Ranking Our Top 5 Prospects/Young Players

[Cicero]

On 12/2/2022 at 6:55 PM, phresh said:

What do Forge fans think about Kwasi Poku? I was impressed with his play at the U-20's in June.

I thought he played his role effectively. It seems to me that Smyrniotis is pretty strict about how the team is supposed to play. It has mostly been effective, but I don’t think it leaves a lot of room for individual creativity, especially in midfield. I don’t recall him making many mistakes, but he didn’t really stand out either, so he did the job he was supposed to do. I’d have to check, but I believe his minutes dwindled as the season progressed, and he didn’t get into either playoff game. Not sure why, but Jensen seemed to be preferred near the end. I was more impressed by Belewu at CB. Unfortunately, it seems he probably isn’t a possibility for Canada.

[Bigandy]

Thinking about our top 5 prospects I made my list

1. Koleosho - He was getting minutes in la liga before his injury. His ceiling seems to be the highest. 
2.Corbeanu - Involved with CMNT and his constant involvement from wolves means they rate him highly. 
3. Jebbison  - I think he has a higher ceiling than corbeanu but I think he needs at least 1 more year in the championship
4. Smith - His development has stalled but I think he will develop in a position of need. Maybe wont end up as good of a player as some of the lower ranks, but his value to the national team is there. 
5. Rutty - I am skeptical of his development recently. It feels he needs to figure out his position before I see him climbing higher than 5 on our prospects list. He does have a high ceiling though.

Honourable mentions:
6. Dias 
7. Zouhir
8. Nelson
9. Costa
10. Goodman? 

[Norrin Radd]

15 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Thinking about our top 5 prospects I made my list

1. Koleosho - He was getting minutes in la liga before his injury. His ceiling seems to be the highest. 
2.Corbeanu - Involved with CMNT and his constant involvement from wolves means they rate him highly. 
3. Jebbison  - I think he has a higher ceiling than corbeanu but I think he needs at least 1 more year in the championship
4. Smith - His development has stalled but I think he will develop in a position of need. Maybe wont end up as good of a player as some of the lower ranks, but his value to the national team is there. 
5. Rutty - I am skeptical of his development recently. It feels he needs to figure out his position before I see him climbing higher than 5 on our prospects list. He does have a high ceiling though.

Honourable mentions:
6. Dias 
7. Zouhir
8. Nelson
9. Costa
10. Goodman? 

I'd have Priso somewhere on that list. He has a lower ceiling than Koleosho, Corbeanu and some of the others but he's already shown that he can play in the MLS. He's great at winning the ball and distributing it. Even with moderate improvements in those areas he'll be an above average MLS midfielder and very likely a CMNT depth option.

[Bigandy]

1 minute ago, Norrin Radd said:

I'd have Priso somewhere on that list. He has a lower ceiling than Koleosho, Corbeanu and some of the others but he's already shown that he can play in the MLS. He's great at winning the ball and distributing it. Even with moderate improvements in those areas he'll be an above average MLS midfielder and very likely a CMNT depth option.

Good point! Smith is on my list so high because of potential but priso is more proven. He could go anywhere on the honorable mention list imo.

[InglewoodJack]

Jebbsion

Nelson

Corbeanu

JMR

Koleosho

My ranking is heavily influenced by probability of hitting your potential. I could flip Nelson and Corbeanu, but Nelson is younger and will likely play next year for a club at/above theo's club. Koleosho would probably be #2 if I was convinced he was going to commit to us. I think Jebbison is in the bag.

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Norrin Radd said:

I'd have Priso somewhere on that list. He has a lower ceiling than Koleosho, Corbeanu and some of the others but he's already shown that he can play in the MLS. He's great at winning the ball and distributing it. Even with moderate improvements in those areas he'll be an above average MLS midfielder and very likely a CMNT depth option.

I am more optimistic on Priso than Zouhir. Not that I am low on the Montreal man, but he's basically just had a cup of coffee with Montreal. Priso meanwhile has gone on to play 25 games for Toronto, scoring two goals. He's also played the same amount for Colorado in half a season than Zouhir has played with Montreal in two seasons, basically. He's just a year older, but much further along than Zouhir, and that's with a major injury to contend with. He would have been even further along if not for that. 

[Norrin Radd]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I am more optimistic on Priso than Zouhir. Not that I am low on the Montreal man, but he's basically just had a cup of coffee with Montreal. Priso meanwhile has gone on to play 25 games for Toronto, scoring two goals. He's also played the same amount for Colorado in half a season than Zouhir has played with Montreal in two seasons, basically. He's just a year older, but much further along than Zouhir, and that's with a major injury to contend with. He would have been even further along if not for that. 

My biggest worry about Priso is that injury. Hopefully he can make a complete recovery but it was a bit strange that he got benched for a stretch in Colorado.

[Aird25]

Russel-Rowe's 33 goal contributions in 29 matches is impressive. Let's see if he can do it at a higher level. I feel like I'm the only one that talks about him, but I think Ahmed Alghamdi might be a player we regret losing if we don't give him a look soon. 

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

 but I think Ahmed Alghamdi might be a player we regret losing if we don't give him a look soon. 

Isn't he basically lost already?

By the way I am also on the JRR fan club. I thought he did enough in his limited MLS minutes last year to warrant more playing time at that level.

[Obinna]

52 minutes ago, Norrin Radd said:

My biggest worry about Priso is that injury. Hopefully he can make a complete recovery but it was a bit strange that he got benched for a stretch in Colorado.

For sure that's a concern. I don't know what was behind that exactly, but I just assumed it was form related and not injury related, though I suppose the lines between them could be blurred. Maybe the drop in form (if there was a drop in form) is related to him not fully regaining his confidence post-injury?

Perhaps though it's something as simple as just easing him into the system at Colorado gradually...

Looking at his game log on transfermarkt, I see that his "benching" started on September 5th and lasted until November first. The next match, which was the last match of the season, he got a single minute. I assume this is when Colorado is eliminated, hence they could give him a final run out. Before that, in the stretch he was benched, Colorado would have in playoff contention (up to a point), so they may have deferred to the more "proven" players to get them over that line. Interestingly though, that point of elimination was actually October 1.

What happened then for a full month? Why not play him? Seems odd. Maybe the Rapids still felt it was important to put points on the board, finish strong, thus no reason to rush to integrate Priso? He's young and he was on the bench every game, so there was a certain level of trust there. I suspect though results at that point mattered, despite the elimination. If they never believed in him, or felt he wasn't healthy, probably they wouldn't bother to dress him, so from that context nothing to really worry about.

How next season starts will be telling!

Edit: My mistake, I read the stat log wrong, the benching lasting until Oct 1 (not Nov 1), and the Rapids were eliminated Oct 1, but the regular season ended the following week! That means his benching completely coincided with their playoff push. When they were eliminated, Priso was back on the field the next (and final) match. It was a single minute, mind you, but an indication that his benching was more about the play-off push than Priso playing badly or being injured. He joined mid-season, and he's a young guy, so I am not surprised (or concerned) that he wasn't seeing the field during that play-off push. It's understandable.

Now though, new season fresh start, he has to get minutes and get starts. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Obinna
correction

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Jebbsion

Nelson

Corbeanu

JMR

Koleosho

My ranking is heavily influenced by probability of hitting your potential. I could flip Nelson and Corbeanu, but Nelson is younger and will likely play next year for a club at/above theo's club. Koleosho would probably be #2 if I was convinced he was going to commit to us. I think Jebbison is in the bag.

With you logic of hitting potential, i love that list. 

Not that I disagree, but I am curious on nelson. I agree that he has a high probability of hitting his potential, but I view him as an Osorio level player (based on a gut feeling only). What do you think his ceiling is and which position do you think he will end up at? Is he far behind MAK (in terms of quality, not necessarily as the same position)

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

I am more optimistic on Priso than Zouhir. Not that I am low on the Montreal man, but he's basically just had a cup of coffee with Montreal. Priso meanwhile has gone on to play 25 games for Toronto, scoring two goals. He's also played the same amount for Colorado in half a season than Zouhir has played with Montreal in two seasons, basically. He's just a year older, but much further along than Zouhir, and that's with a major injury to contend with. He would have been even further along if not for that. 

Good points. I think youre right but theres a bit of bias towards zouhir in my mind. I think hes more unknown than priso which means i assume he will be better, and I compare him to Kone and optimistically hope for the same trajectory.

I agree priso is further in his development but which player do you think has the higher ceiling? 

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

With you logic of hitting potential, i love that list. 

Not that I disagree, but I am curious on nelson. I agree that he has a high probability of hitting his potential, but I view him as an Osorio level player (based on a gut feeling only). What do you think his ceiling is and which position do you think he will end up at? Is he far behind MAK (in terms of quality, not necessarily as the same position)

Nelson is about 6 months younger right now than Osorio was when he played his first match for TFC, and Nelson already has 50 caps, including having started nearly every game he's played in in 2022. No clue what his ceiling is, but he played about as much as Kone did last year, at a year younger, and Kone looks very well on his way to Serie A next year, unless Watford makes the premier league. 

All of the rumors point to clubs like Brugge and Anderlecht being highly interested in him- he'd already be in Belgium if TFC agreed to the fee. If in a year or two he's a regular starter in Belgium which is a very realistic goal, he'd have one of the best club situations of any players in our pool.

We've been talking about him so long, I think we forget that he's still only 19. What I like about him is that even with all of the turnover at TFC, he was always part of the mix. whereas JMR was shuffled around, benched, played out of position, he maintained his starting spot for the entire season. Being given that level of responsibility at 19 for a club in a league as good as MLS is no small feat.

Even if he caps out on the Osorio level, JO is still one of Canada's best players. A respectable career in Belgium or the Championship (where I think Osorio could've realistically had a nice career if he went abroad) would still make him one this generation (the one after AD/David/Buchanan crop)'s most illustrious players.

Edited January 18, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Obinna]

42 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I agree priso is further in his development but which player do you think has the higher ceiling? 

I would say the ceilings are arguably similar, though I lean Priso out of bias, just because I have seen a bigger sample size of what he can do. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

With you logic of hitting potential, i love that list. 

Not that I disagree, but I am curious on nelson. I agree that he has a high probability of hitting his potential, but I view him as an Osorio level player (based on a gut feeling only). What do you think his ceiling is and which position do you think he will end up at? Is he far behind MAK (in terms of quality, not necessarily as the same position)

I tend to look at it the opposite way. The fact that we know relatively little about Zouhir is directly related to the fact that he couldn’t get on the pitch for CFM.  This isn’t some kid who is in some inaccessible European league - he is a guy who can’t crack an MLS lineup.  In that context being an unknown factor isn’t a cause for heightened expectations - at least for me. 

[narduch]

Zouhir basically had his playing time usurped by Kone.

This thread got me thinking about Lucas Dias. Feels like he hasn't progressed this year. Unless I'm wrong.

[InglewoodJack]

Zouhir just turned 19, got burned by Kone's rise, and now plays for a team that lost two excellent midfielders during the offseason with ownership that has not shown much interest in shoring up the midfield with big acquisitions, so Zouhir is in an excellent spot to get his reps in and take a big step in the right direction this year. He just turned 19, and at the start of this season, he'll be 6 months younger than Kone was when he got his debut- he's still super young, and already has 12 pro caps to his name.

It was extremely tough to find playing time for Zouhir last year. How many MLS teams had a better midfield than Montreal? We had Mihailovic, Wanyama, Kone, Piette, with AJ and Lappalainen playing pretty forward often. Tough crowd to stick out from. This year looks really bad for Montreal, so if there's a time to play him, it'll be now.

[dyslexic nam]

11 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Zouhir just turned 19, got burned by Kone's rise, and now plays for a team that lost two excellent midfielders during the offseason with ownership that has not shown much interest in shoring up the midfield with big acquisitions, so Zouhir is in an excellent spot to get his reps in and take a big step in the right direction this year. He just turned 19, and at the start of this season, he'll be 6 months younger than Kone was when he got his debut- he's still super young, and already has 12 pro caps to his name.

It was extremely tough to find playing time for Zouhir last year. How many MLS teams had a better midfield than Montreal? We had Mihailovic, Wanyama, Kone, Piette, with AJ and Lappalainen playing pretty forward often. Tough crowd to stick out from. This year looks really bad for Montreal, so if there's a time to play him, it'll be now.

I like that generous interpretation and hope you are right.   Despite being critical at times I am definitely rooting for every single 🇨🇦 player to excel.  

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I tend to look at it the opposite way. The fact that we know relatively little about Zouhir is directly related to the fact that he couldn’t get on the pitch for CFM.  This isn’t some kid who is in some inaccessible European league - he is a guy who can’t crack an MLS lineup.  In that context being an unknown factor isn’t a cause for heightened expectations - at least for me. 

Objectively, I 100% see what youre saying and agree. From a bias perspective, I feel like i know more about nelsons ability compared to zouhir. Zouhir gets the benefit of the doubt for the reasons inglewood says. Furthermore, some players will go from 0 to 100 in 1 season (kone) as they just needed time to adapt to mens league, where as a guy like nelson has been improving every year at a slower rate. The blind optimism in me, says that zouhir will have a 0 to 80 rise this year instead of a 0 to 20. Unlikely, but because hes relatively unknown, he has a greater chance for a metoric rise compared to nelson. 

[Bigandy]

Updating my prospect list for 2024
1. LDF
1B. Koleosho - think hes lost
2. Jebbo 
3. Sigur - I think theres hope still
4. Corbeanu
5. Nelson
6. Stefanovic
7. JKL 
8. Ali
9. Saliba
10. Sali 

Missing: JMR, Smith, dias, costa, Jrr, Tahid, Nimick, Michel, zouhir, colyn. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

Updating my prospect list for 2024
1. LDF
1B. Koleosho - think hes lost
2. Jebbo 
3. Sigur - I think theres hope still
4. Corbeanu
5. Nelson
6. Stefanovic
7. JKL 
8. Ali
9. Saliba
10. Sali 

Missing: JMR, Smith, dias, costa, Jrr, Tahid, Nimick, Michel, zouhir, colyn. 

 

We may need some kind of rubric that cross references pure skill/potential with the likelihood they actually suit up for us.  That would let me precisely determine the amount of emotional investment I should make. 

[Bison44]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

 

We may need some kind of rubric that cross references pure skill/potential with the likelihood they actually suit up for us.  That would let me precisely determine the amount of emotional investment I should make. 

You have been around long enough to put almost zero investment into guys with track record with other countries programs.  Maybe on a santas wish list eh?  This was always my problem with Akinola, not that I had any dislike for the guy...but hard to get excited about someone when he has another countries shirt on.   You wouldnt list someone with almost chance of having the skill to be a top prospect, why list guys with almost no chance of being CDN??  

[dyslexic nam]

47 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

You have been around long enough to put almost zero investment into guys with track record with other countries programs.  Maybe on a santas wish list eh?  This was always my problem with Akinola, not that I had any dislike for the guy...but hard to get excited about someone when he has another countries shirt on.   You wouldnt list someone with almost chance of having the skill to be a top prospect, why list guys with almost no chance of being CDN??  

Interesting example though - Akinola was pretty much considered gone at one point if I remember correctly.  

But yes, I would like to avoid unnecessary emotional investment in a lost cause.  Just ask my cat. 

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

 

We may need some kind of rubric that cross references pure skill/potential with the likelihood they actually suit up for us.  That would let me precisely determine the amount of emotional investment I should make. 

Good points - which is why I have koleosho as a 1B because he doenst count in the top 10 but I couldnt ignore him fully

Sigur is someone i have hope for but see why many others dont. 

I think we get sali and jebbo. 

So my list is really just sigur whos not someone we can invest in IMO.

[Dominic94]

Let’s not forget that a year from now we will talk about someone who is yet to emerge. 
 

crazy but JMR is only 19

Edited December 15, 2023 by Dominic94