BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, matty said: While i agree good soccer will, i feel having 7 or so Canadians on each roster would add more appeal to the general canadian than 3 or 4 and 7 or so could still provide a decent game. Don't think the CSA would ever sign off on a quota like that because of what happened with MLS where they were left feeling misled: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/13/mls-canada-american-citizens ...Montagliani says that when Canada Soccer signed off on MLS operating clubs within its jurisdiction (a national federation, as well as the regional confederation, and FIFA must approve cross-border participation in leagues) the intention was for many Canadian players to be on the teams. “That never came to fruition,” he says. “MLS still hasn’t dealt with the issue of treating Canadian players equal to American players. The truth is that if there was no protection for the American player like there is I bet there would be less American players in MLS. That protectionist attitude has helped the American player. Good on them but it definitely hasn’t helped the Canadian player. MLS has a duty to clubs in both countries. I think they are sincere but I don’t think they wake up in the morning and the first thing they think about is how they can help the Canadian players.” ... If the CSA don't like the business plan they don't have to approve the sanctioning, which is what appears to have happened in December. Canadian soccer never ceases to amaze me. After John McGrane and Anthony Totera's podcast rants about needing a league where the players, coaches and management are Canadian it never crossed my mind that CPL could come up with something as low as a 3 Canadian player quota (that no doubt could include permanent residents that are not even CMNT-eligible) with no guaranteed playing time, but it shows what can happen when the guys with the money, who will sign all the cheques make decisions on preferred business plans . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Gopherbashi said: I don't understand how the difference between "Canada" and "National" in this context. Also "professional" I guess maybe a league that operates nationally, but has smaller divisions would be USL Pro? I don't know but yeah, division 1 and 2 seem like they can be similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 50 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: The argument is apparently that having more Canadians than that is inevitable, but they don't want to artificially inflate domestic salaries too much I'm not a huge fan of it, but Bierne did mention on here that they were "looking at something they could escalate over time, so if it starts at 3-4 and ends 10+, I'll be ok with it Edit: Not to mention that this is apparently still a point of negotiation. Hopefully we see slightly more than that at launch and a scheduled escalatiom I don't think any kind of quota is necessary. It's quite clear to anyone paying attention that this league will be operating well below USL standards (hence why I've always said that PDL teams will be looking to join), and why Rollins has repeatedly said in his podcasts that the CSA will likely have this new league compete for the Challenge Trophy rather than the Canadian Championship. No quota will be necessary as it's obvious that this development league will consist entirely of unpaid Canadian youth and the odd foreigner who hopes to sneak into MLS by getting signed to TFC II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Canadian soccer never ceases to amaze me. After John McGrane and Anthony Totera's podcast rants about needing a league where the players, coaches and management are Canadian it never crossed my mind that CPL could come up with something as low as a 3 Canadian player quota (that no doubt could include permanent residents that are not even CMNT-eligible) with no guaranteed playing time, but it shows what can happen when the guys with the money, who will sign all the cheques make decisions on preferred business plans . Which is all speculation. None of this has been proven. Why don't you wait until the details of the league are revealed before condemning them especially given your tendency to call people out for their lack of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Here is my pie in the sky scenario on the 3 or 4 domestic player quota that would make it look good to me. 1. Mandatory academies. 2. 3 Canadian player minimum on all D1 team rosters, increasing by 1 (or 2) yearly until some number (10? 15?) is hit. What I mean by that is that the CPL quota would match the Canadian MLS quota, not just at the outset, but going forward as the quota grows. That way CPL teams are on equal footing (with regards to this particular rule at least) every step of the way. The one problem with this solution (in addition to the fact it's dependent on MLS to go along with it) is that if there are any CPL teams in the 3 MLS markets, there isn't much of anything to make a fan prioritize the CPL team over the MLS team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Don't think the CSA would ever sign off on a quota like that because of what happened with MLS where they were left feeling misled: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/13/mls-canada-american-citizens ...Montagliani says that when Canada Soccer signed off on MLS operating clubs within its jurisdiction (a national federation, as well as the regional confederation, and FIFA must approve cross-border participation in leagues) the intention was for many Canadian players to be on the teams. “That never came to fruition,” he says. “MLS still hasn’t dealt with the issue of treating Canadian players equal to American players. The truth is that if there was no protection for the American player like there is I bet there would be less American players in MLS. That protectionist attitude has helped the American player. Good on them but it definitely hasn’t helped the Canadian player. MLS has a duty to clubs in both countries. I think they are sincere but I don’t think they wake up in the morning and the first thing they think about is how they can help the Canadian players.” ... If the CSA don't like the business plan they don't have to approve the sanctioning, which is what happened appears to have happened in December. Canadian soccer never ceases to amaze me. After John McGrane and Anthony Totera's podcast rants about needing a league where the players, coaches and management are Canadian it never crossed my mind that CPL could come up with something as low as a 3 Canadian player quota (that no doubt could include permanent residents that are not even CMNT-eligible) with no guaranteed playing time, but it shows what can happen when the guys with the money, who will sign all the cheques make decisions on preferred business plans . It's still a point of negotiation. Let's see what the end result is before blowing our tops Again, I still don't see why you think they didn't sanction the league in December. What are you expecting, that they are going to trot out to a press conference and say "we have sanctioned a league that we are not prepared to discuss yet in any capacity"? We were never going to hear whether or not it got sanctioned, but given that all things point to the process chugging along, I doubt they didn't approve it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: If the CSA don't like the business plan they don't have to approve the sanctioning, which is what happened appears to have happened in December. Canadian soccer never ceases to amaze me. After John McGrane and Anthony Totera's podcast rants about needing a league where the players, coaches and management are Canadian it never crossed my mind that CPL could come up with something as low as a 3 Canadian player quota (that no doubt could include permanent residents that are not even CMNT-eligible) with no guaranteed playing time, but it shows what can happen when the guys with the money, who will sign all the cheques make decisions on preferred business plans. That is why I think it needs to be entrenched into the foundational documents of the league. It can't be based on a verbal agreement or some vague notion of commitment - it should be a constitutional, stepwise commitment that ensures steady incremental growth. Personally, it is easy to see why the CSA would sign off on that sort of arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: I don't think any kind of quota is necessary. It's quite clear to anyone paying attention that this league will be operating well below USL standards (hence why I've always said that PDL teams will be looking to join), and why Rollins has repeatedly said in his podcasts that the CSA will likely have this new league compete for the Challenge Trophy rather than the Canadian Championship. No quota will be necessary as it's obvious that this development league will consist entirely of unpaid Canadian youth and the odd foreigner who hopes to sneak into MLS by getting signed to TFC II. I had to keep checking the username on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: I don't understand how the difference between "Canada" and "National" in this context. Also "professional" Yep, completely open for interpretation eh? You've seen the USSF documents, right? Anyways, if it helps a little bit whatsoever for the wiki page or to a greater understanding of the system, hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, Complete Homer said: I had to keep checking the username on this one Burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Macksam said: I guess maybe a league that operates nationally, but has smaller divisions would be USL Pro? I don't know but yeah, division 1 and 2 seem like they can be similar. I think since the document was from 2008 that puts it before FC Edmonton's existence in the cross border NASL, and it was when the CSA was looking into a possible D2 league (remember the Easton Report was about the viability of a D2 league in Canada). So the distinction between D1 and D2 is that D1 can be cross border, but they wanted a Canadian only league at the D2 level back in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, Complete Homer said: It's still a point of negotiation. Let's see what the end result is before blowing our tops Again, I still don't see why you think they didn't sanction the league in December. What are you expecting, that they are going to trot out to a press conference and say "we have sanctioned a league that we are not prepared to discuss yet in any capacity"? We were never going to hear whether or not it got sanctioned, but given that all things point to the process chugging along, I doubt they didn't approve it The CSA was unable to sanction the league because Montagliani had his fingers in his ears when they told him its name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: That is why I think it needs to be entrenched into the foundational documents of the league. It can't be based on a verbal agreement or some vague notion of commitment .... Definitely, because once you have sanctioned a league and handed over the keys business legislation protects it and limits the influence that the national association has over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Oakey Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just reading more about Ralph Kreuger and I really hope they reach out to him. What the Liebherrs have done at Southampton makes so much sense. We don't always need soccer people. Getting individuals from the World Economic Forum or Credit Suisse who bring an outside perspective but understand leadership/business would be huge. Canada has some pull in that regards too with Mark Carney being a prime example of a Canadian who has really made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said: Just reading more about Ralph Kreuger and I really hope they reach out to him. What the Liebherrs have done at Southampton makes so much sense. We don't always need soccer people. Getting individuals from the World Economic Forum or Credit Suisse who bring an outside perspective but understand leadership/business would be huge. Canada has some pull in that regards too with Mark Carney being a prime example of a Canadian who has really made it. I heard him interviewed on Men with Blazers pod a year or two ago and was really fascinating. I'd love for him to be involved somewhere, somehow with the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, Levi Oakey said: Just reading more about Ralph Kreuger and I really hope they reach out to him. What the Liebherrs have done at Southampton makes so much sense. We don't always need soccer people. Getting individuals from the World Economic Forum or Credit Suisse who bring an outside perspective but understand leadership/business would be huge. Canada has some pull in that regards too with Mark Carney being a prime example of a Canadian who has really made it. Southhampton FC K-W ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, matty said: Southhampton FC K-W ? But seriously, outside the Kreuger theory, Maclean's connections through Berwick Sports seems to be a decent theory to explain the "EPL club interested in an Ontario club" reports from the Spectator/Totera/Rollins. Or it could even be that both theories are correct and Southampton are angling to be Maclean's partner If Toronto gets taken by the illusive "Toronto Billionaire", Hamilton is taken by the TiCats, Ottawa by OSEG, a partnership with Maclean (a partner in a well respected player agency in europe) would make a lot of sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: But seriously, outside the Kreuger theory, Maclean's connections through Berwick Sports seems to be a decent theory to explain the "EPL club interested in an Ontario club" reports from the Spectator/Totera/Rollins. Or it could even be that both theories are correct and Southampton are angling to be Maclean's partner If Toronto gets taken by the illusive "Toronto Billionaire", Hamilton is taken by the TiCats, Ottawa by OSEG, a partnership with Maclean (a partner in a well respected player agency in europe) would make a lot of sense And now a post asking for proof of your theories lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 16 hours ago, dsqpr said: Individuals will be disqualified from acting as directors or becoming an owner if they: Are involved or have the power to be involved in another football club This only applies within the same association. These rules were introduced to prevent hanky-panky that would affect standings in a league or cup competition. Sorry to drag up old news from 16 hours and several pages back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 19 minutes ago, ted said: This only applies within the same association. These rules were introduced to prevent hanky-panky that would affect standings in a league or cup competition. Sorry to drag up old news from 16 hours and several pages back. We have moved on Ted. Times have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, ted said: This only applies within the same association. These rules were introduced to prevent hanky-panky that would affect standings in a league or cup competition. Sorry to drag up old news from 16 hours and several pages back. Yeah, it's fairly obvious that the rules only pertain to clubs within the same national association. There are high profile cases of ownership groups controlling several clubs in different countries (including the U.K.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Rheo said: And now a post asking for proof of your theories lol I dunno i was drunk and thought up Southampton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 11 hours ago, shamrock said: Yet China is miles away from the US if you look at player development. Just like MLS is miles away from any Canadian initiative and will be for the near future (at least for a couple of decades). It took a long time but it's hard to argue MLS is not getting traction. Cities are basically fighting eachother to get in (at 100 mil, MLSE headquarters must regularly laugh when thinking about the 10 mil they paid to get in). It is obvious you don't know that football is President's Xi passion. So whether for economic or political or other, a lot of business types are jumping in. Evergrande School is the biggest football boarding school in the world with 48 fields and all Spanish coaches. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/world/asia/china-soccer-xi-jinping.html?_r=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I hope with Totera's CanPL announcement beard that he doesn't end up looking like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said: I hope with Totera's CanPL announcement beard that he doesn't end up looking like this: He's Italian, isn't he? He'll probably look like that by Thursday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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