The Floro Bandwagon

[apbsmith]

Agree with Unnamed Trialist with regards to the ref but we will see when we get a true Central American ref. Anyone that has spent time with spanish speaking Central Americans and South Americans.....they can tell you that community all consider Barcelona and Real Madrid "the best in the world".  Agree or disagree that is how the majority of them feel.   So I agree Floro's pedigree and being Spanish goes a long way. I am sure the last thing a ref would want is have his name tarnished in Spanish by a Spanish manager who coached at the great Real Madrid.

Man, those stats are a bit depressing, 12 shots but only 1 on target.  I know you can't hit the net every time but even El Salvador B team went 3/10 with shots on target.  I guess 12/1 shows effort but end of the day what's the difference between say 3 shots/1 on target in regards to putting the ball in the back of the net.

Hoping the poacher-pitbull Cavalini is healty and stays committed for March (which I believe he will be).  Mexico is a country of pedigree knocking a goal vs them looks amazing on a resume. Strikers should and will be be super motivated, not that they need any more motivation.

[the Humberlands]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/12/08/armchair-analyst-eight-most-intriguing-names-first-ever-crop-mls-free-agency

In the article above, under #7 Ned Grabavoy, a brief blip on Osorio is made:

"He (Grabavoy) still created 32 chances from open play and completed more than 86 percent of his passes. Of players with 30 or more open play chances created, only Darlington Nagbe and Jonathan Osorio were more accurate in their distribution."

In a defensive system that Floro loves to operate in with our team, I don't see how someone of Jonathan Osorio's creative talents cannot be utilized going the other way, especially for a team that has difficulty creating chances and scoring goals. I'm not vouching that Osorio be a starter, but he should at the very least be included in the roster for important games.

Having done well in our last two matches against Honduras & El Salvador, going forward I truly would like to see Floro urging some more creativity on the counter (if that's the system he wants to stick to) and by not including Oso in that fold would go against the notion of having your strongest team for every game.

When Floro HAS access to Canada's potentially strongest squad, but decides NOT to bring Canada's strongest squad (even if its for personal reasons) then he's NOT coaching for the better of Canada and it's supporters but rather for himself, and I don't think we can fully back Floro because of that.

[jpg75]

I would really like Osorio to be called in as well, but unless he apologizes for his behaviour Floro has every right to leave him out. You don't show up your coach.

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, the Humberlands said:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/12/08/armchair-analyst-eight-most-intriguing-names-first-ever-crop-mls-free-agency

In the article above, under #7 Ned Grabavoy, a brief blip on Osorio is made:

"He (Grabavoy) still created 32 chances from open play and completed more than 86 percent of his passes. Of players with 30 or more open play chances created, only Darlington Nagbe and Jonathan Osorio were more accurate in their distribution."

In a defensive system that Floro loves to operate in with our team, I don't see how someone of Jonathan Osorio's creative talents cannot be utilized going the other way, especially for a team that has difficulty creating chances and scoring goals. I'm not vouching that Osorio be a starter, but he should at the very least be included in the roster for important games.

Having done well in our last two matches against Honduras & El Salvador, going forward I truly would like to see Floro urging some more creativity on the counter (if that's the system he wants to stick to) and by not including Oso in that fold would go against the notion of having your strongest team for every game.

When Floro HAS access to Canada's potentially strongest squad, but decides NOT to bring Canada's strongest squad (even if its for personal reasons) then he's NOT coaching for the better of Canada and it's supporters but rather for himself, and I don't think we can fully back Floro because of that.

 

There is a difference between "strongest squad" and "strongest team", remember that.  The strongest team is what we are striving for and if Osorio doesn't fit into Floro's plans for that team, I back Floro.  

Osorio as has been stated hasn't performed in his chances with Canada.  When Osorio has been on the pitch Canada has only ever scored in one match (against Dominica).  When given a massive chance against Costa Rica to start at BMO in a huge match he flopped and sulked when taken off.

Osorio is talented, no doubt.  Would you drop Teibert for Osorio?  I'm sure most would say that maybe Froese would be dropped for him but he obviously has a different skill set and is a more complete player than Osorio.  Yes, it's odd (for us) that a good MLS player isn't being picked but I take it as a positive... it means we have depth.  We need to get over this notion and fuel the ego that players have a right to play for the national team.. it's a privilege.  Osorio will get another chance and when he does he needs to grab it.

Look at the USA... Miguel Ibarra has been getting calls over Ethan Finlay.. Jordan Morris and Alan Gordon have been called over Chris Wondolowski and Clint Dempsey in the recent team.  If you're not indispensable you're dispensable and the coach has the RIGHT to make that call, otherwise we would let FIFA 16 pick our team.  This isn't house league soccer where everyone gets a trophy, feelings are going to get hurt and players will be left out so I hope and I know that Osorio will continue to work toward a recall.  

[Vince193]

10 minutes ago, Keegan said:

 

There is a difference between "strongest squad" and "strongest team", remember that.  The strongest team is what we are striving for and if Osorio doesn't fit into Floro's plans for that team, I back Floro.  

Osorio as has been stated hasn't performed in his chances with Canada.  When Osorio has been on the pitch Canada has only ever scored in one match (against Dominica).  When given a massive chance against Costa Rica to start at BMO in a huge match he flopped and sulked when taken off.

Osorio is talented, no doubt.  Would you drop Teibert for Osorio?  I'm sure most would say that maybe Froese would be dropped for him but he obviously has a different skill set and is a more complete player than Osorio.  Yes, it's odd (for us) that a good MLS player isn't being picked but I take it as a positive... it means we have depth.  We need to get over this notion and fuel the ego that players have a right to play for the national team.. it's a privilege.  Osorio will get another chance and when he does he needs to grab it.

Look at the USA... Miguel Ibarra has been getting calls over Ethan Finlay.. Jordan Morris and Alan Gordon have been called over Chris Wondolowski and Clint Dempsey in the recent team.  If you're not indispensable you're dispensable and the coach has the RIGHT to make that call, otherwise we would let FIFA 16 pick our team.  This isn't house league soccer where everyone gets a trophy, feelings are going to get hurt and players will be left out so I hope and I know that Osorio will continue to work toward a recall.  

Except that for some people (myself included), this doesn't feel like it is a tactical decision, but rather Floro is using that as a mask for the fact he has issues with Osorio.

 

Edit: We will get a better idea of Osorio's standing with Floro if there is a January camp and he's called/not called in.

[Bison44]

This isn't anything new, didn't Radz and P.Pescho both have probs with coaches and drop off the CMNT radar for a time in their prime.  Bottom line is the coach is the man in charge, Tiebert got out of the penatly box, Osorio can too.  So far he is doing the main thing, playing well enough to be included in the squad.  Once he proves to Floro his head is right, attitude is right, I am sure he'll get called again.  And who knows, maybe part of it is tactics, the midfield is getting a little crowded, hard to say who would get dropped in favor of JONO.  

[BearcatSA]

On December 9, 2015 at 8:30 PM, Bison44 said:

This isn't anything new, didn't Radz and P.Pescho both have probs with coaches and drop off the CMNT radar for a time in their prime.  Bottom line is the coach is the man in charge, Tiebert got out of the penatly box, Osorio can too.  So far he is doing the main thing, playing well enough to be included in the squad.  Once he proves to Floro his head is right, attitude is right, I am sure he'll get called again.  And who knows, maybe part of it is tactics, the midfield is getting a little crowded, hard to say who would get dropped in favor of JONO.  

Arfield's potential arrival adds even more competition for midfield spots, and that's a very good thing for the program.

I have had concerns with some of Floro's decisions (some player selections, deep lying set piece defending, two CBs in the midfield in a do or die GC home match), but the one thing he has delivered on is the ability to get new guys on board or, with Cavallini, getting guys back in the fold.  Well done, senor!

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Since the last post we have seen:

Steven Vitória brought into the fold.

The debuts of: Vitória, Crépeau and Dixon with the return of Iain Hume.

The news that Arfield is very very likely to make a debut vs Mexico if all goes well with the paperwork.

Despite the loss vs the USA I'm actually slightly more on the Floro bandwagon than before; I thought we had a decent game against them if we take into account all the subs and new players.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

With Floro's strange line-ups (even for a 4-1-4-1) I'm slightly more off the bandwagon. I don't want him to stick around if we don't make the Hex.

[shermanator]

I think that Floro's going to be gone after this qualifying cycle regardless of whether we make it to the hex or not. Even if we make the hex, I have a feeling he's done after the hex. 

For me, the luster is off Floro, but I'm not as outraged as others over his questionable lineup decisions. I think the senior team is about where we should be given the level of talent (or lack of) that we can pull from, and the real lack of any truly outstanding players coming through the pipeline.

[Blackdude]

24 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

With Floro's strange line-ups (even for a 4-1-4-1) I'm slightly more off the bandwagon. I don't want him to stick around if we don't make the Hex.

Who wants him to stick around if we don't make the Hex? Seriously? Who? I think that Canada Soccer needs to hire a new coach after this cycle even if we make the World Cup. I do  fear that Floro will become Osieck 2.0 and that's why I'd go find a new manager who has a better resume in the past 5 years than Floro had, because if we play our cards rights, we would have done some good dough that we can reinvest in a better coach. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Who wants him to stick around if we don't make the Hex? Seriously? Who? I think that Canada Soccer needs to hire a new coach after this cycle even if we make the World Cup. I do  fear that Floro will become Osieck 2.0 and that's why I'd go find a new manager who has a better resume in the past 5 years than Floro had, because if we play our cards rights, we would have done some good dough that we can reinvest in a better coach. 

This is basically it. He stays as long as we are qualifying, obviously. I would love for him to succeed, but our talent is very limited and you can't say he is really making it flourish.

He's good on getting guys to commit, though partially that has to be the CSA. 

In any case, talking about Holger: we went a very long undefeated stretch, like 15 games, including the Gold Cup win. Then he hit a bit of a wall with the WC qualifying though even then we were close. He was successful, we won something, we competed quite well. Our problem was that we did not build properly on Holger, we squandered the next couple of cycles. 

I also agree that Floro gives us a decent ground to keep building, as long as we hire exactly what you are saying: a younger guy, with recent success, still strong in terms of positional play and defence, but a bit more modern in tactics and a better communicator and motivator. 

[lazlo_80]

...like Bob Bradley.

[jpg75]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinaldo_Rueda

[Levi Oakey]

Copying what I pasted into this thread:

What's frustrating about Floro, to me, is that he seems to hate passionate players. He want's them all to be professors. So edgar get's pissed that he doesn't see the field. The guy has been the Captain-apparent since his u20 days. HE WANTS TO WIN. HE WANTS CANADA TO WIN. Same with Osorio. So they flip their shit when things don't go their way, Floro can't seem to figure out how to use that passion. So he excludes them.

This is what kills Floro for me, he seems to be wanting to eliminate the passion of our players to make them more defensively sound. This at a time that we coaching in Europe has changed drastically. To me, coaching at this level is about psychology. The limited time with players means that you don't really get to "train them". Add in the fact these are adults and most of their skills are developed. What I feel like we are seeing in Europe is a reflection of that, guys like Pochettino, Simeone, Mourinho have realized it's about the players, and making them believe and so you have these firebrands on the bench. Floro is a stick, somehow thinking that his formation is going to be what solves Mexico. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

29 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

...like Bob Bradley.

Not for me no thanks.

 

6 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinaldo_Rueda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93scar_Garc%C3%ADa_Junyent

I think if he'd not had that health scare he'd be coaching in EPL right now. Very solid.

[Kusch to the Corner]

He has got to go and he has got to go now.

I think that we have just enough talent to qualify for the Hex, and doing so would be massive for soccer in this country. If we are attracting crowds like we've just seen in Vancouver for five games in the Hex, I think it would be a game changer for Canadian soccer. Media interest increases, youth participation increases etc.

However, being a realist  I feel like we can only qualify for the hex if we are putting our absolute best 11 on the field.  Floro isn't doing that and thus needs to go. 

[jpg75]

1 minute ago, Kusch to the Corner said:

He has got to go and he has got to go now.

I think that we have just enough talent to qualify for the Hex, and doing so would be massive for soccer in this country. If we are attracting crowds like we've just seen in Vancouver for five games in the Hex, I think it would be a game changer for Canadian soccer. Media interest increases, youth participation increases etc.

However, being a realist  I feel like we can only qualify for the hex if we are putting our absolute best 11 on the field.  Floro isn't doing that and thus needs to go. 

Exactly. There is money to be made through qualifying for the Hex. You need to spend money to make money.

[Moldy9]

Let me just throw this out there: Marc Dos Santos always expressed it was a goal of his to coach the national team. Say what you will but he has a packed resume, knows how to motivate and get the most of his players and has coached in South America. 

Would be nice to have one of our own get the job and it wouldn't be because he is part of a click. He has coaching experience and has shown he can be successful.

http://m.torontosun.com/2016/03/20/ex-fury-coach-thriving-in-kc

[Grizzly]

1 minute ago, Moldy9 said:

Let me just throw this out there: Marc Dos Santos always expressed it was a goal of his to coach the national team. Say what you will but he has a packed resume, knows how to motivate and get the most of his players and has coached in South America. 

Would be nice to have one of our own get the job and it wouldn't be because he is part of a click. He has coaching experience and has shown he can be successful.

http://m.torontosun.com/2016/03/20/ex-fury-coach-thriving-in-kc

Dos Santos has potential and might be a future good candidate but it would be way too early for him now and reminiscent of when we hired Yallop who proved to be a lot poorer of a coach then we thought based on a small MLS sample. Dos Santos was way out of his league with the Impact and was a very poor coach for us except for a short period where the team got hot for a couple of months and we won the league (kind of like that good Gold Cup under Hart). But for most of his time in Montreal we played very poorly, there was a real drop off in every area when he took over from Limniatis. He got some good experience in Brazil and seems to have done well in Ottawa but still a very short time to evaluate him as a 2nd division coach. Dos Santos needs to have consistent success at 1st division level coach for a minimum of 5 years at least to even be a candidate and even then might be better suited for the U20 team to get some international coaching experience.

[MtlMario]

7 minutes ago, Moldy9 said:

Let me just throw this out there: Marc Dos Santos always expressed it was a goal of his to coach the national team. Say what you will but he has a packed resume, knows how to motivate and get the most of his players and has coached in South America. 

Would be nice to have one of our own get the job and it wouldn't be because he is part of a click. He has coaching experience and has shown he can be successful.

http://m.torontosun.com/2016/03/20/ex-fury-coach-thriving-in-kc

I wasn't going to put in my 2 cents until after the Sept. games but here we go. If we don't get to the Hex I think Dos Santos would be the perfect coach for us. Start playing all our young guys with a few older players (Hoillet/Arfield) as there will be 4 years of friendlies (not counting Gold Cup of course) to prepare us for the next round of qualifying.

[Moldy9]

Grizz you can't entirely blame Dos Santos for Impacts crappy 2011 season. NDS played a major role or lack there of of not taking the last year in NASL seriously. They knew they were revamping once in MLS the next year.  To his credit he won the NASL in 2009 and almost won it again last year albeit with an expansion team. This all with limited resources and not the cash or star players.  A good candidate so long as he continues the good work he's doing. 

[Vince193]

I'd like for Michael Findlay to take over from Floro. He coached the Ghana game and that was the most fun I had watching Canada play. I know its just a friendly but he seems to have a good mind for the team.

[lazlo_80]

Floro won't be gone until they're out of qualifying. And to be honest, I don't think he deserves to be. We're tied for second in a tough group. you have to see how the September games playout to make an assessment on his performance.

[Grizzly]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

In any case, talking about Holger: we went a very long undefeated stretch, like 15 games, including the Gold Cup win. Then he hit a bit of a wall with the WC qualifying though even then we were close. He was successful, we won something, we competed quite well. Our problem was that we did not build properly on Holger, we squandered the next couple of cycles. 

I also agree that Floro gives us a decent ground to keep building, as long as we hire exactly what you are saying: a younger guy, with recent success, still strong in terms of positional play and defence, but a bit more modern in tactics and a better communicator and motivator. 

I think the hires after Osieck were the big mistake, 3 amateur level coaches in Yallop, Mitchell and Hart. Not every coach is going to work out, even not every good coach but we have to be hiring at that level of good, professional level coach every time. I think Floro has been a big step in the right direction, the team is better organized, they are more disciplined, they play in a structure, they seem to learn from him after every camp. But there are some negatives as well, some bizarre player selections, like Osieck he has the team more disciplined but is starting to build up conflicts with too many players. That being said, I think he has us where we should be at this point, Honduras is tieable and even beatable at home and El Salvador has shown they are good enough to take points off other teams even at home. I think we are still better prepared going into the next Honduras match than we were under Hart and have a good chance to advance after this round. If we don't advance to the Hex, I do think we should change coaches but I think that Floro has brought a lot to the program as a whole and advancing our players while I don't think Yallop, Mitchell or Hart advanced the program at all. (And before someone mentions it, yes maybe Hart is a good coach now with T and T after all the amazing opportunity to learn we gave him but he was not a good coach when we had him although his squad selection was at least more standard). I think we are going into the next 2 matches with a 50/50 chance of advancing which I find fairly acceptable giving the level of talent we have. 

As for eventual replacements, Rueda would really be at the top of my list as I was totally impressed with what he did with Honduras and how he had them playing. I suspect he would be a bit more expensive than Floro but with us selling out BC Place and the team showing that the fanbase is growing I would hope he or someone similar would be affordable for us. I am still on the Floro bandwagon for the rest of the cycle (I was off the Hart bandwagon pretty much before WCQ and feel completely legitimized about that) but I am also not blind to the areas where I think things could be improved.