Keegan Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I would have brought Aleman on vs El Salvador. We controlled possession vs El Salvador? You mean defenders passing it around in our half? Or Cyle Larin running 1v5 against El Salvador's back line? Subbing one offensive CM in a 4-5-1 is not "throwing caution to the wind". It's about trying to find a hint of balance when a team is out of ideas. And played him as a defensive midfielder? We aren't turtling people... we are playing a rigid system. If we had players like Mexico we would be scoring but we don't, so we aren't. We had chances to create against ES and we just didn't.. that's what happens when the other team keys in on our one threat (Hoilett) and Ricketts can't deliver the goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Hmmm, maybe I was watching a different game. I was screaming at the screen for the fullbacks to get the hell back vs El Salvador. It looked like DeJong had a green light to go forward and try and make something happen on his side and the rest of the line was ready to cover for him. I still dont like the subs coming so late, and maybe Rickets would be better as a late game sub, but I do think Floro loosened the reigns a little. He let a guys he trusts and has a class left foot go forward to try and get some crosses in. Floro is not the kind of coach that is going to throw in a 4-4-2 with a bunch of different starters just because it looks like we have a good chance of getting the 3 points on the road. He is not that flexible, this isn't FIFA 15 where you can plug new players in and it all works out fine. At least we didn't give up the point in the last 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I think the Floro Bandwagon relies a ton on the drive train provided by a very few key performers. He knows he has a team of role players and accommodates his strategy for the skillsets of the bulk of his playing pool. Perhaps not the right analogy, but his team has the feel of a mid to lower standing La Liga side that needs to have said role players understanding the system and grinding out results, even against like or lesser opponents. I think his manner here is not that different from what Trappatoni did with Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 And played him as a defensive midfielder? We aren't turtling people... we are playing a rigid system. If we had players like Mexico we would be scoring but we don't, so we aren't. We had chances to create against ES and we just didn't.. that's what happens when the other team keys in on our one threat (Hoilett) and Ricketts can't deliver the goods. Bingo. The 3 DM system is a...3 DM system. Perhaps you can bring in a player with some attacking flair but still an understanding of defensive responsibility (ie Teibert or Osorio), but a completely undisciplined player like Aleman who hasn't even been called to a squad since 2013? That is an awful amount of risk for a rather nominal gain. Would it be nice to have six points? Sure. But if it was as easy as saying GET FORWARD AND SCORE and then we would win every match 1-0 I'm pretty sure Floro would do that. He's not just sitting there going 'well let's get six 0-0 draws this round.' Instead the focus is on building a rigid, strong defensive structure that gives us a great chance at clean sheets, with the sole goal to outchance the opposition and hopefully take advantage of those situations. Based on the xG charts from the last two matches he succeeded both times. One time we bundled it in, one time we hit the crossbar. The whole 'Honduras will walk through the next three matches and take 9 points with ease' is a bit weird to me. If you dropped someone in from outer space with an intricate knowledge of CONCACAF but with amnesia specifically towards October 15, 2012 they would say there is no reason we can't pick up a draw in Honduras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloyol Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 It seems some people here equates a 0-0 with defensive tactics with no regards of how the game was played. Like someone said a few message above, against El Salvador I thought our fullbacks were going to high and that was exposing our back 4 and midfield in the counter (specially at the end of the game). Fullbacks going to high isn't defensive tactics. At the end of the game I thought we were too offensive considering what we had to lose. We are a team compose of very average players (except for Atiba and maybe Hoilett) and who are most often than not limited in the skills department so even if we want, we will never be like Barca or Bayern. That being said, I think we played the right style of play in both games, limiting the opponents good chances and creating a couple here and there. Enough for 4 points That being said, I still have some reservations about Floro. Mainly, the way we defend free kicks, that nonsense must stop. Also, I know I might be annoying with that but I feel like OO should be looked at in the January camp to at least put some pressure on Larin (who's been very average for us, specially when asked to hold the ball) and see if he can offers something to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 That being said, I still have some reservations about Floro. Mainly, the way we defend free kicks, that nonsense must stop. Also, I know I might be annoying with that but I feel like OO should be looked at in the January camp to at least put some pressure on Larin (who's been very average for us, specially when asked to hold the ball) and see if he can offers something to the team. Paul Dolan was interviewed on the Footysoldiers podcast immediately after the Honduras game. They asked him about the approach of defending deep on set pieces and Dolan gave their rationale. It's worth a listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I will say one thing though: Floro is probably the perfect manager to have to try to squeak out a draw versus Mexico! His "just don't lose" philosophy will work wonders in this case! So that's good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloyol Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Paul Dolan was interviewed on the Footysoldiers podcast immediately after the Honduras game. They asked him about the approach of defending deep on set pieces and Dolan gave their rationale. It's worth a listen. Thanks for pointing me to this podcast. I just listen to it and don't buy Dolan explanations. First, I feel like he's defending party line here and I,m not sure he believes in it too much. Second, this way of defending FK doesn't allow your GK to come out unless the ball is directly into his hands. Third, yes we haven't been scored on a FK lately but we have given many opportunities on it. IMO, it's a question of time before we get caught on it. Does anybody here has an example of a team (National team or club) that is defending that way. Honestly, I watch a lot of soccer and don't remember seeing that for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamR Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I would have brought Aleman on vs El Salvador. We controlled possession vs El Salvador? You mean defenders passing it around in our half? Or Cyle Larin running 1v5 against El Salvador's back line? Subbing one offensive CM in a 4-5-1 is not "throwing caution to the wind". It's about trying to find a hint of balance when a team is out of ideas. Just out of curiosity, how much of Aleman have you seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyb Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 For now i'm still on the Bandwagon. Mexico will be the biggest test. if we can get 1-3 points against Mexico in the Home and Away using his "just don't lose" system, i'll be in for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanfromvancouver Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Paul Dolan was interviewed on the Footysoldiers podcast immediately after the Honduras game. They asked him about the approach of defending deep on set pieces and Dolan gave their rationale. It's worth a listen. People listen to that Footy soldiers drivel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 I'm not sold on the Benito Special and the hype surrounding this years record and the T T T (Turtle Turtle Tactic). Who did we beat to get that record? Belize, Guatemala, Dominicax2, Puerto Rico, and Honduras with a Larin backer. Just not buying into the propaganda and not sure how this tactic will get us goals against Mexico at home. Can't expect him to play attacking cause it doesn't seem like attack is part of his repertoire. You're just pissed that you didn't get to see your poster boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Paul Dolan was interviewed on the Footysoldiers podcast immediately after the Honduras game. They asked him about the approach of defending deep on set pieces and Dolan gave their rationale. It's worth a listen. Dolan comes on around minute 10. Interesting explanation http://www.footysoldiers.com/new-page-1/ Interview with Floro about Benitez at Real Madrid with maybe some insight on his ideas of discipline: "The day-to-day battle is no bed of roses. When a coach is too easy-going and gives in, the team gain nothing". http://www.marca.com/en/2015/11/17/en/football/real_madrid/1447716476.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 People listen to that Footy soldiers drivel? Only 17 people I understand. Regardless of whether or not you think it's drivel, Dolan's comments on their approach to defending set pieces stand alone and are interesting in their own respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanfromvancouver Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Only 17 people I understand. Regardless of whether or not you think it's drivel, Dolan's comments on their approach to defending set pieces stand alone and are interesting in their own respect. Glad it is only 17 people. Those guys offend me at the deepest level. They compare soccer players going over to Europe and becoming team captains to Canadians fighting for their lives in WW1 and WW2. Even making WW2 influenced "dossiers" for a couple of players. The drawings of two of their hosts are in military style gear. I just think this is so disgusting I hope nobody ever listens to whatever drivel they want to barf into a microphone. Putting that stuff aside, I hope most of the Vancouver market is educated enough to see through Shaad's so called opinions and where they actually come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldy9 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 You're just pissed that you didn't get to see your poster boy! you mean Wandrille Lefevre? Yes (Might as well been him on the ads since it makes no difference right) I get everyone's reasoning for the T.T.T. but this brand of footie is not the most attractive to watch and I do believe we can offer more offense. Plus to make it you gotta win games on the road. Draws don't really get you ahead but wins do. We had 10 points from last cycle, won in Cuba, 2 wins and one draw at home and that still was not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 you mean Wandrille Lefevre? Yes (Might as well been him on the ads since it makes no difference right) I get everyone's reasoning for the T.T.T. but this brand of footie is not the most attractive to watch and I do believe we can offer more offense. Plus to make it you gotta win games on the road. Draws don't really get you ahead but wins do. We had 10 points from last cycle, won in Cuba, 2 wins and one draw at home and that still was not good enough. That group was totally different. It had one very weak team Cuba (weaker than El Salvador) that did not get any points until the final game against an already qualified Panama and three teams of similar ability who took points off each other. The final points of the group were 11, 11, 10, 1. This time we have a group with a dominant team, two teams of similar ability and a weaker team that is still capable of competing with the other teams. The point spread will be a lot different. Yes we could have attacked ES more and possibly won but we also could have tired ourselves out, made a couple of mistakes and lost the match. 6 points is obviously better but 4 is not bad either. Our next three matches are also really suited to Floro's strong defence, counter-attacking style and without this style I don't think we would have much chance against Mexico and possibly even Honduras away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm amazed no one has mentioned it, it is one of the main reasons to be on the Floro Bandwagon: we have not had a bogus or even questionable call against us since he has been our manager. At least not one affecting a result. In fact, just the opposite, we've been treated rather well. I think our rivals have complained more than us about reffing. You can see it on this board, all our defects are our own, and the merits are the rivals'. It could be mere luck. If not, it could have an explanation: Floro has prestige. In Spanish speaking Concacaf, they highly respect him. And refs do too. Perhaps I should not exaggerate this, but not one "hispanic" CONCACAF ref really wants to risk hearing his name raked over the coals in the Spanish press. Have you seen the press that gathered around Floro when we got to ES, last game? And I don't think the other sort of refs we get, Anglo-Caribbean, are interested in being the butt of his wrath either. Though usually we do better, a bit better, with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRM Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 The advantage of being able to swear in the ref's native language. I can see that having an effect. Seriously I think it is part language, part luck and part our coach has a higher profile than previous coaches of ours. I'll go with mostly luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 The only thing to keep in mind when comparing Cuba to El Salvador, yes I agree El Salvador usually through history is a better soccer nation than Cuba, but then again I have not looked at the history in World Cup qualifying between Cuba and El Salvador and compared them to see who has more wins throughout history. But let's assume that El Salvador is the better one, however, the team Canada played on Tuesday night was missing their best players so a B side more or less was on the field, therefore, that B side I would believe would be comparable to that Cuba team in the last WC qualifying for Brazil 2014, and Canada was able to get a win in Cuba. After 2 games the last time around we had the same amount of points,however, now we have a Mexico to deal with to try and get at least a point at home, we did not have such a strong team to face at home the last time after 2 games with the same amount of points going into the remaining games, moreover, keep in mind we might be facing El Salvador's best players when we play them at home if the strike is resolved, so it will not be easy getting the full 3 points even at home against El Salvador if their full team is the one Canada plays at home. Getting any points in Honduras and especially in Mexico will be a miracle so it's going to be very tough to get points, we have to hope things go are way in the other games for Canada to advance to the Hex, that's what I think it will come down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Our next three matches are also really suited to Floro's strong defence, counter-attacking style and without this style I don't think we would have much chance against Mexico and possibly even Honduras away. I think Floro's rep and c.v. give him more cachet into player buy-in for his tactics. However, so much still depends upon key player availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldy9 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm amazed no one has mentioned it, it is one of the main reasons to be on the Floro Bandwagon: we have not had a bogus or even questionable call against us since he has been our manager. At least not one affecting a result. In fact, just the opposite, we've been treated rather well. I think our rivals have complained more than us about reffing. You can see it on this board, all our defects are our own, and the merits are the rivals'. It could be mere luck. If not, it could have an explanation: Floro has prestige. In Spanish speaking Concacaf, they highly respect him. And refs do too. Perhaps I should not exaggerate this, but not one "hispanic" CONCACAF ref really wants to risk hearing his name raked over the coals in the Spanish press. Have you seen the press that gathered around Floro when we got to ES, last game? And I don't think the other sort of refs we get, Anglo-Caribbean, are interested in being the butt of his wrath either. Though usually we do better, a bit better, with them. that's a very good observation. Makes sense. Maybe they don't want to get exposed for the joke they are. I saw during pre and post game interviews from the El Salvador press how much respect they gave Benito. And I too thought to myself in an ambassador role it's terrific having someone that can communicate fluently to their media and not have some barrier like if we would with a Canadian English "gringo" speaking manager. But lets not get our hopes up considering there's still plenty of time for Benito to get his cherry popped and be CONCACAF'ed. Grizz reference your post I somewhat agree. Yes there's a time to deploy the T.T.T. and against Mexico at home and away have at 'er, I will completely understand and support it but against a 2nd tier ES B team, that was a golden opportunity to get 3 pts and solidify our position and sadly we didn't go for it (3 chances), which in the end could be a factor when we look back. Despite this I'll put my faith en el viejito Benito (que juega el juego feito) y en el divino niño, that we will make the hex. I think we can get 3 pts or draw at home and a draw at Azteca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I still don't understand.. what makes people think we turtled against El Salvador? We just couldn't score.. we didn't turtle. We pushed full backs up.. a "textbook" non-turtle move. We just don't have talent in the final third to consistently score at will... simple as, we had chances but ended up with a 0-0. If Hoilett scored that goal in the first half we look like an offensive juggernaut but that's football for a weak side like us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moldy9 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 the stats show Canada with one shot on goal and no corners. That's not offense that wins you three points. Also added some comments from people who more or less share my sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince193 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 the stats show Canada with one shot on goal and no corners. That's not offense that wins you three points. Also added some comments from people who more or less share my sentiments. Don't show Rollins or others that. Apparently a point in Central America is a win, even if we faced a B team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.