nolbertos Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What would those coaches bring exactly that Floro hasn't? The players love Floro, take note. I don't think there's one player in that room who would put the loss or their performance on their coach. They respect him, he has coached and was president of the biggest club in the world. You don't get those two positions by accident. Would Miscevic or van't Schip teach us how to finish somehow better than Floro? Doubtful. It would be the same bland predictable footy, managers don't change that at the international level. Not with countries like us anyhow, we have a set pool and that's that. I don't know about players respecting Floro. Osorio didn't look to be a Floro fan and when Tiebert was asked about Floro, he skirtef the question that he always play for his country. I get the sense there's a small mutiny brewing against Floro after the dismal Gold Cup campaign. I'm sure some players won't say that publicly but privately a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 It may be hugs and kisses with Floro on the dressing room, but that is not winning us games. I am sure players want to win. I don't know what Floro wants, but whatever it is it ain't cutting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg_29 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Analytics: Debunking Canada’s good defence myth http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/soccer-analytics-concacaf-gold-cup-canada-united-states-mexico/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Analytics: Debunking Canada’s good defence myth http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/soccer-analytics-concacaf-gold-cup-canada-united-states-mexico/ Interesting statistics that debunks Floro's claims. Besides him saying what about the other teams not scoring, to me it is a fool's consolation to think everyone is in the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramoor Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 how does that stat method figure in blocked shots because there were some quality shots that were easily blocked due to proper positioning off of corners and set pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 how does that stat method figure in blocked shots because there were some quality shots that were easily blocked due to proper positioning off of corners and set pieces There were also some quality shots that were blocked as last gasp efforts from being totally out of position or inviting pressure onto the defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The more advanced xG metrics split the shot into before the shot and after the shot to account for that kind of defensive pressure but I don't know these Gold Cup stats were put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Is there a place to find xG per game? For example of that 1.7, how much of it is from the ESV match where Larin's chance should really be a 0.95+ but is definitely weighted less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOGAKANATA Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Hopelessness is worse, it leads to apathy and a lack of caring. It should not be a hope issue it should be an expectations issue. We have low expectations in this country when it comes to men's soccer and that needs to change so that greater accountability can be enacted throughout the system. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolbertos Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Saw this article on twitter. Whoever wrote it suns up my feelings of jubilation ar that time and anger at the present day of Canadian futbol. These are truly dark times in Canadian futbol. The article is a recap of the Gold Cup 2000 winning team and how Canada was then to now. http://mlsmultiplex.com/2015/07/16/canadian-champions-look-back-2000-gold-cup/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingback6 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Analytics is the most useless crap on earth. Ok, maybe not all. But the article author performs a classic straw man fallacy. His argument holds water, only if you accept that those stats are good indicators for effective defence. Which, I don't think they are. His numbers fail to take into account the fact that we are a weaker team in regards of possession and ceding. So you would expect better teams to get better statistics. We are a weaker side, especially in ball control. If you are poor in control, you spend more time defending. If you spend more time defending, you concede more shots. So his numbers actually work against him. For all those additional shots, we only conceded one goal. Where as El Sal, and Jamaica, despite having having fewer shots conceded, allowed in more. And as far ase the 'ExG'. That is the most meaningless nonsense I have ever seen in a long time. I would love to see someone walk into a locker room after a tie and start screaming about all the ExG's the team let in. I mean, how the fuck do you even talk about % chance of a goal going in. Seriously pointless nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennon Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 xG is currently the best predictor of future results out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Put me in the camp that thinks football stats are BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 As mentioned above, xG measures exist because they've been shown to be the best predictor of future performance of goal scoring for teams and individuals and therefore are a good judge of true quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Analytics is the most useless crap on earth. Ok, maybe not all. But the article author performs a classic straw man fallacy. His argument holds water, only if you accept that those stats are good indicators for effective defence. Which, I don't think they are. His numbers fail to take into account the fact that we are a weaker team in regards of possession and ceding. So you would expect better teams to get better statistics. We are a weaker side, especially in ball control. If you are poor in control, you spend more time defending. If you spend more time defending, you concede more shots. So his numbers actually work against him. For all those additional shots, we only conceded one goal. Where as El Sal, and Jamaica, despite having having fewer shots conceded, allowed in more. And as far ase the 'ExG'. That is the most meaningless nonsense I have ever seen in a long time. I would love to see someone walk into a locker room after a tie and start screaming about all the ExG's the team let in. I mean, how the fuck do you even talk about % chance of a goal going in. Seriously pointless nonsense. As someone who has worked in hockey analytics they absolutely have a place in sports if you do them right. Interesting article. But I'm not sure how effective the analytics are in this case. I think we defended well in this tournament and the danger our opponents created was usually due to our own mistakes. Can we hold Floro accountable for the mistakes of our own players? I think he had us organized and tough to break down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I think he had us organized and tough to break down. There is a time for bunkering, but not all the time. Floro is a master of bunkering, but games are won with goals. He needs to learn now how to attack and score regardless of players mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 You can't be bunkering AND creating scoring opportunities. You can't be creating AND stopping opponents from scoring against us (not with the quality of players we have). How can you get Larin to score that one chance he got (created himself) by rounding the keeper? Just a matter of form, nothing a coach can do about that. Yet it would have meant reaching the next stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 There is a time for bunkering, but not all the time. Floro is a master of bunkering, but games are won with goals. He needs to learn now how to attack and score regardless of players mistakes. When did we ever bunker? Not once in the tournament did we play a bunker style... if we did we would have drawn Jamaica 0-0 and we would have gone through to the QF. A "bunker" style is 10 men behind the ball. Floro played with balance, just because we couldn't score doesn't mean we bunkered lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 When did we ever bunker? Not once in the tournament did we play a bunker style... if we did we would have drawn Jamaica 0-0 and we would have gone through to the QF. A "bunker" style is 10 men behind the ball. Floro played with balance, just because we couldn't score doesn't mean we bunkered lol. Doesnt mean we played to win either. More like not to lose emphasizing shape and defensive coverage over creativity and getting forward. Looked like our forwards and attacking players were afraid to get forward for fear of being out of position in the defensive end and have floro punish them with no playing time. As cuba showed, scoring a goal when it matters means a lot more than not allowing any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamrock Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 In hindsight Floro should have taken a bit more risk in te rist game. that is all I can blame him for and still I can understand he doesn't want a bad result in the first game of the tournament. That would probably have killed all hope in the group as well as in the country. And still, Larin scores that one big chance and Canada goes through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 When did we ever bunker? Not once in the tournament did we play a bunker style... if we did we would have drawn Jamaica 0-0 and we would have gone through to the QF. A "bunker" style is 10 men behind the ball. Floro played with balance, just because we couldn't score doesn't mean we bunkered lol. Thanks. We did not bunker as did not play a team that required it of us. Play a team with killer possession in your half, and deadly strikers, you bunker. And pray. We did not do that. As you correctly say we were balanced, for the liking of some a bit heavy at the back, but balanced. And actually quite wide too. And believe me I know what it means to "park the bus" as I see it against Barca all the time, and we did not do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Value of analytics really shows when we get articles like "here's why we all should've known [player x] would be a failure last season". Basically picking and choosing the stats to make a point after the fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAVIERF Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 HOW MANY PLAYERS FROM THE 3 MLS CANADIAN TEAMS ARE CANUCKS? BEKKER, TISSOT, OUIMETTE, MORGAN , OSORIO , TEIBERT ONLY SIX PLAYERS WHEN IT SHOULD BE 10 OR 11 AT LEAST WHAT HAPPENED TO STIMSON AND BORDIEU-BOURGAULT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 The style of play was consistent with what I have seen under his tenure and confirms how he views the abilities of the players he has available. I'm just curious to see who gets (and, more importantly, answers) the call for the next round of WCQ qualifiers. This tourney has certainly increased the scrutiny on the Spaniard's coaching decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Put me in the camp that thinks football stats are BS. Statistics are like mini-skirts, shows a lot of things but does not show what is essential - Sir Authur Ferguson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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