola to pro deals. 

[Complete Homer]

Just now, harrycoyster said:

It makes sense for everybody involved at this point, barring a great second half of the season from him. Osorio has regressed this year, TFC needs the cap room, and there are a number of TFC academy players that could use the look at first team minutes. 

Send Osorio to a team where he will get starting minutes, send Endoh to TFCII, and sign Hundal and Akinola to pro deals. 

The interesting bit was that they said Hamilton was interested in making him a key signing. Not completely sure how realistic that is, but they aren't exactly a rumour mill

Hard to say what he'd fetch in MLS without TFC. I don't think he's a fit for Vancouver or Montreal, but I don't think American teams would take him as an international unless it was a deep discount

[Yoginess]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Both Osorio and Teibert are the same in that they have both hit a ceiling at this point in their careers with their original clubs.  They are getting into the danger zone of being role players  vulnerable to replacement by younger and cheaper options in a salary cap world.

Both I feel would be perfect to be key players in a CPL. If all academy graduates could hit the level they are playing at then play key roles in a domestic league I think we are in very good shape. 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

3 hours ago, Yoginess said:

Both I feel would be perfect to be key players in a CPL. If all academy graduates could hit the level they are playing at then play key roles in a domestic league I think we are in very good shape. 

I would take Teibert as my CPL team captain any day. I love that guy. May not be the most talented but he works hard!

[Dr.Dre]

Depending of the performance in preparation camp, I think the starting XI would be something like that. 

- Even if Cyle isn't there for the Group stage, we are well equipped to create chance and scrore goal. They just need to focus on finishing opportunities.

- Our midfield depth might be concerning. It is still a good mid, but it is a subpar without Hutchinson and Johnson.

- Our Fullback can give good support for the attack, but are weak defensively. If we want to take points to Honduras and Costa Rica, our central core (CM, DM, CBs and GK) must step up and not collapse 

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=t32c0

[ThiKu]

11 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

I would take Teibert as my CPL team captain any day. I love that guy. May not be the most talented but he works hard!

The CPL will uncover many players if Teibert's ilk, but Teibert should be a flagship signing if they can afford him.

[ThiKu]

Here's what I have for a starting XI. Change to 433 or variation of, as needed - ie, bringing on Edwards, Davies, Bernier, etc etc.

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=t32n1

De Jong starts as he's been playing. For me our best LB in this formation would be Adekugbe. 

433 is a good shout for an XI - and likely what we'll play based on the Curacao match. But, if we can get Cava-Jackson up top together with Aird and De Jong dropping in balls, and Hoilett buzzing off them we might just have something.

this is the 433 I'd play with these available players - Davies as a "superb sub", Ricketts will fatigue the defender, and Davies can finish him off. Hoilett should be central in our team, not stuck out wide having to cut in past the back 4 and a CDM, IMO. He'd also be a more attacking threat than Bernier. Arfield and Piette behind Hoilett and Jackson will put in the work rate, and provide the service forward well enough no doubt.

I see Jackson starting since he's been close to the squad, and he's playing well. Cava will grow in stature over the course of the tournament we all hope, as he's likely our 2nd best striker, possibly our best (Larin being #1). For me, our MF changes if we have Johnson and not Piette in the XI, but that's not an option right now.

Somewhat surprised Cordova didn't make the squad to see what he can do as a RWB. Or is Petrasso a defender now? Since Jackson is apparently a midfielder according to concacaf, lol.

 

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=t32n3