Canada announces preliminary roster for Gold Cup

[jpg75]

Please, the best player of the last 15 years is Tomasz Radzinski.

[madmonte]

Nice try, but you don't hear the same criticisms spoken of players such as Josh Simpson, Tomasz Radzinski or Atiba Hutchinson - players who try and create, but also have the awareness to lay the ball off when appropriate. And as far as i'm concerned, the only time DeRo gets himself into trouble is when he plays centrally and becomes a ball hog, putting his head down and trying to dribble his way through multiple defenders to the net. When he's out on the wing he gets 1v1 situations which allows him more space and also seems to make him more willing to lay the ball off to an oncoming central midfielder.

From what I saw of Keven Aleman in the Canada youth squads (who is one of my favorite prospects, by the way) he needs to be trained out of a tendency to do this same sort of thing.

[jpg75]

From what I saw of Keven Aleman in the Canada youth squads (who is one of my favorite prospects, by the way) he needs to be trained out of a tendency to do this same sort of thing.

Funny, but i was going to add another sentence mentioning Aleman (the next DeRo) and his propensity for being a turnover machine against better opposition and decided not to at the risk of sounding like a negative nelly. Astute observation madmonte. Aleman, like Dero, seems to prey on weaker defenders and will dribble the **** out of the ball and forget about his teammates. Unfortunately when you get savvy defenders like the Uruguayans were they just back off a bit, watch for the ball to be exposed and tackle at the right time. Hopefully his time in Spain will work this deficiency out of his game (something that the Canadian youth game seems to allow strong players to get into their game - because of poor competition and weakly skilled teammates).

edit: And just to add, i would like to see Keven Aleman switched away from being a #10 to preferably a striker in a 2-forward formation. His ball skills and nose for goal would make him and Cavallini a dangerous combination up top.

[ag futbol]

Nice try, but you don't hear the same criticisms spoken of players such as Josh Simpson, Tomasz Radzinski or Atiba Hutchinson - players who try and create, but also have the awareness to lay the ball off when appropriate. And as far as i'm concerned, the only time DeRo gets himself into trouble is when he plays centrally and becomes a ball hog, putting his head down and trying to dribble his way through multiple defenders to the net. When he's out on the wing he gets 1v1 situations which allows him more space and also seems to make him more willing to lay the ball off to an oncoming central midfielder.

These comparisons are unfair. Nobody out there is relying on Hutchinson for creativity. He can be described as box-to-box yes, but it is mostly to cover ground, be the outlet for the simple pass. He does not facilitate or take on defenders in a way you’d expect someone in a free role like Dero to. Simpson and Radz: closer to the point, but they’ll still have more restrictions on their roles than an out-and-out creator would in the middle.

Yes Dero holds onto the ball more than warranted, byproduct of being the best player on bad teams for too long where you can’t trust teammates or count on people to be in the right spots. But I refuse to let that creativity out of our roster so easily when so few players we have can provide any of it. And to be frank: Canada in certain respects could be described as one of those bad teams as well.

The problem is most of our players are on clubs where other people provide the creativity and invention. You put them together on our national team and they are all looking at each other wondering where that other guy is. There’s just not enough versatility. You shut down the one or two creative catalysts on this team and we are roundly roasted.

[Gordon]

Funny, but i was going to add another sentence mentioning Aleman (the next DeRo) and his propensity for being a turnover machine against better opposition and decided not to at the risk of sounding like a negative nelly. Astute observation madmonte. Aleman, like Dero, seems to prey on weaker defenders and will dribble the **** out of the ball and forget about his teammates. Unfortunately when you get savvy defenders like the Uruguayans were they just back off a bit, watch for the ball to be exposed and tackle at the right time. Hopefully his time in Spain will work this deficiency out of his game (something that the Canadian youth game seems to allow strong players to get into their game - because of poor competition and weakly skilled teammates).

edit: And just to add, i would like to see Keven Aleman switched away from being a #10 to preferably a striker in a 2-forward formation. His ball skills and nose for goal would make him and Cavallini a dangerous combination up top.

Aleman is what 18? 19? and as you say, in training in Spain a country that seems to know a thing or two about developing young players. If he is still doing this stuff at 22-34 the comparison would be more apt. Aleman has choosen a different trajectory than DeRo so it will be interesting to see how it turns out. I agree with Griz that, from a purely developmental perspective, DeRo has made a lot of questionable decisions. They may well have been best for him in terms of family, security and social needs, but there were better paths available to him in term sof developing his game. Even still, DeRo not have made (as indeed, may be the case for Aleman) it had he chosen the better alternative, and at a certain age, family, security and social needs do become paramount when you are not upper eschelon in your profession.

[canucklefan]

Funny, but i was going to add another sentence mentioning Aleman (the next DeRo) and his propensity for being a turnover machine against better opposition and decided not to at the risk of sounding like a negative nelly. Astute observation madmonte. Aleman, like Dero, seems to prey on weaker defenders and will dribble the **** out of the ball and forget about his teammates. Unfortunately when you get savvy defenders like the Uruguayans were they just back off a bit, watch for the ball to be exposed and tackle at the right time. Hopefully his time in Spain will work this deficiency out of his game (something that the Canadian youth game seems to allow strong players to get into their game - because of poor competition and weakly skilled teammates).

edit: And just to add, i would like to see Keven Aleman switched away from being a #10 to preferably a striker in a 2-forward formation. His ball skills and nose for goal would make him and Cavallini a dangerous combination up top.

This deserves (and post #200) the award for post of the day. Couldn't have said it better.

[jpg75]

These comparisons are unfair. Nobody out there is relying on Hutchinson for creativity. He can be described as box-to-box yes, but it is mostly to cover ground, be the outlet for the simple pass. He does not facilitate or take on defenders in a way you’d expect someone in a free role like Dero to. Simpson and Radz: closer to the point, but they’ll still have more restrictions on their roles than an out-and-out creator would in the middle.

I don't think they are unfair. Hutchinson has been playing as an attacking central mid (alongside Johnson) in a 4-1-4-1 for us for going on at least a year now. He dribbles well in close spaces to maintain possession and has a greater awareness of imminent danger and knowing when to pass. Radz spent almost his entire career as a striker, and when playing for Canada typically withdrew towards the midfield to receive the ball and lay off to his midfielders. It's only late in his career that he was moved to the wing (and in his last game vs. Mexico played as a striker alongside Gerba and was awesome). Simpson is obviously not a direct comparison, so i'll give you that.

[jpg75]

I'd also like to point out that DeRo isn't the only attacking player (or any type of player that for that matter) that gets crapped on regularly on this board. Tosaint Ricketts has been getting crapped on lately for his lack of ball skills (rightfully so), Rob Friend is a whipping boy for a few people on here, Iain Hume for all his guts and glory has been ripped by me for years for his absolute lack of ball control and tendency to give the ball away cheaply as if he were playing in League One and not Central America. Carlo Corrazin used to get ripped for running as fast as a turtle, Pesch in his later years was about as strong on the ball as a 90 year old hip replacement patient. And on and on....

[Tarrius]

De Rosario just scored a hat trick for DC United as they beat the Union in the US Open Cup.

While I agree that we need to gradually move on from the majority of the squad involved in WCQ, we still need players like DeRo playing in the starting 11. He brings experience, flair, and seems to be one of the few current players we have who can score. (Albeit, a lot were from the penalty spot lately...but at least he makes offensive minded attacks regularly, something we are desperately lacking)... I'll be surprised, however, if he starts against Martinique. We should definitely plays Aleman and Aird against that type of opposition.

Anyways, I don't know about you guys, but I'm very excited to see Cavalinni play after his impressive numbers in the Uruguyan top flight. (Only 20 years old!) Can't wait to see how he pans out.

[Gian-Luca]

I'd also like to point out that DeRo isn't the only attacking player (or any type of player that for that matter) that gets crapped on regularly on this board.

All of our players get crapped on regularly on this board - we are a fansite after all......

[BearcatSA]

All of our players get crapped on regularly on this board - we are a fansite after all......

But some a lot more than others, but yeah, such is the nature of a fansite.

[Soju]

Please, the best player of the last 15 years is Tomasz Radzinski.

Word. Radz was a certified star in the premier league before his move to Fulham. No other Canadian comes close.

[El Hombre]

I'd also like to point out that DeRo isn't the only attacking player (or any type of player that for that matter) that gets crapped on regularly on this board. Tosaint Ricketts has been getting crapped on lately for his lack of ball skills (rightfully so), Rob Friend is a whipping boy for a few people on here, Iain Hume for all his guts and glory has been ripped by me for years for his absolute lack of ball control and tendency to give the ball away cheaply as if he were playing in League One and not Central America. Carlo Corrazin used to get ripped for running as fast as a turtle, Pesch in his later years was about as strong on the ball as a 90 year old hip replacement patient. And on and on....

The difference though is that all those players you mention get crapped on because of a general lack of skill, in some form. When criticism is levelled at DeRo, it will vascillate between perceived flaws in his game and perceived flaws in his character. That's what makes the criticism of DeRo on this board unique. DeGuzman is the only other player that seems to receive that treatment on a regular basis.

Also, the discussion between the relative merits of Hutchinson and De Rosario is funny. Personally, I agree that Hutchinson is the better player however given that the conversation is taking place means that De Rosario is not horrible, and thus probably still has a role on this team in some capacity, which is what started the entire discussion.

[Obinna]

I have to agree that Radz in his prime was more valuable than dero in his prime. The problem is we need more offensive minded "go-to" players on the NT. I agree with the comment that we have too many "supporting" players in our team. Put them all together and they are all looking at each other to make something happen. Even hutchinson (for all his talent) falls into this category. He has all the tools to offensively take over games for us but is either too passive or not selfish enough going forward. This is why we need players like dero and Aleman and REB in the squad. You can criticize them all you want for being ball hogs or lack of final product or whatever but instead of discussing the negatives (which we all know) i challenge you to show me a player who is a better option.

[Obinna]

The difference though is that all those players you mention get crapped on because of a general lack of skill, in some form. When criticism is levelled at DeRo, it will vascillate between perceived flaws in his game and perceived flaws in his character. That's what makes the criticism of DeRo on this board unique. DeGuzman is the only other player that seems to receive that treatment on a regular basis.

Also, the discussion between the relative merits of Hutchinson and De Rosario is funny. Personally, I agree that Hutchinson is the better player however given that the conversation is taking place means that De Rosario is not horrible, and thus probably still has a role on this team in some capacity, which is what started the entire discussion.

Yeah +1 for this post. I support criticism of our players on this fourm but all players should be judged equally. How anyone could make an argument that dero does not belong in the GC squad is beyond me. One argument that really gets under my skin is that "he is too old". Are you kidding me? You actually want to drop derosario because of his age when he is one of the only players willing or able to provide a threat going forward? Yes we should be calling a young squad but you always include some veteran guys with the group and that absolutely has to include a guy capable of creating offense (this is Canada after all). I fear for this team the day DeRo retires but at least I will get a few chuckles in at the people who never wanted him included, as they contemplate why the team cannot score from open play.

[Lord Bob]

The difference though is that all those players you mention get crapped on because of a general lack of skill, in some form. When criticism is levelled at DeRo, it will vascillate between perceived flaws in his game and perceived flaws in his character. That's what makes the criticism of DeRo on this board unique.

I'm not sure what the real difference is between criticizing one player for a "lack of skill" and criticizing MeRo for "flaws in his game".

(Of course DeRo and de Guzman get the biggest criticism for their character these days; that's because they have poor character.)

[El Hombre]

I'm not sure what the real difference is between criticizing one player for a "lack of skill" and criticizing MeRo for "flaws in his game".

There is no difference. The difference I was trying to highlight is that on top of criticism of lack of skill/flaws in his game, he also receives criticism about his character. All the players JPG mentioned don't get the same treatment, or at least not to the same extent. That's what I was trying to say. Apologies.

[Marc]

The difference though is that all those players you mention get crapped on because of a general lack of skill, in some form. When criticism is levelled at DeRo, it will vascillate between perceived flaws in his game and perceived flaws in his character. That's what makes the criticism of DeRo on this board unique. DeGuzman is the only other player that seems to receive that treatment on a regular basis.

Because the actions and in some cases words of DeGuzman and DeRo invite that criticism. Radz and Pesch got similar character criticism way back too, although it was slightly more muted because their club careers were in Europe and didn't have the same domestic spotlight. It's not unique to DeRo and DeGuz.

[ag futbol]

I don't think they are unfair. Hutchinson has been playing as an attacking central mid (alongside Johnson) in a 4-1-4-1 for us for going on at least a year now. He dribbles well in close spaces to maintain possession and has a greater awareness of imminent danger and knowing when to pass. Radz spent almost his entire career as a striker, and when playing for Canada typically withdrew towards the midfield to receive the ball and lay off to his midfielders. It's only late in his career that he was moved to the wing (and in his last game vs. Mexico played as a striker alongside Gerba and was awesome). Simpson is obviously not a direct comparison, so i'll give you that.

He can certainly keep things going well enough, but in his role with Canada Hutchinson been box-to-box at best, never an out-and-out attacker. Any midfield needs players like Hutchinson and Johnson, but it can't survive on these types of players alone. Both these guys are balanced out by more creative players at club level. I've never seen them in a game for Canada where they actually took the game by the balls and wanted to be "the guy" in the midfield. Not every team needs a player in that role, but on Canada where most of our players offer absolutely nothing going forward we badly need someone who is assertive and isn't simply going to defer or make the safe play. Creativity by committee doesn't work for us because most of our players are devoid of it.

[El Hombre]

Because the actions and in some cases words of DeGuzman and DeRo invite that criticism.

That's an opinion which is debatable.

Radz and Pesch got similar character criticism way back too, although it was slightly more muted because their club careers were in Europe and didn't have the same domestic spotlight. It's not unique to DeRo and DeGuz.

True, I was just trying to highlight the difference between DeRo (and by correlation DeGuz) and the people JPG listed. As for Radz, any criticism levelled at him early in his career certainly wasn't held against him towards his later years with the MNT and I think it is unique to DeRo and DeGuz in the last 10 years.

[grigorio]

blah blah blah... what we NEED is Ali Gerba. The only man in the last 5 years who has shown he can actually score for the CMNT with an absurdly high strike-rate. The harsh reality that we're all too scared to admit The man who scored both game winning goals in the 2009 Gold Cup. The man who scored against Mexico and set up the other.

[narduch]

Is it safe to assume that Gerba is retired? Seems like an awful long time to go without playing anywhere of note.

[grigorio]

Is it safe to assume that Gerba is retired? Seems like an awful long time to go without playing anywhere of note.

I would imagine so, which honestly seems a little harsh. I know he had contract issues with IMFC that didn't allow him to play elsewhere, and they didn't play him either (or something like that), but others would know more about that on here.

[Grizzly]

Yeah +1 for this post. I support criticism of our players on this fourm but all players should be judged equally. How anyone could make an argument that dero does not belong in the GC squad is beyond me. One argument that really gets under my skin is that "he is too old". Are you kidding me? You actually want to drop derosario because of his age when he is one of the only players willing or able to provide a threat going forward? Yes we should be calling a young squad but you always include some veteran guys with the group and that absolutely has to include a guy capable of creating offense (this is Canada after all). I fear for this team the day DeRo retires but at least I will get a few chuckles in at the people who never wanted him included, as they contemplate why the team cannot score from open play.

As they contemplate why the team cannot score from open play? We don't have to wait for DeRo's retirement to contemplate why we do not score from open play because we do not score from open play now. DeRo does not score from open play for Canada and the team as a whole does not score from open play with him in the lineup. If we did his flaws would be forgiven. If he produced like he does in MLS he wouldn't receive the criticism he does.

[Grizzly]

Is it safe to assume that Gerba is retired? Seems like an awful long time to go without playing anywhere of note.

If he has kept himself in shape possibly he might make a comeback with Ottawa since he and Dos Santos had a very good relationship. However, I agree it has been a long time since he has played and he was not always in the best of shape even when he was playing.