Cristián Gutiérrez

[SpursFlu]

Good player not great player. 

[MauditYvon]

I hope he goes back to Chile top flight.

[narduch]

Still think its nuts that around June last year Gutierrez, Akindele and Pasher were all on the edge of the national team.

 

[SpecialK]

I think he honestly got screwed by Vancouver. He’s a good solid player. 

[Dominic94]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

Didn't hear it during the broadcast, but apparently Vanni was asked about Gutierrez. His response is that he has no future with the team and he'll be training with WFC2 until he finds a new team.

Listening to the AFTN podcast, they don't think the club is without blame but also lay some of the problems on Gutierrez. Historically, I think they're more likely to normally side with players against the Whitecaps, so this really makes it sound like there's a maturity/attitude issue on his end. And it's not like Vanni has been hesitant to give younger players a chance.

Given that some of their former better players are on the outs it seems as though Vanni is the issue.

[SpecialK]

The whitecaps are a screwed up organization!! Simple as that. 

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Given that some of their former better players are on the outs it seems as though Vanni is the issue.

Which ones are you thinking? Because I don't really see that. Alexander and Godoy had injury issues. Everyone else seems to play fairly regularly. I don't think Crepeau's issue was with Vanni.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, SpecialK said:

The whitecaps are a screwed up organization!! Simple as that. 

They're definitely flawed. But they've given Raposo, Godinho, and Baldisimo plenty of chances this year. So blaming the organization is too easy an out.

[canucksfan]

4 hours ago, SpecialK said:

I think he honestly got screwed by Vancouver. He’s a good solid player. 

He had some moments offensively but he was absolutely atrocious defensively. His side would get torn up as bad as Nerwinski (and I hate that Nerwinski still somehow gets starts).

[BearcatSA]

I don't think he fits the specifics of what Sartini wants in his wingbacks (primarily guys who can run all day, hence the Dajome experiment, but I am not sure what kind of engine Gressel possesses) but he's also not a physical enough defender to play on the left of the back three (including yhe obvious durability issues).  He's a finesse LB not unlike former Canadian international Mike Klukowski.  Actually, he also reminded me of Amundsen at NYCFC, a very left footed but smooth moving attacker capable of playing in a dangerous outswinging cross into dangerous areas behind the back line.  I like his technical strengths but I think he is better suited as a left back in a back four (likewise, Godoy.is better suited as a CB in a back four).

The common denominator with all of Godoy, Gutierrez, and Caio may be fitness, either durability/no injury layoffs or stamina (more important with the latter two in their positions).  Sartini/Schuster seem to like guys at WB /midfield/forward who can cover every blade of grass.

 

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I don't think he fits the specifics of what Sartini wants in his wingbacks (primarily guys who can run all day, hence the Dajome experiment, but I am not sure what kind of engine Gressel possesses) but he's also not a physical enough defender to play on the left of the back three (including yhe obvious durability issues).  He's a finesse LB not unlike former Canadian international Mike Klukowski.  Actually, he also reminded me of Amundsen at NYCFC, a very left footed but smooth moving attacker capable of playing in a dangerous outswinging cross into dangerous areas behind the back line.  I like his technical strengths but I think he is better suited as a left back in a back four (likewise, Godoy.is better suited as a CB in a back four).

The common denominator with all of Godoy, Gutierrez, and Caio may be fitness, either durability/no injury layoffs or stamina (more important with the latter two in their positions).  Sartini/Schuster seem to like guys at WB /midfield/forward who can cover every blade of grass.

 

I agree with this. It's interesting they are not trying to ship him for assets though. Surely he'd have interest elsewhere in the league. He'd actually make a decent back up for Crisito at TFC. Obviously not as good on the defensive end, but I see a lot of similarities going forward. Both are cerebral and technical.

[BearcatSA]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agree with this. It's interesting they are not trying to ship him for assets though. Surely he'd have interest elsewhere in the league. He'd actually make a decent back up for Crisito at TFC. Obviously not as good on the defensive end, but I see a lot of similarities going forward. Both are cerebral and technical.

During the MDS time when he played a few games with Teibert as a "defensive winger" down the left, I was really impressed with how the much maligned captain, Gutierrez, and Cornelius (all predominantly left footed) could short pass the ball progressively from deep in spite of the opposition press.  I think I posted that here at the time.

I thought Godoy could be a good fit at TFC because the natural surface might be better for his health, but the price tag would have been pretty high.  With LB, Gutierrez would be sharing back up duties with Petrasso and Marshall-Rutty, so this year that probably wouldn't be the best for any of those three.

[Obinna]

29 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

During the MDS time when he played a few games with Teibert as a "defensive winger" down the left, I was really impressed with how the much maligned captain, Gutierrez, and Cornelius (all predominantly left footed) could short pass the ball progressively from deep in spite of the opposition press.  I think I posted that here at the time.

I thought Godoy could be a good fit at TFC because the natural surface might be better for his health, but the price tag would have been pretty high.  With LB, Gutierrez would be sharing back up duties with Petrasso and Marshall-Rutty, so this year that probably wouldn't be the best for any of those three.

Good points.

Another thing I thought of, now that you mention Godoy's health, is that Gutierrez seems to chronically be injured. It never seems to be serious, but those little knocks add up to a lot of time on the side line. That may have been the difference between actively trying to ship him to another team and just trying to get him off the wage bill. 

[sandman]

If the whitecaps "screwed" him we should see another MLS team snap him up immediately.

 

They wont. So he played himself out of the MLS.  

[Ivan]

The guy is okay going forward, but a matador on defence.

[BearcatSA]

59 minutes ago, Ivan said:

The guy is okay going forward, but a matador on defence.

Not a physical enough defender in aerial challenges but good at sealing off incisive, through balls.  So-so defending a 1 v 1 dribble, sometimes dove in and got skinned.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, sandman said:

If the whitecaps "screwed" him we should see another MLS team snap him up immediately.

 

They wont. So he played himself out of the MLS.  

Harsh, but I get your point. 

TBF I don't recall games where he was terrible. He's been decent to good. Nothing about his performances suggested he was "too good" or "not good enough" for MLS. In theory, this means another clubs should scoop him up (a la Pasher), but clubs may be concerned about his durability. Furthermore, he probably doesn't qualify as a domestic outside of Canada. Those are two factors that could hinder his case, and there may be more.

Not everyone who to flamed out of MLS "played himself out", but in general you don't flame out of MLS if you're top notch. If your performances are good enough someone will take a chance on you despite the injuries (look at Altidore).

Gutierrez is also a possession player on the lowest-ranked possession team in the league. The Whitecaps are only just figuring themselves out as well. I think this is mostly down to not being a fit for the team. Hopefully another club takes a chance on him. I think he's too good to go down to CPL.

Anyone think Liga MX clubs could take a chance on him? A lot of Chileans have played in Mexico.

[Watchmen]

Latest episode of the AFTN podcast, Sartini discusses the Gutierrez situation.  Says he's back training with the 1st team now and expects him to be with the team next year.  Makes it sound like things have been patched up.

 

https://aftn.ca/episode-531-the-aftn-soccer-show/

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Watchmen said:

Makes it sound like things have been patched up.

  For how long?

[Watchmen]

I think there was the acknowledgement that the late shift in formation would have been perfect for Gutierrez to play in. As well, I think Gutierrez found out that maybe there wasn't the demand for his services that he thought. 

[Obinna]

Very positive news. I've always rated Gutierrez and believe he could be valuable to Canada as a depth player. He's only 25 years old and has been called up to Canada in the past, so he's got some level of familiarity with the group already despite not being capped, kind of like Waterman. 

Him (25) and Abzi (22) should both make for serviceable depth behind the likes of Adekugbe, who's 27 years old. There's potentially a nice stratum of age in the left back position.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

I think there was the acknowledgement that the late shift in formation would have been perfect for Gutierrez to play in. As well, I think Gutierrez found out that maybe there wasn't the demand for his services that he thought. 

This.  

If they shoehorn him again into the LCB because they want Raposo to back up Martins on the left flank, then we might see an issue again.

Talk is cheap.

Edited October 27, 2022 by BearcatSA

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

This.  

If they shoehorn him again into the LCB because they want Raposo to back up Martins on the left flank, then we might see an issue again.

Talk is cheap.

I don't see Raposo as the backup to Martins. Once they switched to a back 4 (sort of) they stopped playing Raposo. If they switch back to a back 3, that's when Raposo might be a factor. But also, I think Gutierrez would play ahead of Martins in a back 4.

[Watchmen]

[BearcatSA]

10 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

Just as I thought.